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  1. #21
    Mechagnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by ayashi View Post
    Seriously, BiS lists are a thing of the past
    It's not only a BiS list, it's a theorycrafting thread aswell. Meaning rotation, stats, talents, glyphs etc.

  2. #22
    Mechagnome ayashi's Avatar
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    Oh i'm sorry, since the thread is half about theorycraft, and that is indeed always relevant, i guess i'll have to admit it's only half useless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Goatfish View Post
    the average wow player is only a step above eating glue and a step below doing basic addition. Right about being able to operate scissors fairly properly is the sweet spot.

  3. #23
    Moderator Malthanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ayashi View Post
    Oh i'm sorry, since the thread is half about theorycraft, and that is indeed always relevant, i guess i'll have to admit it's only half useless.
    Because there's never ever been multiple STR DPS options for a single gear slot (they really need to invent a sarcasm font). BiS lists are still viable as long as there are different options for any one gear slot. Second, and more importantly, stop derailing the thread.

  4. #24
    Derp the Herp.
    Last edited by vynka; 2012-07-10 at 03:50 PM.

  5. #25
    Epic! Gracin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vynka View Post
    Seeing that the assistance thread has evaporated I'll just ask for 'live' help here.
    <snip>
    This is actually the theorycrafting for tier 14 in MoP.

  6. #26
    yep but since the previous tier was closed in favor of this one I thought that live theorycrafting and 'assistance' was brought here also :X If that's not the case, then I'll open a new thread asking for advice

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by vynka View Post
    yep but since the previous tier was closed in favor of this one I thought that live theorycrafting and 'assistance' was brought here also :X If that's not the case, then I'll open a new thread asking for advice
    Here you go:
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ion-dps-thread

  8. #28
    I am blind, editing previous posts.

  9. #29
    Bit dead here ,
    Don't forget about these Heroic Elite i516 items btw
    http://mop.wowhead.com/item=90506
    http://mop.wowhead.com/item=90508

  10. #30
    I am Murloc! anaxie's Avatar
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    I'm back! I'll update the OP asap along with useful information from my perspective. Also a shout out Pbad will not be raiding hardcore anymore and I havnt seen butosai in ages. So their presence in this community may be ghostlike in the following tiers. Never fear! You still have myself and Requital for expert opinions and theorycraft / dps backed by our 7+ years of Retribution experience in high end content and parsing top 10 consistently.

    I ask for the community to consolidate all mop information and 5.0 information / questions to this one thread rather then spreading it to 20 something others which quickly become buried in the clutter.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2012-08-30 at 08:29 PM.

  11. #31
    Herald of the Titans Nadev's Avatar
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    Yummy. Thanks Anaxie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LilSaihah View Post
    I picked Biden because he may throw Obama into the Death Star's reactor core, restoring balance to the Force.

    Now having a ball on SWTOR!

  12. #32
    I am Murloc! anaxie's Avatar
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    IMPORTANT!

    -- Darkmist Vortex – 15% chance on direct white/melee/harmful-spell landing, 105 sec ICD.

    This is the Sha of fear trinket Both heroic and normal have same proc. Thats how trinkets work now procs are the same.

    Yes 105sec looks bad until u realise that is the same cooldown as our wings with 4 set. Meaning we get an additonal 5100 haste or 12% free during wings or atleast Most of the duration.

    Also for the Relic of Xuen. It's proc will overlap with wings almost as reliable as Creche since the awkward 45 sec ICD and that awkward 1:45 sec wings / 30 sec duration benefits and feels like it was made for us.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2012-08-30 at 09:03 PM.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Also a shout out Pbad will not be raiding hardcore anymore and I havnt seen butosai in ages.
    That's too bad, they were great contributors to our plight. Looking forward to the info consolidation.
    Where do you stand on the stat weights for 85? I tried mastery>haste and haste>mastery, the numbers were pretty similar but haste>mastery felt better. Also if haste>mastery, will Gurth normal be better than Slicer heroic?

  14. #34
    Regarding Sanctified Wrath being our "best" talent choice with T14 gear, I don't see how that would make it the best.

    Obviously not taking into account fights in which one talent really shines over another ( HA on Spine etc etc ), why wouldn't you pick HA, use it in conjunction with Wings, and get a ¿¿bigger?? dps increment since they will be nearly on the same cooldown? I guess it's bigger since you'll have all your HP generators dealing extra damage and spaming more TVs, HoW's damage shouldn't come ahead of a free TV every time you use a HP generator.

    I feel like delaying one of our CDs 25 seconds should be worth it, but I guess that would need to be simmed to provide actual results.
    Last edited by Lazay; 2012-08-30 at 09:19 PM.

  15. #35
    I am Murloc! anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bolt66 View Post
    That's too bad, they were great contributors to our plight. Looking forward to the info consolidation.
    Where do you stand on the stat weights for 85? I tried mastery>haste and haste>mastery, the numbers were pretty similar but haste>mastery felt better. Also if haste>mastery, will Gurth normal be better than Slicer heroic?
    This is entirely based on how fast your guild kills DS bosses. Sometimes you will only get one cooldown with more haste then u can ever use from heroism.
    85 is so broken haste or mastery both wins.

    Mostly Mastery though :3

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-30 at 09:29 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Lazay View Post
    Regarding Sanctified Wrath being our "best" talent choice with T14 gear, I don't see how that would make it the best.

    Obviously not taking into account fights in which one talent really shines over another ( HA on Spine etc etc ), why wouldn't you pick HA, use it in conjunction with Wings, and get a ¿¿bigger?? dps increment since they will be nearly on the same cooldown? I guess it's bigger since you'll have all your HP generators dealing extra damage and spaming more TVs, HoW's damage shouldn't come ahead of a free TV every time you use a HP generator.

    I feel like delaying one of our CDs 25 seconds should be worth it, but I guess that would need to be simmed to provide actual results.

    The DPS increment doesnt affect autos, Censure, Execution sentence, TV, or seals. WIngs increases everything 20% and will always be used with execute nevermind it's less then 2 mins at 90 tier gear. It's better in every single way.

    25 seconds when Wings are only a 105sec CD will definetly lose out. Nevermind all the procs in MoP trinekts sync better with wings cooldown + 30 seconds is a LONG time to have everything proc + full potion benefit + longer lust benefit + entire guardian benefit.

    Also the best part? after 30 hammers in 30 seconds you should have 5 HP pooled. ENough for a fresh Inqu and a TV shortly after.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2012-08-30 at 09:38 PM.

  16. #36
    Presumably, in T14 gear, we'll have more haste available which will lower ability CDs by a much greater amount; I'm playing with SW right now and, last night in raid, my Wings rotation was HoW->CS->HoW->TV->HoW->CS->HoW->TV ad nauseum. That was pretty damned fun, lemme tell you. Didn't help to alleviate the gutting in DPS the spec took, though, which was hugely disappointing.
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  17. #37
    I am Murloc! anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grognard View Post
    Presumably, in T14 gear, we'll have more haste available which will lower ability CDs by a much greater amount; I'm playing with SW right now and, last night in raid, my Wings rotation was HoW->CS->HoW->TV->HoW->CS->HoW->TV ad nauseum. That was pretty damned fun, lemme tell you. Didn't help to alleviate the gutting in DPS the spec took, though, which was hugely disappointing.
    Strange. I gained DPS this is with the removal of 10% extra ap, 3% raid damage buff, Spellhaste being useful, AGI/Str buff, not to mention it was the FIRST NIGHT EVER I've played beta ret and messed up like a fool since I'm so used to seeing a shiny Exo before i hit it. and losing GCDS using TV @3HP.

    However our aoe is ass. I reccomend taking Divine storm off your bars and forgetting it ever existed.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2012-08-30 at 09:35 PM.

  18. #38
    @Anaxie: It's probable that I'm defending the HA usage due to being tied to how ret worked before this patch, I think it should still be considered ( since I duno if anyone has simmed or tryed it on beta ) unless proven to be a worse dps option.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grognard View Post
    Presumably, in T14 gear, we'll have more haste available which will lower ability CDs by a much greater amount; I'm playing with SW right now and, last night in raid, my Wings rotation was HoW->CS->HoW->TV->HoW->CS->HoW->TV ad nauseum. That was pretty damned fun, lemme tell you. Didn't help to alleviate the gutting in DPS the spec took, though, which was hugely disappointing.
    You bet, I was on HC DW and with the Nozdormu buff it's just a plain spam of skills.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Strange. I gained DPS this is with the removal of 10% extra ap, 3% raid damage buff, Spellhaste being useful, AGI/Str buff, not to mention it was the FIRST NIGHT EVER I've played beta ret and messed up like a fool since I'm so used to seeing a shiny Exo before i hit it. and losing GCDS using TV @3HP.
    Tuesday I know my DPS was awful because I was absent my tracking addons and had minimal time to practice with the new five-pool, so Inq uptime was atrocious, and I kept watching my HoPo generator CDs while forgetting to dump. Last night, though, my rotation and Inq were much better, but I know I lost 2k DPS on N-Madness10 and was second from last on meter (dead last was another Ret with really bad gear) by a huge margin, whereas the last two weeks (when we were two-healing it; due to mechanics changes, usual healers were OOMing hard and decided to run an extra) I was rotating between second and third. Compare to the Arms Warrior (in gear comparable to mine) who did about half again as much to twice the DPS I did on Madness. Only real benefit to the patch that I have noticed is that I've been seeing more procs outta Gurth than I have since I got the blasted thing weeks ago.
    I am Grôgnárd, the one and only!

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  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Also the best part? after 30 hammers in 30 seconds you should have 5 HP pooled. ENough for a fresh Inqu and a TV shortly after.
    How do you get to use 30 hammers when it only halves the cooldown? You have to use something between Hammer unless you have ~190% haste.

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