1. #3281
    Warchief Sett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exac View Post
    Why, do you think its overpowered or something?
    No. I think maybe a tad lackluster after t15.
    Quote Originally Posted by r03dz View Post
    Also, Jaina and Vereesa going for a rid on their skeleton horses. :P (typo intended)
    Let's look fabulous~. A Paladin transmogrifier item list.

  2. #3282
    Quote Originally Posted by Sett View Post
    No. I think maybe a tad lackluster after t15.
    I think lackluster is putting it gently.

    if you do the math, adding 1/3 of a TV to CS, J, Exo and HoW (to simulate the holy power you get), each of those is weaker than a single DS in DPS. which in turn means that it's not worth pressing DS, even if it's free, on single target, unless you have nothing available. and this is intended to be a single target bonus, since NONE of the other tier bonuses are a multitarget bonus.
    Because I want to say this every single day but don't want it to get a drag:
    1) The ingame store will only sell timesaver items. It won't affect balance.
    2) No, getting to 100 in half the time isn't pay2win. raids don't start until the second week, everyone has time to get there.
    4) getting charms faster is also not pay2win. getting those is easy, but not everyone has the time or want for dailies.

  3. #3283
    I really don't like the idea of using AoE spells for single target no matter what the math adds up to. It just feels wrong (evil t10).
    Resetting the cd on execution sentence/prism/light's hammer would be nice =)

  4. #3284
    I am Murloc! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    Can people stop wishing for random tier bonuses just in case some blizzard dev pops by the forums?
    Flat increases or changes to abilities are FAR FAR more useful than having say 25% to get a divine storm on using TV/DS


    1holy power on TV / DS would be nice.
    Censure now scales 100% more would be insane.
    Divine Storm now applies 1 stack of Censure.

    things like that..
    Last edited by Huntingbear_grimbatol; 2013-06-13 at 09:14 AM.
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  5. #3285
    Quote Originally Posted by Meanor View Post
    I really don't like the idea of using AoE spells for single target no matter what the math adds up to. It just feels wrong (evil t10).
    Resetting the cd on execution sentence/prism/light's hammer would be nice =)
    I'm sorry, but that sounds horrible.

    Sha of Fear Melee hit You 372908 Physical. (766625 Overkill) (Critical)
    Begging us to buff is sometimes easier than trying to beat the boss.(Source)

  6. #3286
    Grunt
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    Hopefully they will see the error of their ways and change it to a solid single target boost. Couple of ideas: -

    1) ES, LH and HP now benefit from Sanctity of Battle. In addition, these abilities deal 15% more damage and healing.

    2) Your auto attacks have a chance to grant a charge of Swift Retribution lasting 20 seconds, making your next Templar's Verdict or Divine Storm deal 50% additional damage (3 charges max). [3 RPPM, scales with haste]

    3) Guardian of Ancient Kings cooldown is reduced by 1 minute [to 2 minutes] and now stacks to 20. Additionally, when Guardian of Ancient Kings is active, Hand of Light can benefit from critical strike rating.

    Just a couple of ideas that came to me. Let's just hope Blizz changes their minds and picks something better than the current.

  7. #3287
    Quote Originally Posted by Novaslice View Post
    Hopefully they will see the error of their ways and change it to a solid single target boost. Couple of ideas: -

    1) ES, LH and HP now benefit from Sanctity of Battle. In addition, these abilities deal 15% more damage and healing.

    2) Your auto attacks have a chance to grant a charge of Swift Retribution lasting 20 seconds, making your next Templar's Verdict or Divine Storm deal 50% additional damage (3 charges max). [3 RPPM, scales with haste]

    3) Guardian of Ancient Kings cooldown is reduced by 1 minute [to 2 minutes] and now stacks to 20. Additionally, when Guardian of Ancient Kings is active, Hand of Light can benefit from critical strike rating.

    Just a couple of ideas that came to me. Let's just hope Blizz changes their minds and picks something better than the current.
    3rd one sounds OP, but the 1st one sounds good. They need to at least make the GCD scale.

    Sha of Fear Melee hit You 372908 Physical. (766625 Overkill) (Critical)
    Begging us to buff is sometimes easier than trying to beat the boss.(Source)

  8. #3288
    Quote Originally Posted by Revvo View Post
    I'm sorry, but that sounds horrible.
    Alright and? you want some napkins or something? There are many ways to see the tier set bonuses. I really like that spell and i wouldn't mind seeing more usage. Hell 1000x better than spamming divine lol.

  9. #3289
    Quote Originally Posted by Meanor View Post
    Alright and? you want some napkins or something? There are many ways to see the tier set bonuses. I really like that spell and i wouldn't mind seeing more usage. Hell 1000x better than spamming divine lol.
    ES already lines up great with our other CDs, the damage is meh, and the long GCD is clunky in our rotation.

    Sha of Fear Melee hit You 372908 Physical. (766625 Overkill) (Critical)
    Begging us to buff is sometimes easier than trying to beat the boss.(Source)

  10. #3290
    Legendary! anaxie's Avatar
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    All bitching aside we need to point out AS A GROUP that the T16 4set compared to T15 in all aspects is not worth it and rets will not be upgrading tier from such a large dps drop.

  11. #3291
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    All bitching aside we need to point out AS A GROUP that the T16 4set compared to T15 in all aspects is not worth it and rets will not be upgrading tier from such a large dps drop.
    Please people, do this but do it constructively as Anaxie said and not by saying "Blizz fix this or I quit ret paladin because you screw us over and we hate you". Try act like you actually care about the spec.

  12. #3292
    Grunt Kragshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Vito Corleone View Post
    I think lackluster is putting it gently.

    if you do the math, adding 1/3 of a TV to CS, J, Exo and HoW (to simulate the holy power you get), each of those is weaker than a single DS in DPS. which in turn means that it's not worth pressing DS, even if it's free, on single target, unless you have nothing available. and this is intended to be a single target bonus, since NONE of the other tier bonuses are a multitarget bonus.
    Let's just call it what it is; insulting. That is easily one of the most useless bonuses I have seen to date.

    I have yet to be able to rationalize why our sub class is treated the way that it is during these modifications. There were whole expansion patches where Ret Paladins were collectively sat out until another patch or quick fix was released because we could not put out effective numbers as compared to Warriors and Death Knights.

    If a Blizzard Dev does come in here then let him or her read this:

    If you guys are just that damn pissy about Retribution Paladins, then just eliminate the sub class or revamp it altogether from whole cloth. But stop playing games with the class as it is. Either make us comparable to the other plate wearing dps classes or just scrap it.

    Okay. Rant over. Condone, condemn, or ignore at your pleasure, folks.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-13 at 02:56 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Aceshigh View Post
    Please people, do this but do it constructively as Anaxie said and not by saying "Blizz fix this or I quit ret paladin because you screw us over and we hate you". Try act like you actually care about the spec.
    Okay...I posted my above comment before I read your comment.

    I concur. I won't delete my post though because it does speak my heart and mind on the subject.

    I'm not going to rage-quit the game or anything so illogical. But at the same time; I am a consumer and I do reserve the right to complain about a product (or in this case a service) that I feel is not providing me due value for my dollar.

  13. #3293
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    All bitching aside we need to point out AS A GROUP that the T16 4set compared to T15 in all aspects is not worth it and rets will not be upgrading tier from such a large dps drop.
    I remember we already were "threatened" with this "make DS do something" on the T15 4p bonus. Aren't we exaggerating in believing this will actually hit live realms ??

  14. #3294
    Do you guys delay your 2nd GoAK by a minute to line up with 3rd AW? Or do you just use it right away when it comes out CD?

  15. #3295
    Quote Originally Posted by ts8lemonade View Post
    Do you guys delay your 2nd GoAK by a minute to line up with 3rd AW? Or do you just use it right away when it comes out CD?
    Unless the boss is gonna die in the next minute, delay it and line it up with wings

  16. #3296
    Quote Originally Posted by Blacklion View Post
    Unless the boss is gonna die in the next minute, delay it and line it up with wings
    And if it lasts long enough, like around at least 7 minutes, delaying as long as possible to line up with trinkets is a nice boost.

  17. #3297
    Mechagnome
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    i think its a little sad how people think that this new t16 4 set is just "the worst ever" and comparing it to t15's 4 set is down right laughable considering its pretty much one of THE strongest tier sets they have put in the game. you have to remember, these patch notes JUST came out, they already KNOW that DS by itself is somewhat weak and we have no idea if they are changing DS or not. Lets also not forget how silly it looks when all during cata and early in this expansion people were crying "give us back old DS for single target!!" so before we get ahead of ourselves, its not the end of the world.
    As far as the rest of the changes go, they look pretty nice, i tested some of the stuff on the ptr, like the fear and its down right diabolical how we can fear those pesky locks and Spriests that have tormented us with their fears for years.

    TLDR: PTR is not final, for all we know everything introduced can be scraped. just have a lil fun with it and contribute without screaming the sky is falling!

    EDIT: yes, fears for years is a rhyme, one that if the fear stays will be our new motto for RBGs and arena

  18. #3298
    I'm usually one to complain if people take patch note numbers like they are final tuning, but Reghame that post is simply unrealistic.

    This isn't a numbers complaint. This is a mechanics complaint. If DS doesn't generate holy power, or if it's not off the GCD, it will be our last priority.There is no magical change that will fix that. They could buff it to 75%, 80%, higher of the strength of TV (totally unrealistic) and it would be true. I'd like to know the fix you think might happen to Divine Storm that would change our predictions for the bonus.

    I know it's easy to read this thread and think "Oh I'm going to make fun of all the rets who are crying the sky is falling," and be that guy who's not on the bandwagon, and make some super cute comparisons to Wrath. But if your content is wrong, then sorry, you are still wrong. This bonus is not exciting. It doesn't look good, and no magic change to DS will fix that.

    Not unless they change how the bonus works-- for example making it grant holy power, or simply supercharging a single DS, or taking it off the GCD.

  19. #3299
    Mechagnome
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    its true that it will be last in priority, but you also forget about one talent that most seem to just scoff at, which is divine purpose. having this new 4 set also means more TVs as well and if im not mistaken DP already starts to push its little self ahead of SW once we obtain a certain threshold of wpn damage.
    Also, considering some of the resent posts have been oh QQ it does less damage that CS in damage ill never even press DS ever is what im reffering to, its not as bad as people think and under the right circumstances is even a dps increase to what we have now. not only that but if it was an issue with being fun or not why would so many have paladins been crying to use it in single targets for quite a while up until now.

    all im saying is, as before, the PTR JUST landed, complaining about it is not what you do, you put in feedback about it. for example, i find it a little counter productive to use AOE in single target. instead, we have that ability sucks, its a trash tier set blizzard sucks etc etc.

    Also, i have tested a lil bit on the ptr some more, i did 30 some dummy tests and found our current t15 and the t16 to be equal or favoring the t16 one in damage, although this is chuck full of errors such as gems being 100% inactive on gear and it is a small sample pool, i dont think the tier set is THAT bad, i can be fun though for AOE ill tell you that much, the tier set is SUPER good on aoe, DP + 4 set = spam DS still everything is dead. (note it would seem if you have DP + the 4 set active and you DS, it will consume BOTH procs. not sure if its a bug but that sort of diminishes its value.)

  20. #3300
    Quote Originally Posted by Reghame View Post
    its true that it will be last in priority, but you also forget about one talent that most seem to just scoff at, which is divine purpose. having this new 4 set also means more TVs as well and if im not mistaken DP already starts to push its little self ahead of SW once we obtain a certain threshold of wpn damage.
    Also, considering some of the resent posts have been oh QQ it does less damage that CS in damage ill never even press DS ever is what im reffering to, its not as bad as people think and under the right circumstances is even a dps increase to what we have now.
    I feel like I am walking into a trap, but I will respond. How in the world would speccing DP and getting more procs and fillers help this set bonus be better? The problem with the set bonus is that DS is a last priority spell, so we believe we will use it only in filler GCDs. More empty GCDs would mean more room to use the proc. Less empty GCDs equals less room to use the proc. DP provides more TV's = more GCDs are used up, with less room for the bonus proc.... logic, how does it work?

    If you think the set bonus is fun on a dummy then that's fine, that's your opinion. I personally love that they are taking DS and doing something interesting with it, and I love that this is a proccy set bonus instead of +dmg. I admit it, I want the bonus to be something like this. But you can't be like "well I sat on a target dummy and I think that T15 and T16 are the same strength!!!!!!!1111" and then expect us to believe that you have better data about the strength of the bonus than some pretty freaking simple logic. You can say you like how it works and that's fine, but that is a pretty different statement than "this is a strong bonus."

    It's also very possible to be both unhappy and constructive. If you think this thread is all "that ability sucks, its a trash tier set blizzard sucks etc etc." then you have simply not been reading, or you've been picking out only the posts that you want to dislike. There is a lot of QQ, but that doesn't make all of it useless. This post is my favorite:

    Quote Originally Posted by Aceshigh View Post
    Please people, do this but do it constructively as Anaxie said and not by saying "Blizz fix this or I quit ret paladin because you screw us over and we hate you". Try act like you actually care about the spec.
    Yeah. This is exactly what we should do.
    Last edited by Anafielle; 2013-06-14 at 05:39 AM.

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