Anaxie's Totally Revolutionary SoO Retribution T16 BiS & Theorycraft

[anaxie]

I'm not following ret stuff as much as you other guys, but I am ret and making AW 2min baseline sounds amazing to me. Plus getting the buff to our seals while we still use the 4pc. I predict 2Pc t14 + 2Pc t15 will be better than 4pc tier14, but I am no expert. (not even close )

Yes it will be. Currenlty it was looking like 4set until 4 set would be way to go. Now well. WIth how op our 4 set is we should be #1 to swap since our current 4 set just got gutted. heh.

Tell your raid leaders. Need mai conqu!

---------- Post added 2013-02-20 at 01:03 AM ----------

However, in case it wasn't obvious, these were all single-target changes. We haven't completed AE, healing or tanking changes. Healing or tanking numbers look pretty solid overall though, so don't expect much change there. (And feel free to disagree, but please provide some kind of evidence to back it up.)

Sounds like we may get a divine storm buff too. Cross them fingers.

[Natureseer]

We like our recent change to a lower cooldown on Avenging Wrath for Retribution in PvP. We like it so much that we want to make it a baseline change for Retribution and not a set bonus, since many PvE paladins are benefiting from shorter wings today, and our recent DPS testing suggests that Ret needs a DPS buff. However, this does mean changing the existing T14 4pc PvE bonus.

So the list of changes reads like this:
- Retribution has a two minute cooldown on Avenging Wrath baseline.
- We are reverting the PvP set bonus change. The Retribution set bonuses remain as they are on live. This line will no longer appear in patch notes.
- We are changing the T14 4pc PvE bonus to +10% damage on Seals and Judgment. We want you to graduate to the T15 set bonus fairly quickly and you won't be losing the shorter Avenging Wrath cooldown.

yay! i knew i could count on blizz hehe

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

no ptr threads up on EU yet so can't copy/paste yet, I'll do my part to be heard.

[Reith]

Yes it will be. Currenlty it was looking like 4set until 4 set would be way to go. Now well. WIth how op our 4 set is we should be #1 to swap since our current 4 set just got gutted. heh.

Tell your raid leaders. Need mai conqu!

---------- Post added 2013-02-20 at 01:03 AM ----------



Sounds like we may get a divine storm buff too. Cross them fingers.

I'm going to be testing those changes as soon as they come out. Do they have those raid buffing dummies anywhere on the PTR?

[Snuzzfizzle]

We're not seeing Ret DPS below where we want it on live, except on AE or cleave fights, which these changes aren't targeted to correct.

Either that means our scaling is so good that the sheer increase of ilvl will put us on par with the other melees or we're supposed to be behind 5-10% behind warriors or dks.

[isadorr]

First top 20 guilds will likely be all trolls rolling a horde comp so ret is out by default for factors not even related to class balance. Secondly if ret survived T11 which was a worse situation then we are in right now i doubt the class is going anywhere. You are making mountains out of molehills at this point huntingbear.

as a small note being a paladin since TBC vs being a paladin since naxx who STARTED ret in T11 midtier is a far different scenario. You see to deal with the classes shortcomings in BC and come out viable and to say the class is unviable and not raid viable now is nothing but an insult.

PvE ret is in a far better place it has ever been. We only need a 5% or so sustained bump, some aoe love, and maybe a unique raid cd more iconic then the basic devotion aura. Auras are a staple of paladins and a mastery 10 second raid aura would be quite acceptable.

Thats it. The class isn't even that far behind.

And you are worried about some retarded hydra boss with some fixate and aoe zone mechanics. That shit is childs play and one of the most basic gameplay elements in raiding.

I dont know what numbers you look at or is you use raidbot but from what i have personally experienced ret is farther behind than 5%. We had both our ret go holy because why gear a ret when you can gear a dk or warrior? I have heard this before but when i looked at that guilds logs their dps wasnt exactly the best and i havent seen any ret in the high rankings. I dont know maybe i am missing something.

I am asking because we have two holy pallies who had been ret since tbc but their dps wasnt close to the other dps asking about going back to ret. I am more likely to let them leave from the dps i have seen on live and on PTR from ret pallies. We have the extra heals and they have been applying to other guilds but their isnt the interest in ret even at 510ivl. I am guessing if the numbers stay the same on the PTR, they will either stay holy or keep applying to guilds. Odd, that from what people say on here they are going to compete and i dont see it from the testing we have done normal and heroic on live and the PTR.

[anaxie]

I dont know what numbers you look at or is you use raidbot but from what i have personally experienced ret is farther behind than 5%. We had both our ret go holy because why gear a ret when you can gear a dk or warrior? I have heard this before but when i looked at that guilds logs their dps wasnt exactly the best and i havent seen any ret in the high rankings. I dont know maybe i am missing something.

I am asking because we have two holy pallies who had been ret since tbc but their dps wasnt close to the other dps asking about going back to ret. I am more likely to let them leave from the dps i have seen on live and on PTR from ret pallies. We have the extra heals and they have been applying to other guilds but their isnt the interest in ret even at 510ivl. I am guessing if the numbers stay the same on the PTR, they will either stay holy or keep applying to guilds. Odd, that from what people say on here they are going to compete and i dont see it from the testing we have done normal and heroic on live and the PTR.

What do you expect? bairdy doesnt have a sha touched weapon. No shit his damage is behind.

If you are talking about any add based fights. What exactly do you expect? Single target isn't suffering and GC just admitted our aoe was dogshit today and AOE tuning is going to happen shortly. If we get some umph into our aoe rotation we should be set. Especially if in the tuning they nuke the shit out of HB aoe damage. Then 2 set indirectly increases our aoe already from the next tier. and 4 set is a great additon. But then the majority of rets power has always come from tier sets <hello stormadins in iCC , Hello DS, Hello... Hammeridins? Thankfully wings are baseline now so our rotation stays same as live.

[isadorr]

What do you expect? bairdy doesnt have a sha touched weapon. No shit his damage is behind.

Suprising you dont know this but raid leaders and Gm's of progression guilds talk/bullshit about changes, classes specs on how to build the next raid team. I am not taking what i said from my own perspective alone. The others who are holy were also trying out ret and go off weapons while they were healing, we had them dpsing on the ptr with sha-touched weapons. Even with arcane nerfed, afflic,dk, and warriors were stil far ahead and 2 of our mages played fire and were still ahead.

Im not putting anything down but i can tell you that it isnt just one guild or raid leader of good progression guilds thinking of dumping ret altogether especially with dk buffs. It is about numbers right?

[anaxie]

Suprising you dont know this but raid leaders and Gm's of progression guilds talk/bullshit about changes, classes specs on how to build the next raid team. I am not taking what i said from my own perspective alone. The others who are holy were also trying out ret and go off weapons while they were healing, we had them dpsing on the ptr with sha-touched weapons. Even with arcane nerfed, afflic,dk, and warriors were stil far ahead and 2 of our mages played fire and were still ahead.

Im not putting anything down but i can tell you that it isnt just one guild or raid leader of good progression guilds thinking of dumping ret altogether especially with dk buffs. It is about numbers right?

From what i can tell your rets are just bad. Blade lord is one of the few fights where guild strats don't really affect dps as much as other fights / padding and on this log

Incarnate http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/b...?s=2908&e=3300
ER http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/a...?s=4567&e=4955

Even with everyone leaving too early and the tank soling 1% of the bosses hp while I played with my dick for 20 seconds until he ran for the last 10% burn I still did 90k+ dps. It looks more like a case of just bad ret paladins. But then again. This is my log. Ill check more.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=1177&e=1561

Even one fight where I died from 14%-10% going too fast and the slip stream sling shotting me and missing my final dps burst which u can see in the 90K+ log I still dominate most of your rets without the final guardian + wings stack burst AND while my dot slowly ticks on boss raping my dps by default.

This is another log from like a month + ago of garajal where i stayed up the entire duration and got 130k
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=12783&e=13135

Since we skip msv because well.... who the hell needs shards? I have no recent log despite well... alot more gear so 130k would be higher.
Looking at your most recent garajal its like what... 100k dps rets?
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=2299&e=2538

Feng is another good example however the adds and duration of shield phase can skew it.

Incarnate http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=11718&e=12066
ER http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=1627&e=1942

I cannot remember when i got axe but even then I would of been very competitive within ur raid with those numbers.

Stone guard is irrelevent since I enjoy running tiles so bleh.

[isadorr]

From what i can tell your rets are just bad. Blade lord is one of the few fights where guild strats don't really affect dps as much as other fights / padding and on this log

Incarnate http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/b...?s=2908&e=3300
ER http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/a...?s=4567&e=4955

Even with everyone leaving too early and the tank soling 1% of the bosses hp so he ran for the last 10% burn I still did 90k+ dps. It looks more like a case of just bad ret paladins. But then again. This is my log. Ill check more.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=1177&e=1561

Even one fight where I died from 14%-10% going too fast and the slip stream sling shotting me and missing my final dps burst which u can see in the 90K+ log I still dominate most of your rets without the final guardian + wings stack burst AND while my dot slowly ticks on boss raping my dps by default.

We have had rets in the guild for a while but my point is that it is hard to gear up a spec when you could possibly gear another spec that will do more dps. Not that one class is bad but gearing another would be more dps and hopefully more progression. I know some of the ret were trying new things in our runs since not everyone is raiding right now but i couldnt tell you what it was.

At the beginning of each tier, you look at what will be strong and possibly OP, gear them and with dk's along with warriors it is hard gearing a ret in between all that.Warriors scale like crazy and Dk's got a lot of love this patch, and it doesnt help that holy was so strong.

[anaxie]

Rets bullshit about changes and guilds too btw and an inside joke is how bad the top ranked world / US guilds ret paladins are. I think vodka had the only half decent paladins forever.

We know who the quality rets are and we are quite aware that the number of quality rets who play this game and are consistent are roughly 50 or less players.

---------- Post added 2013-02-20 at 03:22 AM ----------

We have had rets in the guild for a while but my point is that it is hard to gear up a spec when you could possibly gear another spec that will do more dps. Not that one class is bad but gearing another would be more dps and hopefully more progression. I know some of the ret were trying new things in our runs since not everyone is raiding right now but i couldnt tell you what it was.

At the beginning of each tier, you look at what will be strong and possibly OP, gear them and with dk's along with warriors it is hard gearing a ret in between all that.Warriors scale like crazy and Dk's got a lot of love this patch, and it doesnt help that holy was so strong.

Hey to each their own. I don't have to fight for my position I'm more then capable of beating other classes unless it's heavy aoe based. Unless of course I was horde in a troll raid in 5.2 Fuck that shit.

[Butosai]

Rets bullshit about changes and guilds too btw and an inside joke is how bad the top ranked world / US guilds ret paladins are. I think vodka had the only half decent paladins forever.

We know who the quality rets are and we are quite aware that the number of quality rets who play this game and are consistent are roughly 50 or less players.

---------- Post added 2013-02-20 at 03:22 AM ----------



Hey to each their own. I don't have to fight for my position I'm more then capable of beating other classes unless it's heavy aoe based. Unless of course I was horde in a troll raid in 5.2 Fuck that shit.

huehuehue... -builds anaxie a bench-

[anaxie]

huehuehue... -builds anaxie a bench-

Better fix your windows 98 before patch or you get to grind the bench.

[Ulmita]

Paladin
- We like our recent change to a lower cooldown on Avenging Wrath for Retribution in PvP. We like it so much that we want to make it a baseline change for Retribution and not a set bonus, since many PvE paladins are benefiting from shorter wings today, and our recent DPS testing suggests that Ret needs a DPS buff. However, this does mean changing the existing T14 4pc PvE bonus.

So the list of changes reads like this:
- Retribution has a two minute cooldown on Avenging Wrath baseline.
- We are reverting the PvP set bonus change. The Retribution set bonuses remain as they are on live. This line will no longer appear in patch notes.
- We are changing the T14 4pc PvE bonus to +10% damage on Seals and Judgment. We want you to graduate to the T15 set bonus fairly quickly and you won't be losing the shorter Avenging Wrath cooldown.

Strawberries, chocolate and wine poor from the heavens.

Source: http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/2...sues-part-iii/

[anaxie]

You are 2 pages too late

[cidic]

I took 2 of the ideas you have Anaxie (TV 1% stacking to 5% total and 5% 2h increase) I posted on the thread. I agree with pretty much all of the changes you suggested I just like those 2 the most. (that's me however)

[anaxie]

It helps if we can have a focused voice for a specific buff we are more likely to get it. Random ass rets chiming in with dumbass comments only stirs the pot and gets us nowhere. Case and point the T15 4 set change. Our singular voice got that pos fixed instantly.

[cidic]

It helps if we can have a focused voice for a specific buff we are more likely to get it. Random ass rets chiming in with dumbass comments only stirs the pot and gets us nowhere. Case and point the T15 4 set change. Our singular voice got that pos fixed instantly.

That I agree on fully. Which is why I took 2 of the ones you suggested (which I though all of them were good ideas) and used them as well. I keep up with reading the ptr and at times the paladin official forums but there are so many people talking about do this and do that and everyone has something different to say that it just does not help things.

[Runewrath]

Mimic'd anaxie's post to hopefully get more interest. I personally like the mastery change so we have to actually think about gemming/reforging.

[anaxie]

I do too and it is perfect sustained and execute range damage gains because CS and TV are our bread n butter.

Anyone who wants to push for a sustained buff try to stick the the Mastery scaling increase. It is overall the best sustained buff we could get and makes scaling so much better in the long run and damage spreads.

Plus if we get it the synergy with our new tier set is redic... hehe

Look on bright side tho. majority of our tiers sets usually turn baseline. Maybe Holy tv procs or Holy damage debuff will get recycled and rolled into ret for the final tier. lol........ it's prolly gonna happen