1. #2581
    This is the exact reason I bought the cloak and have had it rotting in my bags ^^.

  2. #2582
    High Overlord Jaling's Avatar
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    Nice, glad I'm using mine still.

    Anyone have thoughts on when 5.3 will arrive? I know it hasn't been announced, but I'm curious how much longer I might have to hit 3,000 valor.
    Jaling (Retribution Paladin)

    Twitch (Tuesday/Thursday/Sunday | 9pm - 12am server)

  3. #2583
    Hi folks, finally got a little lucky with some drops, got the 522 crit sword and the tier 15 2 piece and all the hit that goes with it.

    My question is this, I have the 522 spark and the valor trinket, last night I got the lfr feather, which trinket should I replace to equip the feather.

    I do read alot but there seems to be so many comments about our gear this level that I thought I should ask here.

    Toons name is Kredible on Stormrage.

    Thanx in advance.

  4. #2584
    Rolled a Heroic TF Bo-ris tonight off Meg, my prayers to the weapon gods have been answered.

  5. #2585
    Quote Originally Posted by Revvo View Post
    Rolled a Heroic TF Bo-ris tonight off Meg, my prayers to the weapon gods have been answered.

    I'm changing BiS list I'm pretty confident Bo-Ris is BiS the expertise allows for other mastery to be gained so it's esentially +2000 mastery you can never get otherwise at the expense of like 800 haste and crit which can S my D. If 5.3 came out tommorow you would be pushing almost 50% mastery in a raid.

    OFC if you are Human Frozen hells is your BiS.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-05-02 at 04:34 AM.

  6. #2586
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post

    I'm changing BiS list I'm pretty confident Bo-Ris is BiS the expertise allows for other mastery to be gained so it's esentially +2000 mastery you can never get otherwise at the expense of like 800 haste and crit which can S my D. If 5.3 came out tommorow you would be pushing almost 50% mastery in a raid.

    OFC if you are Human Frozen hells is your BiS.
    BRB race changing.

  7. #2587
    Quote Originally Posted by crazy8 View Post
    Hi folks, finally got a little lucky with some drops, got the 522 crit sword and the tier 15 2 piece and all the hit that goes with it.

    My question is this, I have the 522 spark and the valor trinket, last night I got the lfr feather, which trinket should I replace to equip the feather.

    I do read alot but there seems to be so many comments about our gear this level that I thought I should ask here.

    Toons name is Kredible on Stormrage.

    Thanx in advance.
    replace the VP trinket with feather. VP trinket has a horrible ICD, doesn't synch with anything. it has a 1:45 ICD, so MAYBE you can have the last 10 seconds coincide with AW, but feather is much better if you play your cards right (delay ES if feather is stacking).

    Also, I got a question: in theory, could it be worth it to change seals from SoT to SoJ when feather is stacked to max, so our censure DoT doesn't scale back to our normal AP value? changing back ofc when it's about to fade out again. that 18K STR could make up for the 2 GCDs we miss.
    Currently only reading the Funny Pictures Megathread because the rest of the forums is filled with piss, whiners and pissed whiners.

  8. #2588
    It has a 75s ICD so 1min15, It aligns almost perfectly with ES and 30sec AW, VP trinket is better than 522 spark...

  9. #2589
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post20835162


    Code:
    FFoJ_522    : 133785 dps
    PToR_528    : 132248 dps
    FFoJ_502    : 131761 dps
    PToR_522    : 131660 dps
    SoZ_522     : 131004 dps
    LSFO_510    : 130399 dps
    GotT_522    : 130366 dps
    PToR_502    : 129935 dps
    BTotSA      : 129886 dps
    Relic_484   : 129295 dps
    SoZ_502     : 129207 dps
    GotT_502    : 128803 dps
    Currently only reading the Funny Pictures Megathread because the rest of the forums is filled with piss, whiners and pissed whiners.

  10. #2590
    Those simulationcraft results don't take into account aligning CDs

  11. #2591
    Quote Originally Posted by metasaigneur View Post
    Those simulationcraft results don't take into account aligning CDs
    first of all, YES it does by its very nature. it sims a patchwerk fight like 10,000 times. in those 10,000 fights, there are attempts where the procs align perfectly, there are those where they align partially, and those where it does not align at all. while simcraft does not take into account aligning ES with massive STR procs like with feather10, this affects all trinkets about equally.

    also, 1:15 ICD means it does NOT align with AW or ES at all. it procs on pull, then again 1:20 after pull, then again 2:40 after pull (taking :05 proc delay into account). since AW expires after 2:30 even with SW, and delaying ES for 20 seconds in hope of a proc is a DPS loss, VP trinket is not better than 522 spark. the only thing you could possibly state is that spark isn't active during the first ES when everything has procced, but it likely is on the second.
    Currently only reading the Funny Pictures Megathread because the rest of the forums is filled with piss, whiners and pissed whiners.

  12. #2592
    Oh you mean it sims fights where you use your brain to delay your CDs judging by the fight duration (using timetodie or past logs) to align it perfectly anyway without losing any full usage of CDs ? Come on...

    But yeah okay, quote some random numbers and be an absolute, to each his own!

  13. #2593
    delaying cds to align them with procs is a fundamental and usually subjective topic (because it's so situational). some people try to stack everything and gamble by waiting on procs and all stars align, but that style also brings a lot of RNG (don't need numbers to prove this I'm sure). then there's people who avoid holding their cd's and use them when they are available because most of the times this will give them a higher dps than if you delay everything. the latter of course being much easier to execute and gives you time to focus on everything else going on.

    now with so many RPPM procs I feel it's hard to argue for the side of where you delay cd's. because of this, simcraft results, despite having questionable APL's, are more reliable than in the beginning of the expansion.

  14. #2594
    Yeah, this playstyle is punitive/risky with rppm trink, but not with predictable ICD trink like shado pan, and that's what makes it (slightly) better than horridon, because with a 75sec ICD it's just math wether or not you delay CDs

    And guaranteed CDs with 8800 STR is better than guaranteed flat CDs on pull (no zandalari warrior here) and *maybe* 7330 STR during 1 or 2 CD usage *if you are lucky*.

    Then again, being good at delaying CDs is a judgement call, a good planning ahead of fights etc... I agree with that, that's why, for the shado-pan talisman only, I don't trust sims

    For rppm trink, well, RNG is RNG, best of luck ranking and go deeps hard

    535 spark trumps shado-pan bay a fair margin though, this only count as a comparison between N spark 522 and 522 shado pan talisman

    My 2c, /kiss

  15. #2595
    Also, Anaxie I think you jynxed us all when you said this before ToT release.


    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post

    HOpfully itt's not off the final boss. That trend of sticking it to 2H classes is getting old. Let casters/ hunters/ rogues have their BIS weapon off Lei shein Kthx.

  16. #2596
    Quote Originally Posted by Revvo View Post
    Also, Anaxie I think you jynxed us all when you said this before ToT release.
    You have a bis weapon. You aren't allowed to speak anymore. Poor Killmour has a 517 still.

  17. #2597
    Ty kindly for the trinket comments, I was thinking the same about the valor trinket, mostly because I am not that high end player but a little below so tracking all the icd's and lining everything up all the while learning the fights is a little much for me,lol.

    I do make a go of it at times though

    Another quick thought, with having the tier 15 2pc is there any thought to re-gemming from haste to mastery, or a better question may be, when if ever will we favor mastery over haste.

    Thanx again folks and btw I enjoy the vids of the ones who have posted, good stuff.

  18. #2598
    Quote Originally Posted by crazy8 View Post
    Ty kindly for the trinket comments, I was thinking the same about the valor trinket, mostly because I am not that high end player but a little below so tracking all the icd's and lining everything up all the while learning the fights is a little much for me,lol.

    I do make a go of it at times though

    Another quick thought, with having the tier 15 2pc is there any thought to re-gemming from haste to mastery, or a better question may be, when if ever will we favor mastery over haste.

    Thanx again folks and btw I enjoy the vids of the ones who have posted, good stuff.
    550 ilvl weapons after 5.3 launches could start favoring mastery easily. Personally for Lei Shien H Mastery should be about as valueable as haste with the downtime allowing wings to come up off cooldown.

    Post 5.3 I'm likely to go a full mastery build once I get a Bo-ris 541/ Gemming/ whatever. If anyone can put up ranks 1s if the build truely comes out superior it would be me. Barring our fun feather n tv procs =/

    However due to GCD reducing meaning... more attacks and RPPM trinkets increase on an internal haste formula it may be impossible for anything to beat haste till 50% hardcap. However I have no doubt by time org comes Mastery will be beating strength along with haste. Personally I believe mastery is beating strength the second you get a 522+ Ilvl Fabled Feather + spark
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-05-02 at 08:40 PM.

  19. #2599
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    550 ilvl weapons after 5.3 launches could start favoring mastery easily. Personally for Lei Shien H Mastery should be about as valueable as haste with the downtime allowing wings to come up off cooldown.

    Post 5.3 I'm likely to go a full mastery build once I get a Bo-ris 541/ Gemming/ whatever. If anyone can put up ranks 1s if the build truely comes out superior it would be me. Barring our fun feather n tv procs =/

    However due to GCD reducing meaning... more attacks and RPPM trinkets increase on an internal haste formula it may be impossible for anything to beat haste till 50% hardcap. However I have no doubt by time org comes Mastery will be beating strength along with haste. Personally I believe mastery is beating strength the second you get a 522+ Ilvl Fabled Feather + spark
    sim it. no reason to just believe something if you can do the math.
    Currently only reading the Funny Pictures Megathread because the rest of the forums is filled with piss, whiners and pissed whiners.

  20. #2600
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrooge McDuck View Post
    sim it. no reason to just believe something if you can do the math.
    Considering sims don't take fight mechanics, Downtimes in fights that allow higher CD to boss uptime, and the benefits of feather doing it's 50% uptime range that still isn't modeled correctly. Sims are the same as toilet paper. Full of shit.

    If a fight this tier doesn't have a huge damage buff gimmic skyrocketing mastery it has an AoE component which also skyrockets the stat to the suggested value. Or in the case with Lei Shien, significant downtime that allows you to get more cooldown uptime on him vs downtime with them.

    Alot of people won't see the results I'm talking about because 99% of the ret playerbase are unlikely to see 530+ Ilvl values until T16 launches.

    Anyhow I'm not going to rely on any program when I can personally test it. Been playing this spec at a top level for almost 8 years now without needing them and getting the correct results and priorities while sims are still being modeled correctly. Some players may scoff at the reality of how I do things. If they can actually beat me in practice or prove something in a logical matter without the use of them then they have my attention.

    Lets consider another part where the Exo debuff is valued VS CS failing to proc during cooldowns. However SoL going to 30% meaning CS will be 15% stronger while exo still stays the same being the only On cast ability not affected. Then you scale in 2/2 Weapons and a Full fledged 549 weapon mastery is starting to look pretty good and CS in pure damage getting damn close to Exo or even surpassing it if you go an entire full mastery build. I said much earlier getting Bo-Ris and pushing mastery > haste you would end with 25% haste <our T14 BiS value> and about 75% buffed mastery. That is a pretty significant amount.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-05-02 at 10:35 PM.

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