1. #3341
    In a vacuum, spark and rage are roughly equal, if you were able to line spark up on the pull.

    But you cant. with the way the proc rate on rage works, and depending on how long you're out of combat you can easily (and reliably) see a five stack within the first 10 seconds for all of your CD goodness.

  2. #3342
    Fuck spark. It is generally useless in short fights because the stacks last 1min. Makes me want to back to Brutal Talisman but I already changed too many gems, reforges and enchants. Even if it's a winner in some Simcrafted Patchwerk dummy fight, I really miss the burst that Brutal+Feather provided me.

    Note that I'm talking about 522 versions here. Not everyone here raids 25man HC.

    Edit: was just talking to myself, not replying to anyone else.

  3. #3343
    I am Murloc! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Norway, Trondheim
    Posts
    5,604
    considering how our spells take ap/sp for scalings I'd rather have 1-5 stacks of primordius trinket bouncing up and down instead of a 1min ramp up trinket that's active for 20 seconds, sure it can line up with cds if you're lucky but I think you'll benefit more from having 2-10k more str at 50% uptime instead of a 9k str with ~20% uptime.
    9thorder.com | 14/14 Heroic 25-man | West 114 | Recruiting for Warlords of Draenor!

    Follow our raids on Twitch!Bear - Retribution PoV

  4. #3344
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    considering how our spells take ap/sp for scalings I'd rather have 1-5 stacks of primordius trinket bouncing up and down instead of a 1min ramp up trinket that's active for 20 seconds, sure it can line up with cds if you're lucky but I think you'll benefit more from having 2-10k more str at 50% uptime instead of a 9k str with ~20% uptime.
    I generally get more than that. I get around 23-25% the most often from the logs I'm looking at, but some bad RNG can happen occasionally. If I'm really lucky I could get up to ~30% uptime.

  5. #3345
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    I generally get more than that. I get around 23-25% the most often from the logs I'm looking at, but some bad RNG can happen occasionally. If I'm really lucky I could get up to ~30% uptime.
    And nobody is considering the passive haste vs. crit+haste stats ?

  6. #3346
    I am Murloc! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Norway, Trondheim
    Posts
    5,604
    Quote Originally Posted by SirRaven View Post
    And nobody is considering the passive haste vs. crit+haste stats ?
    at the scale of the actuall trinket procs I don't think 7-800 haste is going to matter...
    9thorder.com | 14/14 Heroic 25-man | West 114 | Recruiting for Warlords of Draenor!

    Follow our raids on Twitch!Bear - Retribution PoV

  7. #3347
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    at the scale of the actuall trinket procs I don't think 7-800 haste is going to matter...
    On the other hand, we're optimizing socket bonuses down to the last bit of haste, a lot less than 700-800 points of haste..

  8. #3348
    Quote Originally Posted by SirRaven View Post
    On the other hand, we're optimizing socket bonuses down to the last bit of haste, a lot less than 700-800 points of haste..
    That's not really the same thing though haha. We're talking about a trinket that procs 1800 str and can stack 5 times. You wanna start factoring that proc into it, which is what people are doing, it's nothing close to "320 haste here or 80str+160 haste with a 60 haste socket bonus". Yes, we squeeze every bit of haste we can out of gemming/reforging, it's quite a different story when we're talking about a trinket that can stack to give us like 9000 str without the same rampup time. Yes I know that it's not going to be common to sustain the 9k proc and I realize the proc on Spark as well, but what people are debating here is the value of those trinket procs at a very high gear level, where the difference isn't going to matter what the passive stat on the trinket is, much like we don't really give a shit about how much hit is on feather, that thing procs so often without rampup time that the passive on it could be int (I don't know that for sure, havent done the math, but what I'm getting from the discussion is the procs and how they make the passive stats on trinkets pretty trivial).
    Last edited by Aceshigh; 2013-06-16 at 11:16 AM.

  9. #3349
    Quote Originally Posted by Aceshigh View Post
    That's not really the same thing though haha. We're talking about a trinket that procs 1800 str and can stack 5 times. You wanna start factoring that proc into it, which is what people are doing, it's nothing close to "320 haste here or 80str+160 haste with a 60 haste socket bonus". Yes, we squeeze every bit of haste we can out of gemming/reforging, it's quite a different story when we're talking about a trinket that can stack to give us like 9000 str without the same rampup time. Yes I know that it's not going to be common to sustain the 9k proc and I realize the proc on Spark as well, but what people are debating here is the value of those trinket procs at a very high gear level, where the difference isn't going to matter what the passive stat on the trinket is, much like we don't really give a shit about how much hit is on feather, that thing procs so often without rampup time that the passive on it could be int (I don't know that for sure, havent done the math, but what I'm getting from the discussion is the procs and how they make the passive stats on trinkets pretty trivial).
    I think the main attraction to the primo trinket is the fact that it almost always stacks to 5 during lust(at least from what I've heard). Thus making your burst during lust with CDs far higher, where as you can't guarentee that with spark. Not to mention a lot of us are experimeting with lower haste + higher mastery builds.

    Sha of Fear Melee hit You 372908 Physical. (766625 Overkill) (Critical)
    Begging us to buff is sometimes easier than trying to beat the boss.(Source)

  10. #3350
    Stood in the Fire Neldarie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    The Dark Side
    Posts
    432
    Was talking about current tier and situations regarding set-bonuses, but ye TF tier will fuck that over I guess. Way things stand atm you shouldn't be replacing current 543 4set and ride the ret buffs with stuff like maybe new weapons/new trinkets and offset stuff in terms of early progress upgrades.

    And about spark vs primo debate. I just find primo to be alot more reliable. Afterall good dps = reliable numbers.
    WoW = Retired Main: Ret Alt(s): War , DK

    Diablo3

  11. #3351
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Nzall/advanced

    any improvements to be gotten? I try to make the best of what I can get, which is limited to everything up to ToT LFR, nalak and oondasta.
    Because I want to say this every single day but don't want it to get a drag:
    1) The ingame store will only sell timesaver items. It won't affect balance.
    2) No, getting to 100 in half the time isn't pay2win. raids don't start until the second week, everyone has time to get there.
    4) getting charms faster is also not pay2win. getting those is easy, but not everyone has the time or want for dailies.

  12. #3352
    After taking a quick look the first thing that came to mind is getting the boots crafted, mats shouldn't be too expensive now. And seems like you're not using 1 serpent's eye! Might be an idea to go for the socket bonus in your chest and gem it with the 320str and a lightning wild jade (160 haste/hit) should be better than 2x 320 haste and no socket bonus, think you can juggle the reforges around a bit that way too. Hope I somewhat helped!

  13. #3353
    What the actual fuck, Anaxie, my Ret idol, you went male cow, whyyyyy :S
    Every good deed shall be rightfully punished. *** If you want to have something done right, you have to do it yourself.

  14. #3354
    Quote Originally Posted by Anxine View Post
    After taking a quick look the first thing that came to mind is getting the boots crafted, mats shouldn't be too expensive now. And seems like you're not using 1 serpent's eye! Might be an idea to go for the socket bonus in your chest and gem it with the 320str and a lightning wild jade (160 haste/hit) should be better than 2x 320 haste and no socket bonus, think you can juggle the reforges around a bit that way too. Hope I somewhat helped!
    i can't lose any more hit than I already am doing. I actually just switched out the gem in my helmet because the hit was 90% wasted.

    and yeah, the serpent eye is something I keep forgetting.
    Because I want to say this every single day but don't want it to get a drag:
    1) The ingame store will only sell timesaver items. It won't affect balance.
    2) No, getting to 100 in half the time isn't pay2win. raids don't start until the second week, everyone has time to get there.
    4) getting charms faster is also not pay2win. getting those is easy, but not everyone has the time or want for dailies.

  15. #3355
    The Patient Dmchomerun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Cathedral of Light
    Posts
    241
    Quote Originally Posted by Don Vito Corleone View Post
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Nzall/advanced

    any improvements to be gotten? I try to make the best of what I can get, which is limited to everything up to ToT LFR, nalak and oondasta.
    The shoulder and chest socket bonuses are worth it, even if you use a haste/stam gem in the chest. You could use your JC gem in either piece.
    Exorcising Undead in the name of the Silver Hand!
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...homerun/simple

  16. #3356
    You are saying about need of haste&stamina gems, but u still reforge crit to haste? I don't get it.

  17. #3357
    The Patient Dmchomerun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Cathedral of Light
    Posts
    241
    Quote Originally Posted by Pawelek View Post
    You are saying about need of haste&stamina gems, but u still reforge crit to haste? I don't get it.
    Because haste is a greater stat than crit for Retribution? Not exactly sure what you are trying to ask...
    Exorcising Undead in the name of the Silver Hand!
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...homerun/simple

  18. #3358
    He's talking about the socket bonuses. To determine if it's worth it, you have to math out what you're losing for what you're gaining using your stat weights. DMC is right, the socket bonuses are worth it.

    Sha of Fear Melee hit You 372908 Physical. (766625 Overkill) (Critical)
    Begging us to buff is sometimes easier than trying to beat the boss.(Source)

  19. #3359
    Quote Originally Posted by Revvo View Post
    He's talking about the socket bonuses. To determine if it's worth it, you have to math out what you're losing for what you're gaining using your stat weights. DMC is right, the socket bonuses are worth it.
    I see. I thought a crit bonus wouldn't be worth it. or is at these days any socket bonus worth gemming for, since our stats are so close together? is my belt bonus worth it (even though i'll likely replace it with jin-rokh or valor belt in the near future)?

    and what item should I be spending 500 valor on next?
    Because I want to say this every single day but don't want it to get a drag:
    1) The ingame store will only sell timesaver items. It won't affect balance.
    2) No, getting to 100 in half the time isn't pay2win. raids don't start until the second week, everyone has time to get there.
    4) getting charms faster is also not pay2win. getting those is easy, but not everyone has the time or want for dailies.

  20. #3360
    The Patient Dmchomerun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Cathedral of Light
    Posts
    241
    Quote Originally Posted by Don Vito Corleone View Post
    I see. I thought a crit bonus wouldn't be worth it. or is at these days any socket bonus worth gemming for, since our stats are so close together? is my belt bonus worth it (even though i'll likely replace it with jin-rokh or valor belt in the near future)?

    and what item should I be spending 500 valor on next?
    For the belt you have, the only time you would match it is if you could use the hit from a haste/hit gem, otherwise, 320 str or 320 haste in the blue socket > 160 haste + 60 crit from socket bonus.
    Exorcising Undead in the name of the Silver Hand!
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...homerun/simple

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •