Anaxie's Totally Magnificent ToT Retribution T15 BiS & Theorycraft

[Faesroll]

It's hard to tell how good T15 ret set bonuses are at a glance... not sure about them yet.

TV having a chance to deal full holy damage is gonna lead to some big numbers! 2set is a bit meh tho.

[pedjaland]

Set bonuses are out
2 set Your Exorcism causes your target to take 6% increased Holy damage from your attacks for 6 sec.
4 set Your Crusader Strike has a 40% chance to make your next Templar’s Verdict deal all Holy damage.

source http://www.wowhead.com/news=209845/5...tbonus-paladin

[Viveras]

You should probably read the thread before posting, it was already mentioned last page.

[Floross]

With the extra prismatic socket to the Sha touched weapon, is the heroic elegon weapon still better than the normal Shin'ka?

Probably not in that case.

Anyone else know for sure ?

[Runewrath]

2set is a bit meh tho.

Especially since the 2 set wont affect exorcism unless you get an AoW proc.

[Malthanis]

Especially since the 2 set wont affect exorcism unless you get an AoW proc.

It just says 'Exorcism', and nothing about Art of War. Why would the new 2pc. bonus require an AoW proc?

[Runewrath]

Because it puts a debuff on the boss after you cast exorcism, and the cooldown on exorcism is more than 6 seconds unless art of war procs.

[Zoma]

It just says 'Exorcism', and nothing about Art of War. Why would the new 2pc. bonus require an AoW proc?

I think he means Exorcism benefiting from the 6% increased Holy damage. You'd need an Exorcism to proc the set bonus, and then an AoW proc with 6 seconds for a buffed Exo.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Without Art of War procs most rets have Exorcism on ~12sec CD now anyways so the 6% holy damage should have ~50% ish uptime, this depends on offset itemization for next tier ofc. No haste, no love.

4set is going to be fucking annoying, 2-4 holy power you'd want to use crusader strike then templars verdict asap if the shit proc. Is it going to be more than 30% more damage from templars verdict anyways?

[Runewrath]

I think he means Exorcism benefiting from the 6% increased Holy damage. You'd need an Exorcism to proc the set bonus, and then an AoW proc with 6 seconds for a buffed Exo.

Yes sorry I meant that Exo wouldn't benefit from the 6% damage.

[Reith]

4set is going to be fucking annoying, 2-4 holy power you'd want to use crusader strike then templars verdict asap if the shit proc.

It doesn't really change priority at all except during Wings where you'd use Crusader Strike instead of Judgment. The proc is obviously going to last long enough to not really interrupt rotation outside of that. That'd just be silly.

Is it going to be more than 30% more damage from templars verdict anyways?

I haven't confirmed boss armor personally but if boss armor really mitigates 34% of Templar's Verdict damage, then with Inquisition on top of that, is 1.97 times more damage when you use it with the proc.

---------- Post added 2013-01-10 at 04:45 PM ----------

I cannot edit my post... so the only thing that 4-set could be tricky with is Divine Purpose with multiple procs in a row. Would it be worth it to try to Crusader Strike between any of them? I couldn't even begin to guess if that's true or not.

[Floross]

I cannot edit my post... so the only thing that 4-set could be tricky with is Divine Purpose with multiple procs in a row. Would it be worth it to try to Crusader Strike between any of them? I couldn't even begin to guess if that's true or not.

Not quite the problem , it's established HA & SW are much better for raid.

[anaxie]

Item - Paladin T15 Retribution 2P Bonus (New) Your Exorcism causes your target to take 6% increased Holy damage from your attacks for 6 sec.
Item - Paladin T15 Retribution 4P Bonus (New) Your Crusader Strike has a 40% chance to make your next Templar’s Verdict deal all Holy damage.


Early predictions.
~You will want to track the CS proc if it procs and exorcism is on CD you will be firing TV no matter what HP 3-5.
~Divine purpose will be the best talent when using 4 set especially with a any weapon in the 25k top end range.
~Mastery is going to become stronger then strength. Haste should still be valued highly if not higher because you need exo procs to maintain the buff and more haste = faster crusader strikes. The eventual goal should be to do as few judgements as possible.
~ 22-25% haste may be a hard stop point then go full mastery
~ Pray it's a low crit gear tier crit sucks.

~Most importantly this set more then ever makes ret a single target focus class. We are heavily punished for attempting to aoe HotR = no CSprocs, DS = extreme single target damage loss. Ontop of losing a Holy TV when doing aoe our -10% damage taken glyph could fall off aswell I'm sure that mitgation has saved all of us at some point in time.

Essentially what I am saying is if any AoE fights exist and how poor rets aoe is and how much single target suffers vs say... a rogue / dk / random casters aoe/multi dotting. The ret is better of sticking to the boss full time. Don't be afriad to tell raid leaders this.

I wonder if the set bonus is perhaps... too weak? keep in mind TV will be 275% wpn damage losing T14 2 set down from 316% The exorcism debuff CERTAINLY needs to be atleast 8-10 seconds 6 is terrible this should be a major complaint in 5.2 ptr that we should push for because.... if the debuff falls the next exo won't be buffed OFC we will need to see if mastery HoL dips from it. I'm going to guess no unless it's a holy proc TV.

A small negetive impact from the Holy tv is the physical 4% debuff may not affect it then? I assume the 5% spell damage would kick in and buff it though but we should be wary of checking data on this when available because we all know how blizzard fucks up ret tuning especially after the whole stealth mastery nerf fiasco at the end of Cata in 5.0

---------- Post added 2013-01-10 at 11:41 PM ----------

Can someone tell me how much armor bosses have currently and how much Physical damage it mitigates? There is a slight chance the 4 set may make up just a bit more then the 15% TV tier set bonus we lose.

[Saferis]

Am i missing something or does this 4 piece seem just as good if not slightly worse than the t14 2 piece. With a 40% chance for full holy damage, that being 30% increased from INQ; we see around 13-14% dmg increase overall statistically. Then factor in the 2 piece which should MAYBE have 75% uptime, we only reach 15% TV damage statistically. Am i missing another holy modifier or is this true? The idea, like Anaxie said, is hopefully that this ends up at a statistically 20% TV damage buff, if not more.

I do like that we get to go back to DP. HA was boring and SW felt too clunky. As much as i hate RnG-dependant classes, it may make the class more fun.

The 2 piece seems somewhat OK, but one thing they can do which would be interesting would maybe increase the AoW proc chance?

[Belephebe]

Armor boss (93) : 24835

Physical damage reduction : 35%

[anaxie]

Nevermind FORGOT inquisiton. This 4 set is going to be godmode. Also i think this 2/4 and using DP will officially make ret one of the most complex classes to play at Rank #1 in 5.2. If the exorcism debuff gets a longer duration we could be sitting very well. Wouldn't mind 50% proc on CS vs 40% too.

Early PTR too we may even see a 2Handed spec or seal/censure / TV base wpn damage% buff. Stay tuned and pray brothers.
It would be very nice if HoL dips off the 6% holy damage but since it was changed to not work with 5% spell debuff we may be out of luck.
The 6% SHOULD be buffed 30% by inquisiton however. we may even get lucky and get some multiplicative action between the 5% and 6% debuffs. small gain but a gain nonetheless.

[Balhale]

My napkin math - see EJ/official forums for it - has the bonuses being roughly as strong as the t14 ones if not slightly stronger. I disagree with the 4pc boosting DP though - you are unlikely to see getting 2 CS in before you can spend a TV with both of those CS generating the proc.

The 4pc boosts any individual TV by roughly 86-90%, which is kind of ridiculous.

[anaxie]

How can the 4 set not boost DP?
Also unlikely? it's 40% ur likely too see streaks of Holy TVS.

5.2 return of the RNGadin. The burstadin is on vacation until 5.3

[Reith]

Yeah the numbers I put on the other thread are definitely off a bit. Hopefully they buff it. The 2-set probably needs to be changed entirely.

[anaxie]

Yeah the numbers I put on the other thread are definitely off a bit. Hopefully they buff it. The 2-set probably needs to be changed entirely.

2 set is fine. Just needs a longer duration.