1. #3241
    Quote Originally Posted by Zardox View Post
    Holy shit that Ret PTR, one min Inq and three min CD Guardian.
    I can't see Guardian of Ancient Kings remaining at the same level of power with a lower CD -- didn't GC say in the past that some of the strength of the ability would be removed if the CD was altered?

    Also, is the 4pc underwhelming to anybody else? I like DS as much as the next guy but it seems unnecessary unless it's going to pass TV in single target. o_O

  2. #3242
    Scarab Lord Valarius's Avatar
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    That 4pc seems lame. Haven't done PvE as Ret in a long time, but wont that proc be basically last on our priority list? Hits like a wet noodle, and doesn't generate any HoPo, no?

    The Inq stuff is so nice. Having a 30 second buff was such a stupid idea. Now they need to add some spell interactions in so the rotation has some actual depth and not just "lol tacked on maintenance".

  3. #3243
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    Unless they give us Wrath DS again, yes.

    3 minute GoAK and 1 minute Inquisition are pretty nice though.

  4. #3244
    Guardian change seems awesome. The 4 pce is meh, but hopefully it will get changed(like the DK t15 sets)

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  5. #3245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revvo View Post
    Guardian change seems awesome. The 4 pce is meh, but hopefully it will get changed(like the DK t15 sets)
    Just convince them to give us wrath DS again and i'll be happy.

  6. #3246
    Banned anaxie's Avatar
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    What sucks dick is they are going to gut guardian to make it 3 mins but we all fucking know 3 min cd is trash. two minutes or 4 mins Kthx.

    4 Pce is dogshit as long as DS still uses a GCD. Compared to current 4 set which is more frequent, Higher chance to proc, and ALOT more damage and it's doesn't take up a extra GCD. Fuck that 4 set.

    We need to address 2 major things and a 3rd to an extent as something we would like to see.

    #1 Set bonus being worse making upgrading to T16 worthless unless they baseline buff Templar heavily baseline to compensate like DK's were offered this during ToT PTR for their 2 set damage.

    #2 Guardian of Ancient Kings at 3 mins is utterly fucking pointless and needs it's power <if they are nerfing for lower CD> to match the cooldown and the CD should make sense for ret 2mins or 4mins.

    #3 We need to emphasis and sugguest for the current 4 set to go baseline in some manner. Honestly the Holy tvs and the procs are fun. Something I find lacking from the class overall with our dull dps mechanics. Currently in T15 all our spells are well defined and fullfill their role. CS performs procs, Exo debuffs, Templars feels like a true finisher with procs, Hammer is an execute, Judgement is a debuff attack and bread n butter.

    When T15 tier goes bye bye CS, Exo, and most importantly TV lose their identity. If 4 set was to go baseline < maybe at a lower 25% proc chance> CS and Templars would still retain their identity in the rotation.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-06-12 at 05:17 AM.

  7. #3247
    "Guardian of the Ancient Kings (Retribution version) now has a reduced cooldown of 3 minutes, down from 5 minutes, and the maximum number of stacks has been reduced to 12."

    nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

    guardian still isn't going to line up with wings, and now its nerfed to boot.

    4 piece blows so much.

    BTW anaxie, welcome to Tauren aka master race.
    Last edited by Torchbringer; 2013-06-12 at 05:22 AM.

  8. #3248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbringer View Post
    "Guardian of the Ancient Kings (Retribution version) now has a reduced cooldown of 3 minutes, down from 5 minutes, and the maximum number of stacks has been reduced to 12."

    nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
    Yeah we need them to buff it to ATLEAST 16% and just do 4 min cd imo. And please don't touch his damage output formula thanks.

    No sense tuning it as a 3 min cd when no ret who knows how to play will use it outside CD's.

    Imo also pillar of frost is 1 min cd for 20 seconds of 20% strength? Why can't the guardian just give all the strength unfront? Another thing I would ask them.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-12 at 05:25 AM ----------

    Another important thing to make clear to them on h ow bad the 4 set is. During cooldowns where most of our damage comes from our 4 pieace will net us 0 DPS. You would be a fucking moron to not keep generating holy power for TVS between hammers. DS is a slightly stronger CS and I'm sorry but having AoE attacks tuned for single target rotation seems retarded. Nevermind Using it stops the holy power generation dead in it's tracks making the rotation CLUNKY as fuck.

    For this set bonus to be worth it. The proc would have to make DS be usable OFF the GCD and the proc chance needs to be ALOT fucking higher. 50% imo.

    I've been playing ret so fucking long and blizz still keeps missing the point. Free DS is fine and it should be free. But our most important resource is our GCDS.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-06-12 at 05:31 AM.

  9. #3249
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    My immediate thought was the same as yours, Anaxie. DS needs to be off GCD if this 4pc is gonna be worth anything.
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...rytos/advanced

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  10. #3250
    Interesting engineering change as well:

    Hyperspeed Accelerators Permanently attaches hyperspeed accelerators to a pair of gloves, allowing a skilled engineer to increase their haste by 4,800 for 12 sec. The gloves can only be activated every minute. Engineering. 5 sec cast. Reagents: Tinker's Kit. Tools: Arclight Spanner.
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  11. #3251
    Banned anaxie's Avatar
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    Burden of Guilt Your Judgment hits fill your target with doubt and remorse, reducing movement speed by 50% for 12 sec. Paladin - LvL 30 Talent. Your Turn Evil now also affects Humanoids and Beasts. Paladin - LvL 30 Talent.

    LOL they gave paladin fear LOL!

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-12 at 06:46 AM ----------

    We will have to see if the GUARDIANS damage itself was changed on PTR. The 3 min cd if that isn't touched actually works. I think maybe they DONT want us to beable to line it up everytime but which would actually look something like this.

    Pull CD with wings , 3min Use without wings, 6 Mins Use with 3rd wings. So esentially it would be the same setup as today except we wouldn't be delaying the guardian atall.


    4 Set needs adressed the raid tier will LIKELY have adds so IMO the best solution would be push for the 50% proc chance and OFF the GCD FREE Divine storm on proc,

    I mean it's not a terrible idea for a bonus and we all know they are trying SO hard to make us use DS again <hello 5.2 PTR tier> but The only option is auto proc or off the GCD. However I hate the idea of auto proc and would prefer the on demand usage.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-06-12 at 06:50 AM.

  12. #3252
    Another option is to make it auto-trigger on TV usage
    Another is to keep it on the GCD and generate X holy power.

    Again, these are just first-hand patchnotes, maybe DS will see some changes that will make the 4p insane/good.

    Wait and see

  13. #3253
    What would you think if the ds generated by 4pc gave a charge of holy power?
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Josh/advanced
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  14. #3254
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaylen View Post
    What would you think if the ds generated by 4pc gave a charge of holy power?
    It's worthless design in the first place, they moved away from AoE attacks in single target rotation in Wotlk and now they give this retarded set bonus. I hope it doesn't go through, and give t15 4 piece baseline please.
    People don't forgive, they forget. - Rust Cohle

  15. #3255
    What if they get rid of TV and replace it with DS, but make it do the same damage to the main target as TV and have an AoE dmg equal to the DS, similar to HB for DKs. That way the 4pc bonus would make some sense.

  16. #3256
    Banned anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by metasaigneur View Post
    Another option is to make it auto-trigger on TV usage
    Another is to keep it on the GCD and generate X holy power.

    Again, these are just first-hand patchnotes, maybe DS will see some changes that will make the 4p insane/good.

    Wait and see
    Auto fire is a bad since you can break cc <if it is even used> or a "shield" can't be hit. No it needs to be player controlled and off the GCD. That + a 20%/25% increase on it's proc would make it a solid set bonus.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-12 at 01:25 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Anuru View Post
    What if they get rid of TV and replace it with DS, but make it do the same damage to the main target as TV and have an AoE dmg equal to the DS, similar to HB for DKs. That way the 4pc bonus would make some sense.
    I'm sorry I would rather my tier result in a single target dps incrase not only aoe so I can actually be useful on intensive single target fights. bad idea

    Unless you are suggesting DS at 275% weapon damage holy baseline. But then that is a step backwards from where we are today. They need to flesh TV and CS out more and do something baseline akin to the current T15 4 set.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-12 at 01:28 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Vaylen View Post
    What would you think if the ds generated by 4pc gave a charge of holy power?
    A slightly stronger CS still eating a GCD? No thanks I'll keep T15.

    It's their problem and they have to fix it. They can't just nerf the tier because then we wil be dogshit for progression without gaining some baseline buffs.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-06-12 at 01:26 PM.

  17. #3257
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    It's their problem and they have to fix it. They can't just nerf the tier because then we wil be dogshit for progression without gaining some baseline buffs.
    Aren't you used to the Rettercoaster? ever since WotLK, we have had the most fluctuations in our performance out of any melee. the first 24 hours of 3.0, we were insane. then we were middle of the pack until 3.2 with ToC buffs, which improved us. then we were amazing with TAJ and T10. after 4.0, with our shit mastery, poor scaling and awful divine purpose, we were dogshit until 4.0.6, and then mediocre until the buffs from 4.2 and especially 4.3. after that, we went bad again until 5.2, and recently 5.3 brought us to lower middle of the pack.

    if they fix our tier set, 5.4 will be pretty amazing. but if you paid any attention to the previous 2 expansion cycles, ret wasn't decent until the second half or even the 4th quarter of the expansion.

  18. #3258
    Banned anaxie's Avatar
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    Again the set bonus isn't a bad idea to work with they just need to implement it correctly.

    OFF the GCD Free DS
    Chance on TV for a FREE TV

    One of those is fine. I personally like an off the GCD DS because it will help us significantly on AoE encounters we know that will exist. It will always bring back the ICC blender ret since our DS's will basically be procing itself.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-12 at 01:47 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Vito Corleone View Post
    Aren't you used to the Rettercoaster? ever since WotLK, we have had the most fluctuations in our performance out of any melee. the first 24 hours of 3.0, we were insane. then we were middle of the pack until 3.2 with ToC buffs, which improved us. then we were amazing with TAJ and T10. after 4.0, with our shit mastery, poor scaling and awful divine purpose, we were dogshit until 4.0.6, and then mediocre until the buffs from 4.2 and especially 4.3. after that, we went bad again until 5.2, and recently 5.3 brought us to lower middle of the pack.

    if they fix our tier set, 5.4 will be pretty amazing. but if you paid any attention to the previous 2 expansion cycles, ret wasn't decent until the second half or even the 4th quarter of the expansion.
    No sorry, just started playing last week. I have no idea how ret works.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-06-12 at 01:48 PM.

  19. #3259
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    No sorry, just started playing last week. I have no idea how ret works.
    there's no need for the sarcasm. it was more of a cynical remark on my end to make fun of the way our DPS changes across expansions.

  20. #3260
    Quote Originally Posted by UnderworldSoup View Post
    I can't see Guardian of Ancient Kings remaining at the same level of power with a lower CD -- didn't GC say in the past that some of the strength of the ability would be removed if the CD was altered?

    Also, is the 4pc underwhelming to anybody else? I like DS as much as the next guy but it seems unnecessary unless it's going to pass TV in single target. o_O
    4-set's great for AOE when it procs and makes Divine Purpose even better for that Purpose, as well.. but, it's not so good for single target, which makes me think that the Guardian change could stick, seeing as we rely on our T15 set bonuses to compete atm. A change like Guardian at 3 minutes isn't so cut-and-dry in terms of "always stack cooldowns" and how we should use it in an actual fight. If a fight lasts 7 minutes, you wouldn't even want to stack it with your AW the second time around.

    Either way, there's more changes to come for Ret, I suspect.

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