Anaxie's Totally Revolutionary SoO Retribution T16 BiS & Theorycraft

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Reason why Primordius's Talisman of Rage is considered better is because it doesn't have a stupid ramp up time, which makes it work nicely for pulls with hero and cds. Other reasons, primordius might proc when you're not going to hit anything. Example Lei Shen or any other fight with huge breaks in combat, Primordius's Talisman of Rage is also great because it's more or less equal to weapon enchant (with the possibility to be far stronger) which on fights with no clear "burst phases" is going to make it strong.
IMO the thing that makes Talisman so strong is because spark is so weak.

[Colmadero]

at 15k haste (roughly) a heroic thunderforged spark gets really strong, you'll 90% of the time see it go above 3 stacks on pull (I most of the time get it to 5 and in some cases 5stacks for over a minute) which is a huge gain over spark. Spark isn't "bad" but it has a huge ramp up time which means if it doesn't proc on pull (which is when you have pot, cds and feather line up) and when it procs it can proc when you have nothing at all ready for it, iirc when I used spark it had roughly 1min 10sec ramp up time which ment it would line up with the second avening wrath if I was patient enough to wait for it. With Feather though I'd much rather wait for that to proc and use wings with that since it's better, the reason PToR is considered better is because it's a consistant boost, think of it like a beasted up wep enchant. It's just always up, even if it's "only" 1-2 stacks.
Most recent Tortos 25hc kill: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-fb...?s=1207&e=1564
356sec kill time.
225sec uptime on "rampage", PToR proc. 63% uptime.

I'm seeing in a lot of those logs that you only roll SoR... is that intended? I normally roll with SoJ 100% of the time...

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

I'm seeing in a lot of those logs that you only roll SoR... is that intended? I normally roll with SoJ 100% of the time...

Depends on which tanks we have, if we got monk tank to roll around with the bats we nuke Tortos all the way. If we kill the bats (warrior tanks them) then I aoe with SoR, simple as that :P

[Deleted]

don't look on the stats, they're just bumped up current itemization.

*edit*
oh wait they arent... well don't take them as set in stone anyways :P

At least there no 7.5% worth of Hit on them!!

[Deleted]

This is starting to get annoying... 10 LFR DA kills, 1 normal kill, 7 LFR twins kills. And still haven't seen either of them drop their tier token for me... this is the thing that currently holds me back the most, the lack of a 4P.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Put up a thread with all the gear pieces (tier pieces exluded) that will drop from SoO.
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post21795951

Since Anaxie is away for a while thought I'd do a early PTR list of gear at least.

[Fargus]

On boss pulls, do you use all your CDs right away, or wait for a feather proc? Which is better?

[Deleted]

On boss pulls, do you use all your CDs right away, or wait for a feather proc? Which is better?

usually, feather procs right away on pulls, so it's not really an issue. so just pop your CDs on pull.

[meq]

Hi, I'm sure this has been answered somewhere in this thread but I couldn't find it for all my digging .

Obviously feather is BiS and I'm sporting a HTF, but for the second trinket, is spark or primordius superior? do they sim close? or is it something I have to sim myself? I was under the impression it was trash but after revisiting this thread and seeing it on the BiS list I'm a little confuzzled

[mels]

Do we have a haste cap or a point where mastery/crit become more relevant than haste to our spec?

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Hi, I'm sure this has been answered somewhere in this thread but I couldn't find it for all my digging .

Obviously feather is BiS and I'm sporting a HTF, but for the second trinket, is spark or primordius superior? do they sim close? or is it something I have to sim myself? I was under the impression it was trash but after revisiting this thread and seeing it on the BiS list I'm a little confuzzled

Talisman has the benefit of having no CD and during heroism you have a very high chance of getting 5 stacks and maintaining them, if you're on a fight where you hero on pull then Talisman is much better. That said the difference isn't going to make or break you, fights where you have huge breaks in combat (like Lei Shen) spark might proc as you go into that phase and waste all of its stacks or you're on high stacks and the 1min stacking part falls off. On a dummy style fight the difference isn't huge, if anything spark pulls ahead because you can use CDs with spark release. On the other hand Talisman provides a more or less a constant damage increase (I get 60% uptime on average) consider talisman a beefed up weapon enchant, while it might not be as strong for burst (outside heroism and cds) but it's nearly always up which is awesome for adds and everything.

In short, if you feel that your spark procs at bad times in fights (like lei shen) try using Talisman instead.

- - - Updated - - -

Do we have a haste cap or a point where mastery/crit become more relevant than haste to our spec?

estimated around 21-22k that we're at the "limit" that haste is significantly valuable, in 5.4 we get access to a trinket that (at normal, non valor, non "TF") increases our haste rating by 14% which means we need less haste for that range. For this tier you can't get to the point where haste isn't as valuable, next tier however around 18k haste rating (asuming you have the stat amplification trinket) should be your ideal target. After that you'd go full mastery, crit isn't bad but it's not a constant (meaning reliable) damage increase which mastery is.

Here's a list of all the trinkets and non tier gear that is relevant for retribution next tier, http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...T16-items-list

[Jakerel]

So I've been trying to get Talisman for weeks now, we had a TF one drop last week, but some dick raider who already had normal version went batshit crazy with their unspent DKP for an 6ilvl upgrade. While doing LFR for Valor, I managed to get the 502 version, given that my Spark is only the normal non-TF version, is it worth dropping for the LFR Talisman, at least until I can get a normal or better one? Or is it not worth it with the vast difference in ilvl?

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Like I said above, the difference isn't going to be overwhelming. If you feel that your spark procs at bad times in fights (like lei shen) try using Talisman instead.
Talisman provides a higher sustained dps (on average) and Spark (if you get it to line up) provides more burst.

[Jakerel]

Like I said above, the difference isn't going to be overwhelming. If you feel that your spark procs at bad times in fights (like lei shen) try using Talisman instead.
Talisman provides a higher sustained dps (on average) and Spark (if you get it to line up) provides more burst.

OK, thanks. If thats the case, I'll just rock with both and chop and change depending.

[Footsz]

Do we have a haste cap or a point where mastery/crit become more relevant than haste to our spec?

To give you a big more exact numbers (also they haven't been posted so I figured I would),

Without the trinket for next tier to reach 50% haste (and a 1 second GCD), you would need 21250 haste. Next tier with the 14% trinket (assuming the percentage doesn't increase with item levels, which it probably will and we'll need to redo this part), you would need 18640.35 haste, which I'd probably just round up to 18641.

[Colmadero]

Which would be the next best trinket right after the flat haste amplifier? CD reducer or STR with Crit stacking?

[Alviarin]

At the moment, the Crit stacking one is ridiculously OP, but everyone's expecting a nerf.

[Colmadero]

I don't see how 23,500 crit for 15 seconds (considering it should take you around 5 seconds to build up all the hits) is OP in anyway

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Untill the stacking crit trinket gets nerfed consider it mandetory, you can't go without it.

[Lawkeeper]

Can anyone who tried Lei shen HC with DP(if theres anyone) tell me if its better then SW?i guess DP could be better if u are lucky with procs but i wanna hear smone who tried it...thanks