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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Not worth the potential of fight starting early and not having a talent learned atall. Same for guardian, the risk for guardian is not worth the risk of wasting progression time unless a hard nails DPS check fight you are quite useless in T11 protection tier.

    It's risk vs reward and the risk is not worth it until it's farm content parsing and your death will have no real effect on the success of the group.
    If you have reliable countdowns on your pulls, on the appropriate encounter, it's totally worth it - EVEN IF you do it 5 seconds before the pull - but that's a bit extreme. You could do it 3-4 seconds before pull and have it all done in 1.5 seconds using a macro like this:

    /script LearnTalent(13)
    /cast Guardian of Ancient Kings
    /equip Helmet of Radiant Glory
    /equip Battleplate of Radiant Glory
    /equip Gauntlets of Radiant Glory
    /equip Legplates of Radiant Glory
    /use Golemblood Potion

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Not worth the potential of fight starting early and not having a talent learned atall. Same for guardian, the risk for guardian is not worth the risk of wasting progression time unless a hard nails DPS check fight you are quite useless in T11 protection tier.

    It's risk vs reward and the risk is not worth it until it's farm content parsing and your death will have no real effect on the success of the group.
    I agree about swapping talents but not completely about Guardian. You can just pop it a little bit earlier just to be safe and get 39-40s of it instead of 42-43s. Out of all time I've used it there has only been one time where I was standing with the prot gear on pull (and it was because of a stupid raid leader call to pull making everyone miss their prepots).

  3. #203
    The guardian was enough and now Sanctified Wrath?????? Gotta do whatcha' gotta do.

  4. #204
    Can somebody explain whats going on with Jewelcrafting? I read that it was getting shafted again somehow with the amount of stats it was providing or something.... is this true?

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbringer View Post
    Can somebody explain whats going on with Jewelcrafting? I read that it was getting shafted again somehow with the amount of stats it was providing or something.... is this true?
    It's technically the worst dps profession atm (excluding mining, but that doesn't even count) because there's no room to gem pure strength. You always want to gem haste because of the double budget on gems, but if you're comparing it directly to strength in BiS gear at a 1:1 ratio, it doesn't measure up.

  6. #206
    So because haste is worth more than 50% of strength it's more of a gain to put str/haste in every socket right? That would match the red/yellows, and just ignore our blues and put in str/haste?

    What profession is currently providing the most dps? BS because of the gemming flexibility?
    Last edited by Torchbringer; 2012-09-18 at 09:41 PM.

  7. #207
    Yes, you have two haste slots with bs.

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbringer View Post
    So because haste is worth more than 50% of strength it's more of a gain to put str/haste in every socket right? That would match the red/yellows, and just ignore our blues and put in str/haste?

    What profession is currently providing the most dps? BS because of the gemming flexibility?
    I think we're looking at the Fierce (Str/haste) for reds, Quick for yellows/prismatics, and maybe the Etched (Str/hit) for blues for a bit of reforge flexibility, though that depends largely on how many blue sockets we end up with; probably Quicks in blues if you choose not to match.
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  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grognard View Post
    I think we're looking at the Fierce (Str/haste) for reds, Quick for yellows/prismatics, and maybe the Etched (Str/hit) for blues for a bit of reforge flexibility, though that depends largely on how many blue sockets we end up with; probably Quicks in blues if you choose not to match.
    i dont see any reason to not to match. Isnt hit > haste before cap anyways? If thats too much you can gem hit+haste. If you're still overcap you can just reforge hit into haste.

    Why dont JC gems give 640 secondary stats is beyond me. How long do we have to suffer for being top in Wotlk. I see they reduced number of gems to 2. But why stop there? Why not make JC gems unique with 480 main stat or 960 secondary?

  10. #210
    Absorb > Heal, always... as there is no possible overhealing

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by ipoststuff View Post
    i dont see any reason to not to match. Isnt hit > haste before cap anyways? If thats too much you can gem hit+haste. If you're still overcap you can just reforge hit into haste.
    Yeah you should match blue with hit+haste. Only time you shouldn't is it BiS or near-BiS gear when you should only match the helmet with Tier shoulders + Breastplate. Tier chest + Shoulderpads has more room for hit, but both are actually pretty close on stat value once you get down to it so I don't think it matters much which you pick.

  12. #212
    so for professions in mop you think will be better to drop JC for Tailorng ? currently i have JC+ENg

  13. #213
    Banned anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 19maberco86 View Post
    so for professions in mop you think will be better to drop JC for Tailorng ? currently i have JC+ENg
    Tailoring looks OP and overbudgeted. Should be perfectly fine.

    Alternatively Blacksmithing is always VERY strong. History repeats itself you will epic gem ratings into BS making it 2nd or 1st best in the later tiers.

    I have no doubt by the time T16 comes and we are dealing with 32k + top end weapons mastery / haste is going to take a runny dogshit down strength.

  14. #214
    Banned anaxie's Avatar
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    Even if you could reach the breakpoint in cata you would lose dps because haste sucked in general. It the only half decent rating until we actually got a mastery that wasn't stupid.

    The more powerful weapons get with out of control scaling, the stronger Holy avenger will become. As we progress through the patches because of the raw weapon damage jumps. Mastery will also jump significantly per patch because of the 2k damage jump each 6-7 ilvl wpn jump. If it surpasses Haste is a another topic entirely. But very likely considering how much ratings we start with in only the first tier. This is before the valor system even goes live so T15 could see 26 ilvl jumps alone.

    26ilvls means 30k top end weapons assuming the final boss doesn't drop weapons and have a higher table. This could lead to 33k top end weapons if a boss does.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2012-09-20 at 02:41 AM.

  15. #215
    ANAXIE, THOUGHTS ON THIS - FROM EXEMPLAR ON EJ?

    Findings are as follows:
    Dungeon Gear shows DP=HA (HA is 0.1% less) > SW (0.5% less).
    T14 Gear shows SW > DP (2% less) > HA (1% less).

    T14 leans towards SW because the 85 second AW reduction (more AW, all 10 seconds longer = good). Otherwise talent choice is pretty much up to preference.

    Hit and Expertise cap in dungeon gear will require work, but by the end of the tier it's easy to overcap even reforging away from both stats.

    Weights are similar between the gearsets.
    Str > Haste > Crit/Mastery

    Str is beating Haste by more than 2 to 1 in Dungeon gear, and a bit less than 2 to 1 in Heroic raid gear. Currently I would recommend straight Str in red sockets - the extra 50% secondary stats does not seem to pull ahead. Crit and Mastery flip-flop depending on gear and stats, they remain very close in value.

    Some priorities can juice another couple hundred DPS (a whopping 0.5% to 1% gain), but ES > HoW > Exo > CS > J performs fine under all talent setups. Logically delaying ES shouldn't lose us much DPS, but dropping it lower than 2nd position does noticeably reduce DPS. Balhale was right (though I still don't agree on a valuation of 15 second delay average).

    Unless I'm calculating Light's Hammer damage wrong, it appears to beat ES with 2 targets (Boss + 1). Drawbacks are immobility, click-to-place, and averages (you need to average 1 extra target who is hit by every tick - short lived adds or one add only once wouldn't be worth it). HP never seems worthwhile compared to LH/ES.

    ALSO Latest T14H BiS Stat Weights from SIMC: from your good friend BALHALE!

    HIT: 3.81
    STR: 3.71
    EXP: 2.71
    HASTE: 2.00
    MAST:1.61
    CRIT: 1.59
    Last edited by Boxhunter; 2012-09-20 at 09:44 PM.

  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boxhunter View Post

    T14 leans towards SW because the 85 second AW reduction (more AW, all 10 seconds longer = good). Otherwise talent choice is pretty much up to preference.
    Also because one of the trinkets has the exact same icd as AW with the 4set.Not that many fights where you want/can to use it on cd though.

  17. #217
    So exemplar is saying to go pure strength in reds. So many conflicting sources...

  18. #218
    I wouldn't use pure reds at all in T14 BIS even if Exemplar's stat weights are correct. I would, however, try to strike a balance between strength and haste in gemming to get the best out of it.

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbringer View Post
    So exemplar is saying to go pure strength in reds. So many conflicting sources...


    So that means we shouldnt gem pure str

  20. #220
    Banned anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    I wouldn't use pure reds at all in T14 BIS even if Exemplar's stat weights are correct. I would, however, try to strike a balance between strength and haste in gemming to get the best out of it.
    Exemplar is dead wrong as always.

    Secondaries have twice the budget on gems you get 2 haste for every one strength.

    use Strength /haste in red. Straight haste in yellows.

    2+2 is more then 3.71
    Balhale's weights finally look accurate expect mastery to jump periodically per weapon tiers. Be glad we have powerful ratings for EVERYTHING in MoP. We should be scaling very well in T15 BIS + Valor upgraded gear in 5.1.

    Please do not take crit over mastery, also SW with 4 set is only 1% higher? right! Well I guess we know who not to listen to in MoP.
    SPOILER: EJ

    ---------- Post added 2012-09-21 at 12:20 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Zabyt View Post
    Also because one of the trinkets has the exact same icd as AW with the 4set.Not that many fights where you want/can to use it on cd though.
    Both trinkets line up actually. by the 3rd / 4th set it could start to pull away but 30 seconds is a very large duration to proc within.

    ---------- Post added 2012-09-21 at 12:31 AM ----------

    If you are on the fence which professions to get and swapping is no issue go Engineering. Execution sentences has a very large coif and since springs and ES has same CD and duration ES will be much stronger for all engineers. Nevermind every 2 casts one will be under the effect of +20% wings. Also Bombs are back with no cast time Unlike the terrible cata bombs.

    I also recommend Blacksmithing because ratings will only grow stronger and stronger likely dwarfing str 1:1 in the final tier with out of control scaling. A 40K top end weapon from Garrosh is likely or Legendary. Blacksmithing also has the perk of auto inflating it's value with epic gems while cata proves professions won't always be compensated for lagging behind others.

    I may swap myself later since this alone could cause a large variance in dps for top parses.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2012-09-21 at 12:34 AM.

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