1. #2181
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbringer View Post
    Is it better to hold execution sentence for a feather proc, or keep it synced up with wings?
    try to save it for the end of wings, since it snapshots it, I believe.

  2. #2182
    Long-time lurker, rarely post.

    I've ran into a bit of a situation. I got tossed a Gaze of the Twins as it was going to be de'd. Fortunately, it didn't count as received loot due to it being basically forced on me.

    Anyhow, I've done a few comparative simulations versus my previous trinkets (Lei Shen 497, Xuen 484) and Xuen plus Gaze of the Twins seem to be the way to go by about 800 dps.

    Armory: us.battle.net/wow/en/character/malganis/Aeoniel/advanced (sorry, like I said, I don't post very often!)
    50k Iterations, All raid buffs, etc
    133143 dps - Lei Shen (497) + Xuen (484)
    133168 dps - Gaze of the Twins + Lei Shen (497)
    133955 dps - Gaze of the Twins + Xuen (484)
    I've not had a chance to test it in a raid environment, unfortunately. However, from dummy tests it seems to have at least one stack up "most" of the time (most being about 50% of the time, which coincides with what SimC estimates its uptime at). Each stack gives approximately 4.8% crit chance, so with crit buff and inq I was sitting at about 33%~ crit chance when all three where up (which did happen, but one and two were much more common). In tandem with the 4pc bonus it can certainly help get extra crits under wings/goak.

    While it certainly lacks the raw power of the other 522+ trinkets for us, it may be slightly better than a few of the t14 trinkets by a small margin. Overall, though, certainly not something to aim for over the other trinkets available in t15 (Not that we didn't know that already having seen Feather in action!)

    Anywho, just thought I would share my observations!

  3. #2183
    yeah its right! best scenario is when you ES in the last 2sec of feather procc and wings,potion,guardian are still up

    EU-Frostwolf Reckless T14: 16/16Hc T15: 13/13Hc T16: 14/14Hc

  4. #2184
    Grunt
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    ES indeed snapshots your attack power, making it more powerful when you're under the influence of as many strength procs as possible; however, regarding Wings, I was under the impression that damage buffs present on your character are not snapshotted and rather work on a hit-by-hit basis, similar to the effect of damage debuffs on targets. If this is true - please, correct me if I'm wrong as I'm not 100% certain on this at this time - then it would mean you want Wings active for as much duration of ES as possible, but at the very least for the last few ticks. Trying to also stack your 2-set bonus debuff on the boss at this time adds a lil' extra kick but isn't always possible, given the RNG proc nature (but enough haste to get Exo to around 10s will allow full uptime during ES's duration regardless of AoW procs).

    Anyway, if given a choice between popping ES under Wings or under a max Feather stack, I believe Feather wins here. Of course, it's nice when things align, but it's nice to know what's better when that scenario doesn't occur (which is usually). Since I currently lack a Feather trinket, I've usually just been popping ES immediately before I blow my CDs, that way I don't waste any globals during it (been rolling HA for all ToT fights, I prefer it atm but will test SW now that I have 4-set bonus). With a Feather, however, I believe it is worth delaying it a short while and using that global during CDs if you can get it to proc. The damage difference will be massive (a ret friend of mine observed up to a 300% difference on the ES damage, although you have to bear crit RNG in mind here).

  5. #2185
    Quote Originally Posted by Flowe View Post
    yeah its right! best scenario is when you ES in the last 2sec of feather procc and wings,potion,guardian are still up
    Of course! but 90% of the time that wont happen. So is it best to delay ES, with it possibly sitting off cd for a while (meaning less total in a fight), for a feather proc?

    Quote Originally Posted by Novaslice View Post
    Useful Information
    That's what I thought too Nova, since wings doesn't literally increase your AP ES wouldn't snapshot it. If I had a feather myself I would test, my biggest worry is that if we had bad luck on procs ES might be sitting off CD for a while, and we end up with less total ES's throughout the fight, not sure if this is a valid concern though because I don't have the trinket.

  6. #2186
    Grunt
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    Generally I try to avoid delaying ES unless there is a damage increase buff/debuff coming and holding off on it until then will produce more overall DPS. With RPPM trinkets there is RNG built right into them, more so than the previous ICD-based trinkets. Blizzard did implement a bad luck failsafe into them recently, which helps alleviate streaks of bad luck (no procs for ages) and released the formula to calculate chance to proc since last proc. This information can be used to help determine whether or not holding of on a usage of ES is likely to produce a DPS increase. There will always be a risk in doing so, mind you - it is RNG after all.

    For example, let's say ES is just coming off CD with our Wings (and Avenger if using that talent). If your trinket just finished a proc then it's not likely to proc again for you now when you're about to blow all your CDs. However, if it hasn't procced for like 30 seconds after finishing a proc, then it is much more likely to proc again now. I don't have the data on hand for the RPPM of the Feather (I think it was originally something like 0.616 but it got buffed 10% later with most of the trinkets) but I did find the topic with the failsafe formula:

    eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6892090046
    (can't post direct hyperlink yet - how many posts is "a few times"? /sigh)

    If someone has the link to the blue post with all the original RPPM data and class coefficients, that would be fantastic

  7. #2187
    Field Marshal Rikhx's Avatar
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    ------------------------Damage done---------------#-----------Ticks-----------#---------Tick Crits
    -----------------------------------------------------------Avg-------Total--------------Avg------Total
    Execution Sentence----1003136---9.9 %------------6-----36537.8----219227----4-----195977.2--783909


    Looking at logs after our Lei Shen hc progress tonight and I managed to scrap out this as an example. Bear in mind that my gear is extremely shitty still(516ilvl) and this is only with the feather(normal) trinket proc(at last second) and wings/guardian/prepot, would be higher with the spark in aswell but this is almost impossible to get on the pull, obviously. Think I saw the end crit beeing something around 550k. I probably got some higher ones but not really gonna look for em!

    Can't wait to get 4pc, a HC wep and the ilvl(still like 10ilvls behind majority) to get on par with most other dpsers in my guild to see viability of rets this tier.
    Last edited by Rikhx; 2013-04-01 at 12:32 AM.

  8. #2188
    At 517 ilvl

    Feather:

    [00:16:26.849] Dakeshi Execution Sentence Iron Qon 19933
    [00:16:27.874] Dakeshi Execution Sentence Iron Qon *45169*
    [00:16:28.843] Dakeshi Execution Sentence Iron Qon 22754
    [00:16:30.022] Dakeshi Execution Sentence Iron Qon 25029
    [00:16:30.892] Dakeshi Execution Sentence Iron Qon 27532
    [00:16:32.093] Dakeshi Execution Sentence Iron Qon 30286
    [00:16:32.952] Dakeshi Execution Sentence Iron Qon 33315
    [00:16:33.846] Dakeshi Execution Sentence Iron Qon *75490*
    [00:16:34.984] Dakeshi Execution Sentence Iron Qon 42729
    [00:16:35.850] Dakeshi Execution Sentence Iron Qon 213644
    [00:16:35.850] Dakeshi's Execution Sentence fades from Iron Qon

    No Feather:

    [00:17:35.609] Iron Qon afflicted by Execution Sentence from Dakeshi
    [00:17:36.621] Dakeshi Execution Sentence Iron Qon 10732
    [00:17:37.668] Dakeshi Execution Sentence Iron Qon 11805
    [00:17:38.564] Dakeshi Execution Sentence Iron Qon *26749*
    [00:17:39.687] Dakeshi Execution Sentence Iron Qon 13475
    [00:17:40.563] Dakeshi Execution Sentence Iron Qon 14822
    [00:17:41.686] Dakeshi Execution Sentence Iron Qon 16305
    [00:17:42.580] Dakeshi Execution Sentence Iron Qon 17935
    [00:17:43.718] Dakeshi Execution Sentence Iron Qon 20913
    [00:17:44.596] Dakeshi Execution Sentence Iron Qon 23004
    [00:17:45.733] Dakeshi Execution Sentence Iron Qon 115020


    Both are with synapse springs. Have not checked Dancing Steel procs etc, but you see the impact of feather alone x]



    Just go to the expression editor in worldoflogs and type this:

    Spell = "Execution Sentence"

    It will give you every single Execution Sentence by any player in that log. Can be done on a attempt per attempt basis.

  9. #2189
    whether or not to hold ES is pretty simple math

    If you cast 1/3 less ES in a fight, they have to do 50% more damage each to make up that difference. Its actually slightly less due to the ~one GCD you'd save but whatever.

    Personally the way I do it is with a weakaura showing my current attack power. If I have basically no buffs up, I'll usually hold it, because a good rampage and zandalar proc will double my AP, making it WELL worth waiting.

  10. #2190
    Grunt
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    If a Feather proc alone can pretty much double the ES damage like shown there... then yeah by all means try to hold it for those (or other strong procs like Spark). It's extremely unlikely you'll be holding it for a length of time such that you're getting 50% less ES's in a fight so it's looking to be quite a gain. WTB Feather

  11. #2191
    I am Murloc! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    Normal Feather gives 16k strength, doubt many actually have much more than 17k strength unless they have base str trinkets and double str professions. So yeah, feather pretty much doubles your strength the last 2 seconds. With normal spark, wep enchant and feather I had 96k attack power, that's without guardian and pot. Unless you're unlucky as hell saving tinker gloves and ES for feather is going to be a huge dps increase.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-01 at 05:13 PM ----------

    Has anyone tried to find out when it's not a dps loss to use DS over a 4piece proc TV? without the proc it's at 2-ish targets right? should be around 4-5 targets with the proc I'd think so unless we have 4+ targets available to hit with DS it's actually a loss to use if we got a 4piece proc?

    Anyone done the math?

  12. #2192
    High Overlord tonyjs's Avatar
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    So I finally got a piece of T15 today (Shoulders), but it would break my T14 tier set. Should I wait to equip these in'till I get another piece?

  13. #2193
    The Patient Dmchomerun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deveh View Post
    So I finally got a piece of T15 today (Shoulders), but it would break my T14 tier set. Should I wait to equip these in'till I get another piece?
    From my understanding:

    T15 2pc > T14 4pc

    T15 1pc < T14 4pc
    Exorcising Undead in the name of the Silver Hand!
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...homerun/simple

  14. #2194
    Quote Originally Posted by Dmchomerun View Post
    From my understanding:

    T15 2pc > T14 4pc

    T15 1pc < T14 4pc
    I can confirm that, I did like 7k more with 2p Tier15

  15. #2195
    so yasterday i got the haste & exp thunderforged legs from durumu and the shoulder from tortos, and i had 496 T14 pieces, is it better to change into those and just ignore my 2 set t14? note that i have 2 set bonus T15.

    And are the STR JC gems still the best to put? ;o

  16. #2196
    Quote Originally Posted by Blacklion View Post
    so yasterday i got the haste & exp thunderforged legs from durumu and the shoulder from tortos, and i had 496 T14 pieces, is it better to change into those and just ignore my 2 set t14? note that i have 2 set bonus T15.

    And are the STR JC gems still the best to put? ;o
    Pretty sure that t14 2pc will outweigh any stat gain from 2 items alone, especially from 496 -> 522/528. 320 str outweighs 480 haste any day.

  17. #2197
    Quote Originally Posted by thatfireguy View Post
    Pretty sure that t14 2pc will outweigh any stat gain from 2 items alone, especially from 496 -> 522/528. 320 str outweighs 480 haste any day.
    i tried simming my gear and it showed that using those 2 pieces is actually a dps increase, probably will use it since we're progressing on horridon hc atm, and prob council will be the same thing since i'll be DS'ing.

    tho i have a question for retri's that are raiding in a 10m guild,

    atm when we're progressing through hc's, i feel obligated to watch and care about the raid members, flashing low hp people sometimes and LOH'ing, which really screws up my dps since losing a GCD is so unforgiving to us, not only that but to my GM if any1 dies and my LoH is on cd it's my fault :/..

    but when we're killing bosses normal mode on the last day to finish up, my dps sky rockets, super different.

    Any1 having same issue with GM's/caring too much about raid members?

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-02 at 02:48 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by dennisdkramer View Post
    whether or not to hold ES is pretty simple math

    If you cast 1/3 less ES in a fight, they have to do 50% more damage each to make up that difference. Its actually slightly less due to the ~one GCD you'd save but whatever.

    Personally the way I do it is with a weakaura showing my current attack power. If I have basically no buffs up, I'll usually hold it, because a good rampage and zandalar proc will double my AP, making it WELL worth waiting.
    Can u write the string for weakauras to show current AP please?

  18. #2198
    Quote Originally Posted by Blacklion View Post
    i tried simming my gear and it showed that using those 2 pieces is actually a dps increase, probably will use it since we're progressing on horridon hc atm, and prob council will be the same thing since i'll be DS'ing.

    tho i have a question for retri's that are raiding in a 10m guild,

    atm when we're progressing through hc's, i feel obligated to watch and care about the raid members, flashing low hp people sometimes and LOH'ing, which really screws up my dps since losing a GCD is so unforgiving to us, not only that but to my GM if any1 dies and my LoH is on cd it's my fault :/..

    but when we're killing bosses normal mode on the last day to finish up, my dps sky rockets, super different.

    Any1 having same issue with GM's/caring too much about raid members?

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-02 at 02:48 PM ----------



    Can u write the string for weakauras to show current AP please?
    The fact that you can save people is one of the best parts about being ret in my opinion. Certainly it hurts your dps, but if you're not wiping to enrage its generally worth it. If your GM expects you to save people every time with LoH he's fucked in the head, but certainly you should try to save people if you can. There are a few mechanics where I feel its worth it to skip execution sentence for progression, such as quills, or for example throwing down a LH on ranged for garalon.. but if that's something your GM expects of you, you need to tell him to reevaluate your healers' performance because ret's offhealing is not free. Ferals, on the other hand, have free GCDs all the time during which they can throw out healing touch. I loved playing feral, did so much healing, imo its a total game-changer.

    I'm not very good at code and this is just off the top of my head so the syntax is probably wrong somewhere, but even if its wrong maybe it'll help you search for the right answer.. and hopefully I'll remember to check it when I get home:


    custom trigger (custom, event, every frame)

    function()
    local ap = UnitAttackPower("player")
    if ap >= 1
    then return true
    else return false
    end
    end


    custom text

    function()
    local ap = UnitAttackPower("player")
    if local ap >= 1
    then ap = ap / 1000
    else end
    end
    return = string.format(%.1K,"ap")
    end

  19. #2199
    I am Murloc! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    remember our feng hc first kill, 3 selfless healer saves and a LoH on low tank. Kinda sad that selfless healer does more than LoH now.

  20. #2200
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    remember our feng hc first kill, 3 selfless healer saves and a LoH on low tank. Kinda sad that selfless healer does more than LoH now.
    lol what? LoH heals for your total health (~460k in my case), selfless healer can maybe crit for that much with some big procs up

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