1. #981
    Quote Originally Posted by Neldarie View Post
    You do know that everything IS broken for Ret right now ye?
    Reality and physics about ret are clearly shown on that simcraft website.
    This content had 3 things going so much very retributions way:
    1) Gimmicky fights with +%dmg taken on stuff (hi mastery)
    2) Extremely well itemized for progress (hi haste)
    3) Retardedly overpowered setbonuses.

    Even trivial shit like not having range on things to dps benefits ret more than any other melee for example.
    Real mechanics and dynamics are far from what you see on your recount or logs for this tier my friend.

    PS: You will 100% see buffs go our way come patch 5.2. Problem is it will prolly be way too late like Firelands Unlike alot of people who pretend to know and post idiocy here, I actually do know what I am talking about.
    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Spec_Scor...14/60/default/

    Can't argue with the facts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Retfoo View Post
    well like i said mages warlocks pretty much expected to be the top every tier anyways just because they are pure dps class. thats not to say that rogues dont need a tweak and seemingly getting some anyways ....but were hybrid. and as much as warriors and DKs are kinda hybrids too you are just never gonna see ret get the love we got back in ICC where everything was broken for us. I also dont think blizz will ever really even us out the same as warriors without buffing mastery for us. its the end of a tier almost tho so who knows what the new set bonus will be and as for this tier if blizzard has shown any consistency its that changes dont really happen unless they feel they need to and its not something they feel is broken. I agree we arent as strong as other melee classes though i just dont think you are going to see anything done about it until the very earliest 5.2.
    Blizzard has stated repeatedly there is no more hybrid tax, making your entire argument invalid.

  2. #982
    I'd link these instead: http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_D...14/30/default/
    They are behind everything that can choose another superior spec for DPS except for shamans. We all know any AOE fight Ele is going to dunk, ret has no options. Ret falls behind in this tier even with items that are pretty well itemized while other specs dominate.

  3. #983
    I am Murloc! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neldarie View Post
    *snip*
    Couldn't agree more, if you look at logs for the few fights without damage increases or look at fights before damage increases activate retribution is in a very sad state. It's the same fucking issue we've had since ever: we burst among the top 3 specs but our dps (single target and aoe) without CDs is so far behind any other spec it's not even funny. This time around PvP hurts alot because of the lack of survivability, which in PvE is fine. But damage in PvP is "fine" because of burstyness but in PvE it's bad because of very low sustained damage output.

    Best of all? Stupid twitter / blueposts from GC about how retribution is fine in PvP and nothing said about PvE, unless next tier bonus AND encounters have damage increases like we have in 2/3 encounters now in T14 I might aswell go prot or holy. I get that a "hybrid" shouldn't be beating pure specs, but when the pure specs have as much or even more "hybridness" than retribution has? We have burst damage, that burst damage has to carry our numbers untill CDs come back off CD. I'm scared to shits about the development of retribution dps, little to no words from the dev team and the few things we get are minor changes to "ease our lives" instead of making sure we're gonna stay viable.
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  4. #984
    I don't know why people qq about Ret, it seems like its in the best place its been in for a long time. If we were top dps if would just inflate the number of paladins, which is already a problem is some cases.

  5. #985
    I am Murloc! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valex View Post
    I don't know why people qq about Ret, it seems like its in the best place its been in for a long time. If we were top dps if would just inflate the number of paladins, which is already a problem is some cases.
    Yes, 1000 mages, all dps isn't inflated but 2000 paladins playing 3 different specs & roles is.
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  6. #986
    Stood in the Fire Neldarie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valex View Post
    I don't know why people qq about Ret, it seems like its in the best place its been in for a long time. If we were top dps if would just inflate the number of paladins, which is already a problem is some cases.
    QQing and constructively arguing the inevitable future are 2 different things. Ret were in exact same "good" state in tier11 after mastery revamp as people remember with 3.80 weapons. But when Firelands "came", so did every other dps on top ret for a long time till the stupid censure hotfix.

    And please stop quoting me if you have 1) nothing to add? 2) contradict yourself further proving my point (w-o properly reading my post or your own source).
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  7. #987
    Moderator Krekko's Avatar
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    Lets keep this thread moving forward. Please! -Krekko
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  8. #988
    Banned anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krekko View Post
    Lets keep this thread moving forward. Please! -Krekko
    Krekko it's not needed Neldarie is making valid points about the state of ret and the perfect scenario that is T14H raiding for the class. Hes one of like 5 people whos opinion I'd take seriously.

    I see nothing offensive in his posts except facts that we should all be wary of moving forward into 5.2.

  9. #989
    Blizz needs to just split their balancing team into two groups, one for pvp, and one for pve. Set skills to have "pve" values and "pvp" values that activate when you are in the respective instance. But I guess that would make too much sense for blizz.

  10. #990
    About T14H BiS list, doing my napkin math with scale factors from my current gear i noticed that offset piece that we should use are gloves from Elegon or legs from Emporor any thoughts on that and generally on offset piece in for T14H?
    Last edited by pedjaland; 2013-01-09 at 04:42 AM.
    Armory links: Paladin Death Knight

  11. #991
    Quote Originally Posted by pedjaland View Post
    About T14H BiS list, doing my napkin math with scale factors from my current gear i noticed that offset piece that we should use are gloves from Elegon or legs from Emporor any thoughts on that and generally on offset piece in for T14H?
    using both T14 helmet and T14 shoulders results in too much hit generally at 490+ ilvl.. some uncommon cases where it doesn't.

  12. #992
    I'm actually kind-of worried about where Ret will be when we get into 5.2... I know that Ret isn't the only spec suffering a bit in PVE and it could be worse - like in the case of Elemental Shamans - but that's really no excuse for some other DPS specs to perform so much better. The obvious outliers that need to be brought down to everyone else's relative level are Affliction Warlocks, Arcane Mages, SMF Fury Warriors and Assassination Rogues. If those 4 specs were brought down to around the DPS specs that still do overall more than us but still much closer to Ret on average, then there wouldn't be much to complain about concerning PVE IMO. Elemental Shamans need a little PVE love too.

  13. #993
    Pandaren Monk GenaiTN's Avatar
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    I always argue that Ret is in an "okay" spot but I reckon we're going to be in a shit spot in 5.2.

    A really, really shit spot.

  14. #994
    If Cataclysm is any indication we're going to get a small band-aid in late 5.2 and a real buff in 5.3. Only to lose everything again in 6.0. I'd say Blizzard hates Paladins if it weren't for Shamans. Blizzard despises Shamans.

  15. #995
    With the extra prismatic socket to the Sha touched weapon, is the heroic elegon weapon still better than the normal Shin'ka?

  16. #996
    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzlybarry View Post
    With the extra prismatic socket to the Sha touched weapon, is the heroic elegon weapon still better than the normal Shin'ka?
    Probably not in that case.

  17. #997
    So keeping t14 4 set for t15 possibly? Not sure how good those set bonus's are.

  18. #998
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Krekko it's not needed Neldarie is making valid points about the state of ret and the perfect scenario that is T14H raiding for the class. Hes one of like 5 people whos opinion I'd take seriously.

    I see nothing offensive in his posts except facts that we should all be wary of moving forward into 5.2.
    Is the point of this thread to discuss how to properly min/max as a raiding ret based on the hand we are dealt from the devs, or complain about things that are completely out of our control as if it's going to help? I don't see how saying how good or bad we are in comparsion to other classes adds anything to the discussion. If the thread is going to turn into a pointless debate/whine thread then don't be suprised when the mods lock it.

  19. #999
    It's hard to tell how good T15 ret set bonuses are at a glance... not sure about them yet.

  20. #1000
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    It's hard to tell how good T15 ret set bonuses are at a glance... not sure about them yet.
    TV having a chance to deal full holy damage is gonna lead to some big numbers! 2set is a bit meh tho.
    People don't forgive, they forget. - Rust Cohle

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