1. #3341
    It's a band aid, I don't think that fixes the problem at all. We'll see though.

  2. #3342
    Quote Originally Posted by Anafielle View Post
    It's a band aid, I don't think that fixes the problem at all. We'll see though.
    They might change it to 100% extra damage. no ret would complain then.

  3. #3343
    Hehe. Maybe you're right. But.... I honestly wonder if 100% extra damage would pull the proc up in priority.

    Maybe.

    There is a value of X for a bonus proc where X hits hard enough to make pushing back our holy power generation worthwhile. I don't know what X is, I'm guessing. We know that X is not a single DS. X is not a free TV either, we know this because TV is at the bottom of our priority external to a 5 holy power situation. I sincerely doubt X is a +50% DS, and I don't even know if X is a double valued DS.

    Who knows. It's a math problem; it's not one I'm solving. I'm guessing at what the solution is though.

    I shouldn't be this lukewarm about a damage buff, it's just solving the wrong problem. This will up the damage output of the set bonus, and certainly in any cleave situation, but it doesn't touch my fundamental problem with it-- which is that I think leaving a proc to sit while I cast every other spell I have, sucks. =/

  4. #3344
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    They might change it to 100% extra damage. no ret would complain then.
    That would be amazing. Espcially for AoE fights. You have to remember that this will be a pretty big AoE buff, and there are quite a few add fights from the looks of it.

  5. #3345
    So basically as a set bonus it could be good if you have fights with adds like tortos normal, pretty sure we would destroy other classes on that, as a single target damage increase it is not so good, as we lose the goodness of our previous set bonus, which in reality was godly and fun, i liked trying to gamble on cs during wings to see if i could get proc or two

  6. #3346
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    do remember its not JUST 50%
    its 150% HOLY weapon damage aka 150%x130%xmastery%x130% of the mastery proc
    this is a BIG buff to this 4 piece and if im not mistaken, spell for spell excluding t15's 4 piece DS will hit HARDER than TV. if the boss fights are set as they are, we can very well be a #1 factor in a majority of these fights with our ridiculous cleave/AOE damage

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-19 at 08:25 PM ----------

    also, they are changing sacred shield to only grant us the cata effect once more, im not sure if this is either a buff or nerf for its use in PVE, with the TV glyph, and plate armor, i hardly get touched by any physical raid damage. even less if its magic and i have DP up. whats your thoughts on this SS change?

  7. #3347
    Quote Originally Posted by Reghame View Post

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-19 at 08:25 PM ----------

    [/COLOR]also, they are changing sacred shield to only grant us the cata effect once more, im not sure if this is either a buff or nerf for its use in PVE, with the TV glyph, and plate armor, i hardly get touched by any physical raid damage. even less if its magic and i have DP up. whats your thoughts on this SS change?
    Might be something I take for like an Ultraxion style boss, huge predictable hit, but I'm not sure. I'm a big fan of selfless healer, I like having the ability to hit someone with a huge heal that isn't LoH (gotta save that for me being terrible!).

  8. #3348
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    Next tiers 2set increases all damage by 5% on rng without control.
    Current tier 2set icnreases holy damage by 6% on rng with control.

    I'd rather have the current tier one.

    Next tiers 4set increases the damage on your next Divine Storm by 50% and makes it free.
    Current tier 4set makes Templar's Verdict do all holy damage.

    I'd still rather have the current tier one.

    only way they're going to fix the 4set for next tier (if they stick with the idea) is to make it give a holy power... the loss of a holy power in our rotation can't be filled with a Divine Storm unless it hit for roughly half of what a templar's verdict does...
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  9. #3349
    Mechagnome Neldarie's Avatar
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    Personally I rather have the 50% increased dmg removed and make it a passive proc like Sudden Doom used? to be. With haste levels of next tier every GCD will be precious.
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  10. #3350
    Quote Originally Posted by Reghame View Post
    do remember its not JUST 50%
    its 150% HOLY weapon damage aka 150%x130%xmastery%x130% of the mastery proc
    this is a BIG buff to this 4 piece and if im not mistaken, spell for spell excluding t15's 4 piece DS will hit HARDER than TV. if the boss fights are set as they are, we can very well be a #1 factor in a majority of these fights with our ridiculous cleave/AOE damage

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-19 at 08:25 PM ----------

    also, they are changing sacred shield to only grant us the cata effect once more, im not sure if this is either a buff or nerf for its use in PVE, with the TV glyph, and plate armor, i hardly get touched by any physical raid damage. even less if its magic and i have DP up. whats your thoughts on this SS change?
    Ret wise new SS for PvE is massive buff. To have passive def rdy to save you is much better then using current SS to reduce overal dmg. We use current SS when we have black hole in rotation or we have nothing to attc which is rarely with haste lvls and ecounters.

  11. #3351
    Quote Originally Posted by monoroth View Post
    Ret wise new SS for PvE is massive buff. To have passive def rdy to save you is much better then using current SS to reduce overal dmg. We use current SS when we have black hole in rotation or we have nothing to attc which is rarely with haste lvls and ecounters.
    How often do you dip below 30% though. Current SS is a nice thing to abosrb damage when you KNOW damage is coming.

  12. #3352
    I will probably stick with selfless healer for the spike offheal. However, the passive SS opens up potential gcds for the 4pc assuming it stays in its current, lackluster, form which could be a benefit.

  13. #3353
    DS still gonna be too low should be 100% bonus then we can call it game.

  14. #3354
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    DS still gonna be too low should be 100% bonus then we can call it game.
    That's what I think should happen, but they'd probably nerf us somewhere else.

  15. #3355
    Also the proc rate is still 25% on finisher vs current 40% on CS. Way to fucking low

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-20 at 03:12 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Neldarie View Post
    Personally I rather have the 50% increased dmg removed and make it a passive proc like Sudden Doom used? to be. With haste levels of next tier every GCD will be precious.
    Nail on the head.

  16. #3356
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revvo View Post
    How often do you dip below 30% though. Current SS is a nice thing to abosrb damage when you KNOW damage is coming.
    exactly what revvo said, with the current SS, for a fight like tortos i can LITERALLY take 0 damage, that's pretty significant. as of now, i RARELY dip below 50% yet alone 30%, id like to see it's value changed to proc at maybe 15 to 20% hp and give that much of a shield and still keep a slightly nerfed version of what it is now. this would allow some protection on others if you want, AND a small saving grace. then again as i said before we cant ask for everything all the time :/

    i do like the sudden doom idea for our t16 4 piece bonus someone threw out earlier could be interesting, but i still wouldn't throw away a AOE heavy tier bonus for what seems to be a aoe/cleave heavy raid.

  17. #3357
    -I get this feeling that other then damage adjustment's we won't see a whole lot of changes to 4 PC. This very well could wind up as a Divine Purpose DPS raid. The lower cooldown guardian leans towards this with extra burst outside the normal rotation. I'm not sure how often mastery will come into play but if we can end up getting the core roation down to spamming TVS and DS that proc off eachother we we may be looking at some considerable dps. Especially during our NON cooldown based dps timeframes with the new guardian CD and trinkt mechanics. If the legendary is infact a 600 ilvl wpn the weapon ALONE will be 52-54k weapon damage.. That is my fucking weapon damage now with all my strength combined.

    IF this happens. we will be taking Divine purpose. HA is out of the question if 4 set remains how it is. Pray it's a mastery/haste tier. Things are about to get nasty.

    Keep in mind it is NOT solely a 24k weapon damage gain. No no no. 5% from art of war AND 30% from our base core talents The SoL talent alone turns the weapon <if it is infact a weapon> into an extra 31,000 weapon damage.

    Is everyone getting that tingling feeling I am?

    If we do NOT see legendary weapons I'm pretty sure the ilvl 470-475 HTF 2/2 weapons will make a considerable impact.

    My only concern <and it should be noted is that Divine purpose TV casts will waste potential Divine storm procs. It makes me with the shit was auto fire even more and shows us SOME flaws in the design surrounding the bonus.

    But then the flip side is if they were auto fire I doubt they could proc divine purpose. We may be just delt a huge RNG hand that we have to deal with according to the scenario , single target or aoe. Unless of course Divine storm gets buff to be Equal to templars verdict so the ability can be forgotten completely leading to a far less clunky as fuck rotation going forward.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-20 at 05:00 AM ----------

    Unless I'm wrong current DS should be hitting for 250% if you factor in armor and inqu as if it was a physical hit. If they buffed it to say 65%/70% AND put the proc rate at a flat 40% I think we may of hit the nail on the head.

    This would also lead to TV being removed from action bars for the tier and Divine Purpose 100% mandatory if it isn't already from bonus / talent synergy.

    So new plan push for 65% additonal damage and 35% chance on finisher just so it mirrors Crusader strike. It's a tuning adjustment we likely will get. I feel arguments that at 50% it just barely below TV by around 5% they may aswell gut the ability entirely and streamline DS as the new premier ability and bonus that defines us for the tier.

    Doesn't matter if anyone wants it or not the Blender Stormadins are coming back. This time they are set to ludicris speed. Spin like a fucking top. Is that paladin bladestorming? NOPE better!
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-06-20 at 05:06 AM.

  18. #3358
    Mechagnome Neldarie's Avatar
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    Ye it all depends on the wep dmg ranges will be like next tier. But if it follows current progression it will be Haste>Crit>Mastery (with goak changes and current set bonus loses).
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  19. #3359
    Quote Originally Posted by Neldarie View Post
    Ye it all depends on the wep dmg ranges will be like next tier. But if it follows current progression it will be Haste>Crit>Mastery (with goak changes and current set bonus loses).
    I'd bet you that mastery will always overtake crit unless your weapon's ilvl is below your current ilvl.

  20. #3360
    Mechagnome Neldarie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    I'd bet you that mastery will always overtake crit unless your weapon's ilvl is below your current ilvl.
    Keep betting because it's not the case by simply looking at t14/t15 numbers adding meta (that stays = increases crit), sha-touched gem (that we lost = -crit), SoL buff (that we recently recieved = +mastery) and adding in goak changes (+crit) (talking single target btw not AE or other double dipping +%dmg taken bs).

    Bottomline: Mastery as a stat is just piss poor in scaling with ilvl (for ret).
    Last edited by Neldarie; 2013-06-20 at 07:21 AM.
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