i don't think people realize that generating HP when your already spamming finishers does not mean anything. your doing WAY more damage by spamming Tvs an DSs with the 4 piece + dp than trying to generate HP and use plain old Tvs.
also, it would seem the DP+ 4 piece bug where using DS while having a DP and 4 set proc would consume two, it now only consumes one of them which is a VERY VERY VERY large AOE/cleave dps increase now that it is fixed. whats that? we heard you like to DS spin for AOE. so we let you spin while you spin so you can spin some more!
jokes aside, the 2 piece is also getting some flack that i also took for granted but after VARIOUS ptr tests, using skada on 10 minute long fights the buff had roughly 40% uptime. thats nothing to really scoff at considering its a FLAT 5% damage boost. aka its roughly a 2% dps increase depending on procs which i believe is what they usually want 2 piece sets to be
ohh, before i forget. it would seem on the PTR if you logged out with the old sacred shield on before the talent changes, you would get the prot sacred shield AND the new passive.
having both i can say i feel very strong but still able to be taken down in the right hands. being able to shield myself or my allies while having a soft barrier for hard siwtches is indeed nice. i would like this bug to turn into an actual thing where they nerfed holy shield by maybe 30%ish and having the sacred shield talent unchanged.
1 less holy power means:
33% of 275% wep damage + 1727 = 92% wep damage + damage loss from a potential Templar's Verdict + any hand of light damage
+ either crusader strike, judgement, exorcism.
CS = 125% wep damage + hand of light
Judgement = [54.6% of Spell Power + 32.8% of AP]
Exorcism = [ 6,960 + 67.7% of AP ]
Average out the filler damage potentials to around 80-100% wep damage (some to compensate for holy damage ignoring armor)
So the 4set DS proc needs to hit for around 200% wep damage for it to be a single target MATCHING output source, let alone a bonus as in a damage increase. Now I'm not going to be completely moronic and say that the 4set proc needs to hit for 250% wep damage on ALL targets, that would be OP as hell. Make it do 250% (or more) to primary target and then the regular 100% to others!
This tiers set bonus was strictly single target, next tier (with the current scaling) is ONLY aoe. Now looking at the fight next tier it's fine but it's retarded that a set bonus ONLY goes one way, if there's a strict one target boss fight next tier we might as well ignore our 4piece as it currently sits and go for the offpieces which might have better itemization OR use our current 4set which is insanely strong for single target (if you're lucky) and with higher ilvl weps next tier as well you're just going to dream of the 2mill TV crits.
I agree the 2piece is very good but I hate that it procs from art of war, it makes it unreliable and it's going to clip itself so much and then you're not going to see it for 20 seconds again. I'm being overly negative though, our set bonuses are good "first wave of ptr" changes but they need a lot of adjustments and scaling changes for them to be considered "good". Increasing the duration of the 2set proc would be a good start.
I did a sim for someone a handful of pages back, and without the secondary stats added in to either weapon, the 516 had a raid finder weapon beat by about 5k DPS.
Edit: Page 149 is the post where I did that.
Last edited by Dmchomerun; 2013-06-21 at 08:17 PM.
hunting, you cant just consider one factor without the other, you can say we "lost" 33% of a tv by using ds, but here is the thing. DP and the 4 set both have a 25% chance to proc, so we can assume, that 1-4 of your DSs, and TVs, will get you either DP or the 4 set to proc, or maybe both. because of this. you can almost count it as HP generation as well, just a more random generation. after 4 dSs, you get either a dp proc, a 4 set proc, or both. this means your getting 25% of a TV out of using DS as a "generator" by fishing out procs. considering DS hits MUCH harder than CS judge, AND exo on the ptr with the 50% change, it is much better to use said procs than just go with a normal rotation and forgetting about them. your not losing anything, your just shifting around damage.
this is all rough math though, but it should be fairly correct on how our mechanics work and what have you.
oh, and with the bug fix with DP/4set and the 4 set buffed our cleave/ AOE is REDICULOUS on the ptr, i was able to pull like 300k+ dps on 4 targets without very good procs. i dare to see what i would be like on megeara adds or lei shen balls spamming DS non-stop with that 4 piece.
like i said though, because its a AOE based tier set, to have it do loads of damage single target would make it PURE op for aoe, so the best thing they could so is maybe bake the old tier set in, but as of now, for single target we would be using t16, it just wont be as big as a boost as the last tier set cause holy TVs were kinda on the side of being too strong for a tier set.
then again you never know, we could be like we were at the end of wrath and be really strong out of no where. i wouldn't mind long as it didn't follow by nerfs the next expansion to make us 100% nonviable in dps like in cata t11 >.<
---------- Post added 2013-06-22 at 03:34 PM ----------
thought of an idea for our 4 set if it becomes too much of an issue for them to balance ds, they could have it to where guardian would copy all of your abilities used for 70% of their effectiveness or something. i kinda always wanted that lil guy to do more then melee attack anyways, looks like me back at level 30 when i though using a 1.3 speed one hander with crusader was good damage cause i attacked really fast :P
Last edited by Reghame; 2013-06-22 at 07:27 PM.
i'd rather they not touch guardian. They would likely break his damage. Though him Replcating all your attacks would be a pretty interesting bonus.
Also FINAL Legendary item is an ENHANCE version of your 608 cloak. How to get? COLLECT 50 Timeless coins on the Timeless isle through either killing the 5 new world bosses OR finding hidden treasure chests / quests/ weekly/ Mob killing / Maybe rare killing. SOUNDS FUN DONT IT. I bet you get coins for winning the Pet tournaments since that is a huge feature of the Timeless isle. 2nd step is to kill the 4 Celestials aka 4 of the new world bosses. Pretty simple.
Pretty awful too.
VERY LIKELY. THE PROC EFFECT. Get ready boys this is a game changer. 0% Obv placeholder.
Item - Attacks Proc Amplification 15%CoH
Your attacks have a chance to grant Amplification, increasing your Critical Strike damage, Haste, and Mastery by 0% for until cancelled.
Ladies and gentlemen. Here we have something somewhat HORRIBLE. yes HORRIBLE for ret that can hurt us next tier. #1 Haste above 50% = Useless random haste procs for ret are also somewhat undesired. #2 We do not crit alot. #3 Mastery damage is about the only benefit we get. We MIGHT be in trouble scaling wise. If we are forced into this we likely will be having to HARD stop well before 50% haste to get a benefit from this proc. In additon while going into mastery to bump damage. This MAY help us if the attack can proc off EACH AoE hit. Scaling wise our DS set might help us.
Again this cloak is a fucking GAME CHANGER.
Now for the BAD NEWS.
There is a chance it MIGHT only proc one of the ratings randomly. or what I fear. Procs off your HIGHEST rating.
One thing we do learn from the crit spell though. The duration on this thing is 30 seconds.
There's no way it's randomly or highest priority. It has to be all together, otherwise it's crap.