Anaxie's Totally Revolutionary SoO Retribution T16 BiS & Theorycraft

[anaxie]

Pretty significant post

Trinket, enchant, set bonus, and legendary meta-gem effects whose triggered effect benefits from haste no longer also have their chance to trigger the benefit from haste. Activation chances for those effects have been adjusted to compensate.

[Joeseidon]

Pretty significant post

So with these changes does haste only smooth out our rotation by lowering GCD's and CD's, or are there other benefits of haste I'm missing? Won't this push us towards mastery at lower levels of haste?

[shoeboy4]

Just hitting the dummys to see how much of a nerf it is feather wasnt proccing very much at all. ill run some logs in a bit and post em up here. The icds are now listed on the trinkets, amplification is 105cd, cooldown reduction one is 45sec cd, crit one has a .51ppm.

logs for the tests
here is the ptr log http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/7...8yz/details/0/

here is a log on live http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/e...47v/details/0/

[cremor]

Pretty significant post

Here is a longer post that explains the change in more detail:
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7860066979

[Revvo]

Just more reason to head for more mastery next patch.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

We're still going to want to be at around 16.5-18.5k haste (or wherever you feel comfortable with with your ms) to get close to a 3sec Crusader Strike.
The Stat Amplifying trinket just got a lot better with this change, with heroic+warforged and valor upgraded it's going to end up at what? 19/20% additional rating? say you somehow end up with 15k haste and 15k mastery (unbuffed) that's going to put you at around that 18k spot (heroic + warforged and valor upgrades) That is FAR FAR from impossible and you'll likely get closer to 16.5 to 17k mastery unbuffed in BiS gear without calculating the % amp trinket, how this all is going to work out for our numbers is questionable but the few of us that's been lucky enough on Primordius to get mastery buffs know how much it impacts our sustained dps.

Haven't had time to test the crit trinket in a few builds so I don't know where to place it at the moment but from what I've heard and seen on PTR the CD reducing stat and the % amp trinket is the strongest combo, I'm still not sold on using DP on single target fights. SW + huge mastery pool and HUGE avenging wrath uptime is looking so strong!

[unholyness]

Good thing we are looking at DP next patch so it should affect us even less and hurt classes who rely on it even more <locks, enh shamans, mages>

I have been watching BL,Method,Midwinter and other progression guilds on their stream. I am seeing their ret pally below the tank on damage with mages/lock raping a lot especially the cleave fights. With all of the Aoe and not being able to stand on the tank on some of the fights I have done, you think Ret will still be good next tier?

[shoeboy4]

Huntingbear in post 4007 i posted a 10min log of the crit trinket and it was fixed i think it was 2 builds ago. Here is that log again, the trinket went to a 15% uptime once fixed from an 85% uptime when it was broken

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/4...gui/details/5/

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

yeah and it should be even worse now with RPPM not scaling with haste, I'm fairly sure that the static bonuses on the CD reducing trinket and the %amp trinket is just gonna flat out beat the crit one which is RPPM based anyways.

[shoeboy4]

yea give me about 20min and ill post another 10min log with the crit one and ill throw it in this post

yea at 41.34% haste its uptime is even worse now here is the log http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/v...owb/details/0/

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

yea give me about 20min and ill post another 10min log with the crit one and ill throw it in this post

yea at 41.34% haste its uptime is even worse now here is the log http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/v...owb/details/0/

TBH in raids I wouldn't be surprised to see it at maybe 20% uptime but even at that rate it's not gonna match what the two other trinkets do for us.
I'm glad they fixed it though, I think it was a bit harsh but anyways... (think a reduction in the actual crit gained would be a better nerf than the uptime rate)

[Sett]

Yeah I understand that, but testing isn't even over yet. The fact that this happens just makes you realize more and more why top guilds and top raiders are burning out. Tier's over before it goes live.

They'd have another C'thun on their hands if they didn't do the testing though.

Every time I come to this thread I am in awe at how you guys do the math for this stuff.

[Skulldancer]

If mastery is now favored over Haste in 5.4 therefore Static Str. trinks are also favored?

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

If mastery is now favored over Haste in 5.4 therefore Static Str. trinks are also favored?

next tier you'll be using Evil Eye of Galakras + Thok's Tail Tip. , the passive effects of the trinkets are by far the best for us. Haste isn't going to be bad next tier, it's just going to reach the point where it's actually not a benefit anymore (16-18k haste depending on the ilvl of your Thok's Tail Tip trinket) and when you've hit that haste sweet spot mastery value shoots through the roof but until that haste is still very strong.

To put it in another way, haste is still best until it's no longer a benefit to you.
Say I go with 21k haste without Thok's Tail Tip next tier, as soon as I get that trinket I can go down couple thousand haste because the passive gives so much haste AND mastery (and crit, not that anyone cares).

[Skulldancer]

next tier you'll be using Evil Eye of Galakras + Thok's Tail Tip. , the passive effects of the trinkets are by far the best for us. Haste isn't going to be bad next tier, it's just going to reach the point where it's actually not a benefit anymore (16-18k haste depending on the ilvl of your Thok's Tail Tip trinket) and when you've hit that haste sweet spot mastery value shoots through the roof but until that haste is still very strong.

To put it in another way, haste is still best until it's no longer a benefit to you.
Say I go with 21k haste without Thok's Tail Tip next tier, as soon as I get that trinket I can go down couple thousand haste because the passive gives so much haste AND mastery (and crit, not that anyone cares).

So Thok's Tail Tip. LFR is basically better than all trinks currently but Feather?

[Juicy]

To put it in another way, haste is still best until it's no longer a benefit to you.
Say I go with 21k haste without Thok's Tail Tip next tier, as soon as I get that trinket I can go down couple thousand haste because the passive gives so much haste AND mastery (and crit, not that anyone cares).

It doesn't increase critical strike rating at all, it increases critical strike damage.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

So Thok's Tail Tip. LFR is basically better than all trinks currently but Feather?

Yes. Evil Eye is damn close to feather as well, depends on the fight. Sanctified Wrath + Evil Eye puts your Avenging Wrath up to around 35-50% uptime depending on the ilvl of the Evil Eye, trinkets next tier are out of this world... they kinda had to be to beat feather but they do, I'm so excited for next tier.

- - - Updated - - -

It doesn't increase critical strike rating at all, it increases critical strike damage.

ye that's what I meant, sorry for any confusion.

[Aceshigh]

They'd have another C'thun on their hands if they didn't do the testing though.

Every time I come to this thread I am in awe at how you guys do the math for this stuff.

Yeah I know, testing needs to be done. But the amount of testing these guys put in and the fact that they feel burnt out because of it is an issue for high end raiding. I think bosses going live bugged as fucked is TERRIBLE for the game so I'm glad they test. I just can't help but feel that testing these bosses is a big reason in the burnout of hardcore raiders. It takes a lot of fun out of the tier.

[Deleted]

Anyone have seen a new simcraft build? Ret lost about 4% dps, whats strange is that str=haste and mastery is much much lower, about same level as crit. For my paladin (http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...d/Pawik/simple - 549ilvl) weight are about:
STR - 4,8
haste - 4,82
matery - 3,33
crit - 3,09

Question is - is a new build accurate and we will be gemming in haste ignoring every socket bonus or there are some flaws in it. I would put my bet on newest version and total haste domination - from change notes they have cleaned rotation and bugs - same was with ret in t14 to half t15. For like 7months ret was super low on sims, cause simcraft didn't include 15% sword of light.

P.S Sorry for my bad english

[cremor]

That's a bug in 530-6 and already fixed for the next version. It doesn't see the 50% CD reduction for HoW with SW during AW.

Also check your action priority list since there is a second bug that results in a missing action for your level 90 talent.