1. #1061
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    How would it need a 3.2 CS? It works at any amount of haste.
    If you want to alternate CS>TV with no waiting time ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    T15 however makes Sanctified Wrath the toughest choice because you have to pick between Exorcism and Crusader Strike and that makes it more complicated. Either way you're missing out on a T15 set bonus, which makes it tough to pick Sanctified Wrath.
    The exact same problem is posed with HA: Exo (3HP)>NOholyTV6%>CS(3hp)>(Holy)TV+6% is first opener, or CS(3hp)>(holy)TV NO 6%>Exo>NO HolyTV+6%
    I mean, maybe I lost something but please, enlighten me if that's the case.

  2. #1062
    Quote Originally Posted by metasaigneur View Post
    If you want to alternate CS>TV with no waiting time ?
    You can't do that unless you have like 100% haste, which will never happen normally even under Heroism.

    Quote Originally Posted by metasaigneur View Post
    The exact same problem is posed with HA: Exo (3HP)>NOholyTV6%>CS(3hp)>(Holy)TV+6% is first opener, or CS(3hp)>(holy)TV NO 6%>Exo>NO HolyTV+6%
    I mean, maybe I lost something but please, enlighten me if that's the case.
    It's better than HoW > Exo/CS > HoW > TV. You can't fit both Crusader Strike and Exorcism in that rotation at all.

  3. #1063
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    You can't do that unless you have like 100% haste, which will never happen normally even under Heroism.
    and yet that was what was stated to maintain HA is the way to go

    Quote Originally Posted by Neldarie View Post
    DP is already worthless trash lvling talent and not to be considered for any serious raiding.

    HA already competes with SW (and yes outperforms it when stars allign). The new set bonuses and weapon dmg will further down the potency of hammer.
    HA brings out the CS>TV>exo>TV>CS>TV spam that further utilizes 5.2 tier.
    Because yeah, when Exo is off-CD, this works well, but what happen after ?
    CS>(holy)TVno6%>Exo>NoholyTV(+6%)>CS>(holy)TV(+6%)>?? (CS after waiting ? J that bring nothing ? lucky exo proc and yet not chance to a holyTV ?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    It's better than HoW > Exo/CS > HoW > TV. You can't fit both Crusader Strike and Exorcism in that rotation at all.
    With SW, having a 5HP pool to manage 1by1 is easier than 3by3 : HoW(1HP)>Exo(2HP)>HoW(3HP)>CS(4HP)>HoW(5HP)>TV>HoW>CS>HoW>ES/Exo(luckyAoW)/J>HoW>TV
    That way, each ramp-up to 5HP makes it possible to throw a possible HolyTV and with little to no proc-waste and maximum +6% uptime.

    I don't see how SW is the worst thing ti chose here to be honest, but once again, this is the way I see it, maybe there is some point not clear in my mind that makes me talk nonsense. So please help me see through the mists

  4. #1064
    Quote Originally Posted by metasaigneur View Post
    anage 1by1 is easier than 3by3 : HoW(1HP)>Exo(2HP)>HoW(3HP)>CS(4HP)>HoW(5HP)>TV>HoW>CS>HoW>ES/Exo(luckyAoW)/J>HoW>TV
    That way, each ramp-up to 5HP makes it possible to throw a possible HolyTV and with little to no proc-waste and maximum +6% uptime.

    I don't see how SW is the worst thing ti chose here to be honest, but once again, this is the way I see it, maybe there is some point not clear in my mind that makes me talk nonsense. So please help me see through the mists
    Well these set bonuses honestly just make what we should prioritize, a royal mess. Exorcism doesn't compete with Hammer of Wrath on a damage basis at all, but it gives the holy debuff with the 2-set so I have no idea what should be over what in that case. Crusader Strike SHOULD do more damage than Judgment by the time we have enough mastery, but would you want to push it instead of Hammer of Wrath because it buffs TV?.. I don't know. Would you want to push Crusader Strike instead of Exorcism or vice versa? Not sure about that either.

    Like, even Holy Avenger is convoluted as fuck in this situation. Do you CS > TV then wait to gamble with another CS? Is it even worth it? Probably not in that particular case. If you choose Sanctified Wrath, do you prioritize Exorcism over Crusader Strike in-case it procs again? I dunno. At this point, I think I would pick Divine Purpose to avoid that shit without knowing what specific situations what has over another.

  5. #1065
    So basically we agree these need large testing and playing around to find a near-perfect micro-managing on our set bonuses and the answer is not as straight as "Go X 'cause it's sooo much better".

    Thanks for reading me and taking time to answer
    I follow this thread for a long time and will continue to do so. I hope we will find some compromise for our L75 talent

  6. #1066
    Can anyone help with my previous question?

  7. #1067
    Looks like the Ret t15 4 pc will be changed. not sure what to think of it, tbh.
    Check out my youtube channel!!! Gaming videos GALORE!!! :http://www.youtube.com/user/Antigravitydawgz

  8. #1068
    High Overlord Moltor's Avatar
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    im sensing, "DONT BREAK CC WITH AOE FFS" aimed at me now. Reminds me of icc <3

    could be a nice AoE buff, depends how much DS gets boosted

  9. #1069
    Banned anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddlesnarf View Post
    Can anyone help with my previous question?
    Heroic Jasper

  10. #1070
    It would be a minor AoE buff as i see it, seeing as the change says:

    •The Retribution 4pc set bonus has changed. It now has a chance for Hammer of the Righteous or Crusader Strike to cause your next Divine Storm to cause extra damage to your target. The idea being that you might swap from TV to DS when you get the proc, so that the RNG is something you can actually do something with rather than it just being RNG for extra damage.

    notice the "extra damage to your target". So it would only buff the dmg done to 1 mob not everything that DS hits. Hmmm, this really is a mess.

    Take Protectors for example(Yes, it will not be current content, but the mechanic still applies) 3 mobs are alive, they are clumped up, but any dmg done to 2&3 is lost as they regain 100% Health when 1 does. This completely negates our 4p because of AoE diminishing returns or atleast counters it.
    The question is how much +damage would DS do in this situation where it would hit 3 targets but the dmg we care about is only 1 of them?

  11. #1071
    Stood in the Fire Amalisa's Avatar
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    Has the first post been updated yet regarding the neck?

    I got http://www.wowhead.com/item=87036 atm, I'm guessing the garalon hc neck is better?

  12. #1072
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Heroic Jasper
    ...really? I'm losing a lot of Haste. Hmm... ok.

  13. #1073
    I'm actually using ( was using since now I have heroic ) N Impaling over H Jasper Fiddle.
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Floross/simple

    "...and you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee."

  14. #1074
    Stood in the Fire Neldarie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neldarie View Post
    Set bonuses sound too good to be true especially with all the double-triple dipness. We all know Blizz and their stance on those kinda things from the past
    And there you have it...
    WoW = Retired Main: Ret Alt(s): War , DK

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  15. #1075
    Banned anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amalisa View Post
    Has the first post been updated yet regarding the neck?

    I got http://www.wowhead.com/item=87036 atm, I'm guessing the garalon hc neck is better?
    Use garalon neck

    Quote Originally Posted by Floross View Post
    I'm actually using ( was using since now I have heroic ) N Impaling over H Jasper Fiddle.
    wrong

  16. #1076
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Use garalon neck



    wrong
    Not even sure why you answer these questions. When all they need to do is sim scale factors and figure out how they would reforge to find the answer. Especially since the answer isn't as cut and dry as right or wrong.

  17. #1077
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    So, discussions on this new tier 15 4 piece change?

    Curious as to how much dmg it will be increased by...

  18. #1078
    Quote Originally Posted by Saferis View Post
    So, discussions on this new tier 15 4 piece change?

    Curious as to how much dmg it will be increased by...
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...15-Set-Bonuses
    Short answer, it is definetely weaker then the current T14 bonus, more so with the nerf from TV to DS.

  19. #1079
    Quote Originally Posted by Saferis View Post
    So, discussions on this new tier 15 4 piece change?

    Curious as to how much dmg it will be increased by...
    With the numbers they're talking about, it would need to have at LEAST a 60% proc rate and that's only bringing us basically up to par with others on set bonuses on single target. It's much worse in an AOE situation, so balancing that out, it would have to be at least 75% proc chance, which sounds ridiculous if you ask me.

  20. #1080
    Without sounds like too much of an idiot, where would I need to go to sim my stats? I'm getting close to that 9k haste point, and wanted to see exactly when I need to start gemming str. And I'm also trying to figure out which weapon to use, the fully upgraded LFR Shin'ka with the gem (not the extra slot yet) or fully upgraded Starshatter.

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