1. #3401
    Field Marshal bacildaf's Avatar
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    we should start considering though that maybe the 3min guardian and 1minute inquisition are considered by devs the compensate from losing a good single target bonus to a mediocre one and just accept the fact that we ll have to deal with an aoe strong 4set. Its too early on ptr and hate losing t15 4set but maybe thats the case...

    Also i think we should also see the encounters , maybe the hardest encounters involve aoe and make our 4set shine...

  2. #3402
    Banned anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bacildaf View Post
    we should start considering though that maybe the 3min guardian and 1minute inquisition are considered by devs the compensate from losing a good single target bonus to a mediocre one and just accept the fact that we ll have to deal with an aoe strong 4set. Its too early on ptr and hate losing t15 4set but maybe thats the case...

    Also i think we should also see the encounters , maybe the hardest encounters involve aoe and make our 4set shine...
    The only important thing about guardian is. DID they touch his melee damage. The 4 set I highly doubt is related to those changes the set is clunky, uninspired, and in most cases a DPS loss. That needs changed you shouldn't have people AVOIDING their new tier. Right now I'm giddy as fuck when holy TV procs. Next tier I'll be doing a giant /sigh unless they how it affects DS significantly.

    There is no way to sugar coat it and no reason to polish a turd. It's shit, don't try to make it sound good because it isn't

  3. #3403
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    anafielle you DO know how HP works right? we generate the stuff so we can USE FINISHERS like TV AND DS, if we can skip that process and spam finishes because of how the 4 set works with DP, why is it an issue sitting at 5 HP? your spamming your best abilities at that point it doesn't matter if the weak abilities are not getting used. as you said above, DS hits MUCH harder that CS and judge and is close to exo in damage, it gets beat by hammer usually outright, so whats the problem? its like saying rogues don't use shiv in their main rotation because they are using shadow dance, who gives a single shit? they are doing better damage using ambush and evis, it don't matter if their spamming or not they are doing better damage because of it.

    im actually liking this set bonus even more than before now that i looked up some of these incoming fights. i like preforming niche rolls rather than being the best at everything, it leaves less room FOR GETTING NERFED SO WE DO NO DAMAGE! its not bad, its a niche set, maybe they want us to be a niche dps spec who knows. but stop complaining about it like its the end of the world, its not.

    BTW, if you call yourself a veteran ret over me again i'm going to laugh at you, I've been playing the game prolly twice as long as ret than you prolly even knew the game existed.
    TLDR: you cant have everything, and complaining about it is worse. and don't talk down to people if you don't know them, cause they will possibly laugh right at you and your high horse.

    EDIT: what i could see them doing with all of this, is either improve the proc chance, empower the DS, add a proc to said DS, or change it to effect something else. the order of the following is in order from left to right in possible change, but i don't think anyone will be happy until we are just magically better then most people at everything. IMO the inq and guardian changes might just be enough to put us where we need to be, tier bonuses wont make or break that by too much unless they bring back something ridiculous like the old ele shaman firelands 4 set, but i doubt they didn't learn from that mistake :P
    Last edited by Reghame; 2013-06-19 at 10:46 PM.

  4. #3404
    Right Anaxie, I was ignoring the T15 set bonus when I commented, I was talking about the basic spells themselves. I don't want to compare a DS to a proc-empowered TV, I was talking about spell 1 vs spell 2.

    Of course if you compare the current set bonus empowered TV to just about anything, then anything else is going to look bad. Holy damage TV is pretty much insanely strong.

    I am just concerned about taking T15 as the baseline for what I want out of a T16 bonus. I think there is room for a good bonus that isn't "holy damage TV" type strength and I always thought our T15 was actually too strong; I wish sometimes we had not had it and instead had been tuned without the set bonus on. But that's just how I look at it.

    I also am concerned about suggesting exact bonuses in PTR forums, i would rather think about the type of bonus I would like. When I said "costs holy power" then what I meant was something roughly similar to the T15 bonus which was drafted by blues temporarily and then discarded in favor of our OP holy damage set bonus which we have now -- it did something like charge up your next DS so that it did extra damage. You might not be satisfied with that but I thought it sounded interesting.

    I'm not going to argue with you that T15 is strong; you are right and that is definitely not something I said was not true in my post (or didn't mean to). T15 is ridiculous. Breaking it is going to look pretty stupid depending on what T16 ends up looking like, and beating it with T16 is going to take a hell of a bonus.

    ps: Reghame the comment wasn't personal and I"m sorry you took it like that. I will not explain holy power generation to you or how generating resource is generally more important than spending them; clearly you have been playing ret longer than me so you understand it better than me You can play however you would like to play and whatever it is that you find most enjoyable. I am sorry I poked fun at you.
    Last edited by Anafielle; 2013-06-20 at 12:03 AM.

  5. #3405
    Moderator Zoma's Avatar
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    Updated 4 set on front page.

    Holy Power consumers have a 25% chance to make your next Divine Storm free and deal 50% more damage.

  6. #3406
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoma View Post
    Updated 4 set on front page.

    Holy Power consumers have a 25% chance to make your next Divine Storm free and deal 50% more damage.
    Knew something like that was coming.

  7. #3407
    It's a band aid, I don't think that fixes the problem at all. We'll see though.

  8. #3408
    Quote Originally Posted by Anafielle View Post
    It's a band aid, I don't think that fixes the problem at all. We'll see though.
    They might change it to 100% extra damage. no ret would complain then.

  9. #3409
    Hehe. Maybe you're right. But.... I honestly wonder if 100% extra damage would pull the proc up in priority.

    Maybe.

    There is a value of X for a bonus proc where X hits hard enough to make pushing back our holy power generation worthwhile. I don't know what X is, I'm guessing. We know that X is not a single DS. X is not a free TV either, we know this because TV is at the bottom of our priority external to a 5 holy power situation. I sincerely doubt X is a +50% DS, and I don't even know if X is a double valued DS.

    Who knows. It's a math problem; it's not one I'm solving. I'm guessing at what the solution is though.

    I shouldn't be this lukewarm about a damage buff, it's just solving the wrong problem. This will up the damage output of the set bonus, and certainly in any cleave situation, but it doesn't touch my fundamental problem with it-- which is that I think leaving a proc to sit while I cast every other spell I have, sucks. =/

  10. #3410
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    They might change it to 100% extra damage. no ret would complain then.
    That would be amazing. Espcially for AoE fights. You have to remember that this will be a pretty big AoE buff, and there are quite a few add fights from the looks of it.

    Sha of Fear Melee hit You 372908 Physical. (766625 Overkill) (Critical)
    Begging us to buff is sometimes easier than trying to beat the boss.(Source)

  11. #3411
    So basically as a set bonus it could be good if you have fights with adds like tortos normal, pretty sure we would destroy other classes on that, as a single target damage increase it is not so good, as we lose the goodness of our previous set bonus, which in reality was godly and fun, i liked trying to gamble on cs during wings to see if i could get proc or two

  12. #3412
    Mechagnome
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    do remember its not JUST 50%
    its 150% HOLY weapon damage aka 150%x130%xmastery%x130% of the mastery proc
    this is a BIG buff to this 4 piece and if im not mistaken, spell for spell excluding t15's 4 piece DS will hit HARDER than TV. if the boss fights are set as they are, we can very well be a #1 factor in a majority of these fights with our ridiculous cleave/AOE damage

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-19 at 08:25 PM ----------

    also, they are changing sacred shield to only grant us the cata effect once more, im not sure if this is either a buff or nerf for its use in PVE, with the TV glyph, and plate armor, i hardly get touched by any physical raid damage. even less if its magic and i have DP up. whats your thoughts on this SS change?

  13. #3413
    Quote Originally Posted by Reghame View Post

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-19 at 08:25 PM ----------

    [/COLOR]also, they are changing sacred shield to only grant us the cata effect once more, im not sure if this is either a buff or nerf for its use in PVE, with the TV glyph, and plate armor, i hardly get touched by any physical raid damage. even less if its magic and i have DP up. whats your thoughts on this SS change?
    Might be something I take for like an Ultraxion style boss, huge predictable hit, but I'm not sure. I'm a big fan of selfless healer, I like having the ability to hit someone with a huge heal that isn't LoH (gotta save that for me being terrible!).

  14. #3414
    I am Murloc! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    Next tiers 2set increases all damage by 5% on rng without control.
    Current tier 2set icnreases holy damage by 6% on rng with control.

    I'd rather have the current tier one.

    Next tiers 4set increases the damage on your next Divine Storm by 50% and makes it free.
    Current tier 4set makes Templar's Verdict do all holy damage.

    I'd still rather have the current tier one.

    only way they're going to fix the 4set for next tier (if they stick with the idea) is to make it give a holy power... the loss of a holy power in our rotation can't be filled with a Divine Storm unless it hit for roughly half of what a templar's verdict does...
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  15. #3415
    Stood in the Fire Neldarie's Avatar
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    Personally I rather have the 50% increased dmg removed and make it a passive proc like Sudden Doom used? to be. With haste levels of next tier every GCD will be precious.
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  16. #3416
    I personally think this 4 set can be really good combined with divine purpose could be really sick. Tested divine purpose on majority of encounters tonight with decent success, and if SoO turns out to be the cleave/addfest it's sounding like, then this 4 set has very good potential. Half the melee T16 set bonuses has extreme aoe/cleave potential aswell

  17. #3417
    Stood in the Fire Monoroth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reghame View Post
    do remember its not JUST 50%
    its 150% HOLY weapon damage aka 150%x130%xmastery%x130% of the mastery proc
    this is a BIG buff to this 4 piece and if im not mistaken, spell for spell excluding t15's 4 piece DS will hit HARDER than TV. if the boss fights are set as they are, we can very well be a #1 factor in a majority of these fights with our ridiculous cleave/AOE damage

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-19 at 08:25 PM ----------

    also, they are changing sacred shield to only grant us the cata effect once more, im not sure if this is either a buff or nerf for its use in PVE, with the TV glyph, and plate armor, i hardly get touched by any physical raid damage. even less if its magic and i have DP up. whats your thoughts on this SS change?
    Ret wise new SS for PvE is massive buff. To have passive def rdy to save you is much better then using current SS to reduce overal dmg. We use current SS when we have black hole in rotation or we have nothing to attc which is rarely with haste lvls and ecounters.

  18. #3418
    Quote Originally Posted by monoroth View Post
    Ret wise new SS for PvE is massive buff. To have passive def rdy to save you is much better then using current SS to reduce overal dmg. We use current SS when we have black hole in rotation or we have nothing to attc which is rarely with haste lvls and ecounters.
    How often do you dip below 30% though. Current SS is a nice thing to abosrb damage when you KNOW damage is coming.

    Sha of Fear Melee hit You 372908 Physical. (766625 Overkill) (Critical)
    Begging us to buff is sometimes easier than trying to beat the boss.(Source)

  19. #3419
    I will probably stick with selfless healer for the spike offheal. However, the passive SS opens up potential gcds for the 4pc assuming it stays in its current, lackluster, form which could be a benefit.

  20. #3420
    Banned anaxie's Avatar
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    DS still gonna be too low should be 100% bonus then we can call it game.

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