1. #2421
    Any tips for durumu hc? How should i deal with icewalls?

    We dont have many locks/eles but our dps on walls in enough so should I just tunnel boss and single first wall?

  2. #2422
    Now we are on Primordius hc without skipping and still no heroic drop for me except a shitty hit cloak from Horridon. Not that my orders+valor trinket+sha axe make me worried about hit overcap haha.
    It sucks when you think about asking your RL for benching since you don't want to stall the raid progress.

  3. #2423
    Mechagnome
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    In Alpha Since 2004
    Posts
    641
    Quote Originally Posted by Afarensis View Post
    What, with a 40% proc chance? Not very likely. You could say the same thing about crit value, and the chance for a crit is even less than 40%. Sure, it's possible to not see a proc for ages, but on average it's a massive DPS improvement. You might as well say that Art of War is a weak ability because there's a chance it'll never reset the CD on Exorcism.
    i don't disagree that its not a bad tier set or anything when it does proc, i'm saying that because its not 100% proc chance, because of how Sanc wrath CD rotation is, if you don't get those procs, you wont see ANY dps increase at all with the tier set bonus, and despite BEING 40% it happens quite often, (i have had 4 piece since week 2, not getting procs when you want them happens a lot.) This reminds me of DS, where you could be a god with 4 tentacle spawns and spamming TVs with dp procs and get damn good dps during your CD phase, or get no procs from either sources for a majority of the fight and none during burst. The difference now is that without those procs, we are last in dps every time.

    shit, i got out dpsed by our assassination rogue the other day on a fight just by him afk auto attacking for 2 minutes and coming back, getting a Brez and getting a second hero. our dps is so bad right now that without uber procs were complete shit, and a 15% increase on the SoL buff wont change that. As usual. we need another overhaul, cause apparently blizz keeps wanting to go to the do unworkable burst like a god then go afk the rest of the fight till CDs are up. Lets face it, as long as they keep trying to balance PVP, our model of damage will never be ok unless it turns OP for the pvpers, and has proven to work like this for 8 some years.

    Rant over time to go play in ToT and get shit on by my fellow raiders who laugh at me for even being ret >.>
    Last edited by Reghame; 2013-04-15 at 05:09 AM.

  4. #2424
    Quote Originally Posted by Reghame View Post
    i don't disagree that its not a bad tier set or anything when it does proc, i'm saying that because its not 100% proc chance, because of how Sanc wrath CD rotation is, if you don't get those procs, you wont see ANY dps increase at all with the tier set bonus, and despite BEING 40% it happens quite often, (i have had 4 piece since week 2, not getting procs when you want them happens a lot.) This reminds me of DS, where you could be a god with 4 tentacle spawns and spamming TVs with dp procs and get damn good dps during your CD phase, or get no procs from either sources for a majority of the fight and none during burst. The difference now is that without those procs, we are last in dps every time.

    shit, i got out dpsed by our assassination rogue the other day on a fight just by him afk auto attacking for 2 minutes and coming back, getting a Brez and getting a second hero. our dps is so bad right now that without uber procs were complete shit, and a 15% increase on the SoL buff wont change that. As usual. we need another overhaul, cause apparently blizz keeps wanting to go to the do unworkable burst like a god then go afk the rest of the fight till CDs are up. Lets face it, as long as they keep trying to balance PVP, our model of damage will never be ok unless it turns OP for the pvpers, and has proven to work like this for 8 some years.

    Rant over time to go play in ToT and get shit on by my fellow raiders who laugh at me for even being ret >.>
    If you're getting beat by someone who's been dead for 2 minutes, sorry that's not a problem of the spec. That's a problem with you being bad.
    Ret does need an increase and this is likely to be more than sufficient.

  5. #2425
    Quote Originally Posted by DWguild View Post
    If you're getting beat by someone who's been dead for 2 minutes, sorry that's not a problem of the spec. That's a problem with you being bad.
    Ret does need an increase and this is likely to be more than sufficient.
    Depends where you want Ret to be. I'd like to be upper-middle, not middle-middle.

  6. #2426
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    Depends where you want Ret to be. I'd like to be upper-middle, not middle-middle.
    Let's be honest here though Reith, if Reghame is being outDPSed by an assassination rogue that's been dead for two minutes he's just not playing Ret correctly.

    All I see in this thread is people QQing and pretending we're doing 20% less DPS than other specs while it's not even close to being that dramatic. I feel like there's a lot of players in here that are doing their rotation incorrectly, jumping on the forums and seeing that other people are complaining about Ret, and then deciding that it really isn't their fault at all, it's ret being bad.
    Most of these players would benefit a lot more from getting some gear upgrades and sitting on a target dummy for a while than typing long-winded posts about how "ret is so bad there's no point even bringing them".

  7. #2427
    Stood in the Fire Neldarie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    The Dark Side
    Posts
    432
    "20% less DPS" In most cases that's being the good case scenario. Let's be honest, when you actually compare you should use same "peers" to compare with. It's not worth comparing gold to copper. Other thing is that one can/may write a whole book about how to compare things properly (yes reading and >interpreting< logs). There is also no point in comparing to the average/bottom pile because lets face it when it really matters those don't make it in anyways. Melee you should compare your spec to are basically just rogues and unholy dks this tier (dps warrior/frost dk way too situational and mostly unwanted, but even those stomp ret atm even just at utility they bring ("immortality" yes purgatory is a big thing in this tier of 1-2shotted)).
    WoW = Retired Main: Ret Alt(s): War , DK

    Diablo3

  8. #2428
    Quote Originally Posted by Afarensis View Post
    Let's be honest here though Reith, if Reghame is being outDPSed by an assassination rogue that's been dead for two minutes he's just not playing Ret correctly.

    All I see in this thread is people QQing and pretending we're doing 20% less DPS than other specs while it's not even close to being that dramatic. I feel like there's a lot of players in here that are doing their rotation incorrectly, jumping on the forums and seeing that other people are complaining about Ret, and then deciding that it really isn't their fault at all, it's ret being bad.
    Most of these players would benefit a lot more from getting some gear upgrades and sitting on a target dummy for a while than typing long-winded posts about how "ret is so bad there's no point even bringing them".
    What exactly is your point? The data is heavily against you if you're talking about ret in general. Don't even say every Ret in the world is "doing their rotation incorrectly":

    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/
    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Spec_Scor...14/60/default/

  9. #2429
    I am Murloc! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Norway, Trondheim
    Posts
    5,604
    1. never look at overall parses.
    2. Normal "doesn't matter", heroic is where the differences are seen.
    3. Ret has a couple fights where we can inflate numbers; Jin'rokh, Tortos adds, magaera adds and Ji'kun. Those fights are "cheesable" and makes number go way off what's fact.
    4. If you want to compare anything, anytime look at top parses who hasn't cheesed to get numbers. Example: heroic magaera the last spawn of adds (when 8th head has emerged) doesn't matter, any dps on them is WRONG.
    5. Every fight has one class or spec dominating on it because of the class mechanics, warlocks are sick strong this tier because of how the fights are made (and they are strong anyways). Rets are weak and the fights don't work well for them. It all adds up to numbers being what they are. The "power" of ret vs warlock for instance isn't as insane as it looks on raidbots, yes the numbers say that but it has a lot to do with how the fights are made aswell as how the classes work.
    9thorder.com | 14/14 Heroic 25-man | West 114 | Recruiting for Warlords of Draenor!

    Follow our raids on Twitch!Bear - Retribution PoV

  10. #2430
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    1. never look at overall parses.
    Yeah, ignore that data. /rolleyes

    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    2. Normal "doesn't matter", heroic is where the differences are seen.
    Again, ignore data? Normal may not have as much of an impact, but it still matters.


    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    4. If you want to compare anything, anytime look at top parses who hasn't cheesed to get numbers. Example: heroic magaera the last spawn of adds (when 8th head has emerged) doesn't matter, any dps on them is WRONG.
    Well obviously, but that stems from a deeper problem with Ret's mediocre AOE. It could be worse, but it's nothing compared to some other specs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    5. Every fight has one class or spec dominating on it because of the class mechanics, warlocks are sick strong this tier because of how the fights are made (and they are strong anyways). Rets are weak and the fights don't work well for them. It all adds up to numbers being what they are. The "power" of ret vs warlock for instance isn't as insane as it looks on raidbots, yes the numbers say that but it has a lot to do with how the fights are made aswell as how the classes work.
    So you're saying if an orange wasn't an orange, it wouldn't be an orange. Obviously - but it's an orange.

  11. #2431
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    What exactly is your point? The data is heavily against you if you're talking about ret in general. Don't even say every Ret in the world is "doing their rotation incorrectly":

    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/
    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Spec_Scor...14/60/default/
    My point that whining in a theorycrafting thread is counterproductive. The point of this thread should be to see how we can reach the maximum possible DPS for Ret, and if people want to whine, let them do it in the myriad of other threads on this forum. This thread should be whine-free and fact only.

  12. #2432
    I am Murloc! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Norway, Trondheim
    Posts
    5,604
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    Yeah, ignore that data. /rolleyes


    Again, ignore data? Normal may not have as much of an impact, but it still matters.



    Well obviously, but that stems from a deeper problem with Ret's mediocre AOE. It could be worse, but it's nothing compared to some other specs.


    So you're saying if an orange wasn't an orange, it wouldn't be an orange. Obviously - but it's an orange.
    1. No seriously, overall data tells you shit all. Overall data tells you more about the encounters than each spec, see numbers and every spec in top 5 is strong aoe/cleave/multi dot? Guess what, fights are going to be like that. See weak aoe/cleave/multi dot specs at bottom? guess what, most fights are going to be like that. Looking at overall doesn't tell you that ret is strong on Jin'rokh, overall also gets inflated by aoe fights/multidot fights and so on... Just ignore overall logs imo. They're about as useful as using world of logs to learn a spec...

    2. In normal compare to normal, "end content" isn't at normal and classes aren't balanced around normal. Same way as pvp isn't balanced around 2v2 or low ratings. If anything compare normal ret paladins with other normal ret paladins, on heroic any "unbalance" or difference between specs gets multiplied tenfold.

    4. Lets not make a fruit salad
    9thorder.com | 14/14 Heroic 25-man | West 114 | Recruiting for Warlords of Draenor!

    Follow our raids on Twitch!Bear - Retribution PoV

  13. #2433
    The Patient Prometheous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Maryland, USA
    Posts
    234
    Why does it seem that ret "theorycrafting" has deluged itself into people fighting about how good ret is right now? Can we move on to actually talking about changes and how they affect us?

    <Revive> 14/14H - Stormreaver
    Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday

  14. #2434
    Quote Originally Posted by Prometheous View Post
    Why does it seem that ret "theorycrafting" has deluged itself into people fighting about how good ret is right now? Can we move on to actually talking about changes and how they affect us?
    Already did that. 10-11%.

  15. #2435
    Mechagnome
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    In Alpha Since 2004
    Posts
    641
    Quote Originally Posted by DWguild View Post
    If you're getting beat by someone who's been dead for 2 minutes, sorry that's not a problem of the spec. That's a problem with you being bad.
    Ret does need an increase and this is likely to be more than sufficient.
    Sure, its not like assassination rogues are top by a shit ton and rets at the very bottom or anything, I HAVE to be just terrible for a rogue to beat me like they should right? barring fights where my guild likes to stick me in the complete opposite area where rets might excel in i have plenty of 80-95% epeen ratings. its not an issue of who is bad or good at this game anymore for ret. Its rets shit and will be shit whether or not your good or not. these guys i raid with cant scratch my percentiles yet beat me by thousands of dps. that's an issue that we have.

  16. #2436
    Quote Originally Posted by Reghame View Post
    Sure, its not like assassination rogues are top by a shit ton and rets at the very bottom or anything, I HAVE to be just terrible for a rogue to beat me like they should right? barring fights where my guild likes to stick me in the complete opposite area where rets might excel in i have plenty of 80-95% epeen ratings. its not an issue of who is bad or good at this game anymore for ret. Its rets shit and will be shit whether or not your good or not. these guys i raid with cant scratch my percentiles yet beat me by thousands of dps. that's an issue that we have.
    It is hard to say as most guilds benched their Ret, as other melee do so much more dps and bring more utility. Gear a warrior or Dk but otherwise most guilds are carrying more range anyway. Locks,boomie,Fire mages once they get the gear needed, so why would anyone bring a ret? Not saying they shouldnt be allowed to raid but why carry a ret?

  17. #2437
    Mechagnome
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    In Alpha Since 2004
    Posts
    641
    That is the entire point of why no one likes how ret is ATM, if we gained some sort of raid utility that's actually noticeable and actually worked for most if not all the fights i think it would be understandable, but its not.
    Right now we have devo aura, which is 20% MAGIC DAMAGE, note that there are a lot of bosses that have raid damage thats not magic damage at all like quills or iron Qon's final phase. we don't bring much utility AND do bad dps to boot. there is a damn good reason why we don't get brought to many fights unless its 100% niche fight for us specifically.

  18. #2438
    It's ok, Rets can immunity for HM Lei Shen so at least 1 will possibly be brought. Good luck getting in for Ra'den though, lol.

  19. #2439
    Quote Originally Posted by Exertim View Post
    It's ok, Rets can immunity for HM Lei Shen so at least 1 will possibly be brought. Good luck getting in for Ra'den though, lol.
    And if you actually get brought in, any drops will go to the "regular" raiders lol.

  20. #2440
    Banned anaxie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    My Throne
    Posts
    6,432
    Quote Originally Posted by isadorr View Post
    And if you actually get brought in, any drops will go to the "regular" raiders lol.
    Talked with Blacklisted about a month ago. Apparently he doesn't even have an MMO account. Maybe you should stop trolling my thread and also stop impersonating players. Thanks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •