1. #661
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phobed90 View Post
    Any guilds that DOESN'T cleave the protectors untill they're 40%~ are stupid, I see no reason whatsoever to not do it since you'll gain on it in every way.
    That isn't true at all, What works for some players does not work for others your method might not be the right method for everyone else it doesn't make them stupid it makes them different strategies. Hell I have seen some guilds cleave them all the way down to 10% some people are better at handling more complex strategies that require perfect execution.

    That is the difference between top 10 and top 25. I've been part of both of those numbers and the difference are quite dramatic as to what some players are capable of doing or are not capable of doing.
    Last edited by Requital; 2012-11-02 at 09:59 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Can you imagine if someone insulted you in a thread, you reported it, and I told you "sorry, wrong thread to be butthurt"?

  2. #662
    Quote Originally Posted by Requital View Post
    That isn't true at all, What works for some players does not work for others your method might not be the right method for everyone else it doesn't make them stupid it makes them different strategies. Hell I have seen some guilds cleave them all the way down to 10% some people are better at handling more complex strategies that require perfect execution.

    That is the difference between top 10 and top 25. I've been part of both of those numbers and the difference are quite dramatic as to what some players are capable of doing or are not capable of doing.

    You had me until you insinuate people cleaving them to 10% is not stupid. That is just a ton of unnecessary damage on the raid for very little dps gain. In fact it could very well be a dps loss if somebody ends up having to reset stacks early because of the added dmg.

    There's no logical reason to not cleave them down though. Which is why he says it's stupid to not cleave them and I'm inclined to agree.
    Last edited by Riptide; 2012-11-02 at 10:12 PM.

  3. #663
    Banned anaxie's Avatar
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    You guys talking about cleaving protector? is that a joke? Guess what we didn't cleave protectors and still killed him on Heroic in under 2 hours of pulls. Strats don't have to be the same. Hell raid comps certainly aren't.

    Elegon dps is going to be based on how many orbs you kill and being lucky and having half the raid die so you have higher uptime on his ZOMG burn stacks. That is where the #1 dps rank will come from majority of tier. or Even better! kill 6/7 orbs and don't touch boss. burn him max transiton hp = 0 with his with 14 stacks. BAM instant #1. So hard

    Nevermind the current raids allow for absurd dps gains with shatter/banner chains mixed with stormlashes.
    Want to rank? run all 4 of our warriors and shamans in the same raid.

    Also class stacking guilds who go for super speed kill will also rank higher. Some guilds have bare bones rosters and can't stack for absurd orb burst.

    TLDR ranks on elegon will never matter, it's based on the raid not the player mostly.


    I could say Wind lord heroic would be a skill check but again..... based on the raid not on the player. Strats will vary widely.

    Truely the only one for bragging rights on player are true patchwerks like Spiritbinder or personal skill on Twin Emperors.

    #1 Twin emps? Now that would be bragging rights as melee. Unless you tank str -_-.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2012-11-02 at 10:26 PM.

  4. #664
    Speaking of raid bosses - Are you guys still using SW on blade lord? It would seem HA would pull ahead there because of wind step + unseen strike.

  5. #665
    Banned anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
    Speaking of raid bosses - Are you guys still using SW on blade lord? It would seem HA would pull ahead there because of wind step + unseen strike.
    What do those abilties have to do with SW?

  6. #666
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    What do those abilties have to do with SW?
    Effective Usage of cds? I mean there's a good chance you were out of range or couldn't attack while you had cds up. It just seems that HA would be better to get the most out of your procs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
    Effective Usage of cds? I mean there's a good chance you were out of range or couldn't attack while you had cds up. It just seems that HA would be better to get the most out of your procs.
    HA is shit. also why would you be out of range for anything but tornadoes gauntlet on blade lord. Nevermind why you are using a wings when he clearly transitons at a set HP %.'
    and all his attacks have timers.

    Sounds like bad play

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    Field Marshal Rikhx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    You guys talking about cleaving protector? is that a joke? Guess what we didn't cleave protectors and still killed him on Heroic in under 2 hours of pulls. Strats don't have to be the same. Hell raid comps certainly aren't.

    Elegon dps is going to be based on how many orbs you kill and being lucky and having half the raid die so you have higher uptime on his ZOMG burn stacks. That is where the #1 dps rank will come from majority of tier. or Even better! kill 6/7 orbs and don't touch boss. burn him max transiton hp = 0 with his with 14 stacks. BAM instant #1. So hard

    Nevermind the current raids allow for absurd dps gains with shatter/banner chains mixed with stormlashes.
    Want to rank? run all 4 of our warriors and shamans in the same raid.

    Also class stacking guilds who go for super speed kill will also rank higher. Some guilds have bare bones rosters and can't stack for absurd orb burst.

    TLDR ranks on elegon will never matter, it's based on the raid not the player mostly.


    I could say Wind lord heroic would be a skill check but again..... based on the raid not on the player. Strats will vary widely.

    Truely the only one for bragging rights on player are true patchwerks like Spiritbinder or personal skill on Twin Emperors.

    #1 Twin emps? Now that would be bragging rights as melee. Unless you tank str -_-.
    Yes I'm sure its because of our raid setup and strategies that I have top 10 on most boss parses and I get carried to my dps numbers even though my item level is average at best compared to many others, I'm sure it is.

    Oh and I never claimed that killing Elegon without cleaving protectors was hard or impossible, I said it is stupid because lets be honest, it is.

  9. #669
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    HA is shit. also why would you be out of range for anything but tornadoes gauntlet on blade lord. Nevermind why you are using a wings when he clearly transitons at a set HP %.'
    and all his attacks have timers.

    Sounds like bad play
    Sorry for the stupid question. Is HA worse than SW *before* you get your 4 set bonus? I'm using it atm as a throwback to stacking my wings with Zealotry and trinket, should I swap to SW already and forget HA, or wait until I get my 4 set? Been reading most of the thread but not all, with apologies, I only discovered it this morning and its a long read Thankyou though, its been very interesting
    "Moral reason must learn how to make coercion its ally without running the risk of a Pyrrhic victory in which the ally exploits and negates the triumph."

  10. #670
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    HA is shit. also why would you be out of range for anything but tornadoes gauntlet on blade lord. Nevermind why you are using a wings when he clearly transitons at a set HP %.'
    and all his attacks have timers.

    Sounds like bad play
    Yes all his abilities have timers 30 seconds and 60 seconds. My point was that you are most likely going to be out of range for melee and most likely facing the wrong way for wind step, unless you're gods gift and manage to line up your autoattack and gcds so that neither are up when you turn around to face him. You'll also pop cds in the .001 seconds following a wind step. You also get to attack from .001 on the pull.

    Anyway I felt it was tight enough timing to warrant discussion.
    Last edited by Riptide; 2012-11-02 at 11:36 PM.

  11. #671
    Banned anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phobed90 View Post
    Yes I'm sure its because of our raid setup and strategies that I have top 10 on most boss parses and I get carried to my dps numbers even though my item level is average at best compared to many others, I'm sure it is.

    Oh and I never claimed that killing Elegon without cleaving protectors was hard or impossible, I said it is stupid because lets be honest, it is.
    Jade statues DPS : Raid based
    Feng DPS : Raid based somewhat because of epicenter and pushing him before too many go out however a long shield phase = LOL DPS
    SPiritbinder : Hoping a Holy pally will LoH you downstairs for one of your wings if you ask him , Does your raid need to to roll SS on tanks/Hops/Sacs? << best case of a personal skill dps patchwerk
    Spirit kings: Risk or kill? We had our first kill I wasn't about to risk a death to cowerdice personally
    Elegon: Raid based
    Will :dance/Cleave based Alot of rets tank strength too so cant parse

    No comment yet on Fear since well... it kinda just started and I'm seeing these bosses raw for the first time <no beta>

    HOWEVER wind lord / amber shaper = raid dependent on your dps numbers. Garalon likely too since less melee should mean higher dps for you.

    I'm sure you are amazing. Also lets consider some guilds raiding 4 days won't have time to farm mogu 25 during the main raid week. Mine certainly won't once we 6/6H so it's gonna be 10man farm'n'charm. While we push through the other 10 bosses.

    And no different strats aren't stupid. some are built from the ground up to fit that raid and that comp.

    However when the progression is over and we can put aside risky behavior that doesn't have potential to wipe / waste precious time better spent on new bosses not farm content. I'll throw my raid duties to another person, no caution no throttling. Then you can call yourself amazing if you can compete. For now however, I play safe. Fights are more about proper execution anyhow. Ranks don't mean dick when people are doing strats to work on safe reliable kill not extra uneeded dps when you more then exceed the enrage and transition time limits.
    Nevermind a great deal of players <requital / Butosai> are drastically undergeared atm and everyone is spread across 20 ilvls of varying equips. Most importantly some have heroic 502 weapons some have blues.

    Lastly, top 10 ? I shrug off anything thats not rank 1 as not good enough when I'm going all out. Got #11 elegon someone told me. My response "meh"

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-03 at 12:28 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
    Yes all his abilities have timers 30 seconds and 60 seconds. My point was that you are most likely going to be out of range for melee and most likely facing the wrong way for wind step, unless you're gods gift and manage to line up your autoattack and gcds so that neither are up when you turn around to face him. You'll also pop cds in the .001 seconds following a wind step. You also get to attack from .001 on the pull.

    Anyway I felt it was tight enough timing to warrant discussion.
    Use autokey, problem solved.
    Nevermind you're more likely to fit your procs into a 30 second window vs 18 seconds.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2012-11-03 at 12:29 AM.

  12. #672
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    Whatever dude, pointless to even argue with you since everything is raid based according to you, which is a sad fucking excuse in my eyes. but I'll let you stick to it. I haven't even gotten to the 490ilvl mark yet and I'm competing with ppl that are all above 492+ atleast or more, so my rankings are only gonna improve from here.

    I mean it's not like I dont use support abilities in our raids too? Any ret that raids at a higher level uses their shit on every boss, this aint new and I didnt even think it was something that was needed to be brought up. Who said I was "going all out"? I'm playing normally as always and it's fun to see I can rank so high when I'm using support abilities on cd/when needed as anyone would do. Anyways I'm done.
    Last edited by Rikhx; 2012-11-03 at 12:38 AM.

  13. #673
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phobed90 View Post
    Whatever dude, pointless to even argue with you since everything is raid based according to you, which is a sad fucking excuse in my eyes. but I'll let you stick to it. I haven't even gotten to the 490ilvl mark yet and I'm competing with ppl that are all above 492+ atleast or more, so my rankings are only gonna improve from here.

    I mean it's not like I dont use support abilities in our raids too? Any ret that raids at a higher level uses their shit on every boss, this aint new and I didnt even think it was something that was needed to be brought up. Who said I was "going all out"? I'm playing normally as always and it's fun to see I can rank so high when I'm using support abilities on cd/when needed. Anyways I'm done.
    You understand 5ilvls doesn't really matter when dps can vary 20k between burst luck and kill time missing a cd.

    Hell I held #1 baelroc by 3k dps over #2 for 3 months without a damn sulfuras. Do you feel like your opinion somehow makes you important because you raid with Kungen and all strats but yours are the wrong way. You need a reality check.

  14. #674
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
    You had me until you insinuate people cleaving them to 10% is not stupid. That is just a ton of unnecessary damage on the raid for very little dps gain. In fact it could very well be a dps loss if somebody ends up having to reset stacks early because of the added dmg.

    There's no logical reason to not cleave them down though. Which is why he says it's stupid to not cleave them and I'm inclined to agree.
    I didn't insinuate anything maybe you should read that again, By looking at logs and videos you can see what some guilds are doing and I was surprised to see what some guilds do. However you have made this completely off-topic at this point and there is no to continue.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-03 at 12:50 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Phobed90 View Post
    Whatever dude, pointless to even argue with you since everything is raid based according to you, which is a sad fucking excuse in my eyes. but I'll let you stick to it. I haven't even gotten to the 490ilvl mark yet and I'm competing with ppl that are all above 492+ atleast or more, so my rankings are only gonna improve from here.

    I mean it's not like I dont use support abilities in our raids too? Any ret that raids at a higher level uses their shit on every boss, this aint new and I didnt even think it was something that was needed to be brought up. Who said I was "going all out"? I'm playing normally as always and it's fun to see I can rank so high when I'm using support abilities on cd/when needed as anyone would do. Anyways I'm done.
    No one called you out on anything nor did anyone say you didn't get or deserve your ranking so I don't know what you are crying about but yes everything in every parse that has ever been done has been raid based like it or not some guilds choose to use a different strategy that makes certain classes shine. No one said you didn't support your raid but you are getting pretty damn defensive about that for no apparent reason.

    However you have great raid dps so you have a great chance at faster kills lining up CD's so I'm envious of that no doubt about it.
    Last edited by Requital; 2012-11-03 at 12:52 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Can you imagine if someone insulted you in a thread, you reported it, and I told you "sorry, wrong thread to be butthurt"?

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  16. #676
    Banned anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckyFuS View Post
    so much qq,,
    QQ originates from Starcraft, where the control for exiting the game was Control + Q + Q, so when raging, people would quit the game by "QQing", Coincidentally, QQ, Q_Q, and Q.Q look like eyes with tears in them, so the original meaning has been forgotten and is now thought to have to do with "crying more" or to "quit crying". qq much? oh! pwned!
    Last edited by anaxie; 2012-11-03 at 01:04 AM.

  17. #677
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    QQ originates from Warcraft 2, where the control for exiting the game was Alt + Q + Q, so when raging, people would quit the game by "QQing", Coincidentally, QQ, Q_Q, and Q.Q look like eyes with tears in them, so the original meaning has been forgotten and is now thought to have to do with "crying more" or to "quit crying". qq much? oh! pwned!
    Just trying to look old school by fixing your post.



    Any of you guys got any thoughts on Wind Lord in HoF? Not sure what's normal but we tank 5 of the mobs and the boss together until all adds are gone. Do we use SoR/HotR at all or just try keep censure on ~3 targets and simply replacing TV with DS?

  18. #678
    Well...this thread was useful for a while there, now it seems like it's full of ego and useless bickering. Thanks for the useful reference stuff.

  19. #679
    Field Marshal shoeboy4's Avatar
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    in the new patch notes i noticed a nerf to our 4pc t14
    Retribution Paladin: The 4 piece bonus now reduces Avenging Wrath’s cooldown by 65 seconds, down from 85 seconds.

  20. #680
    Banned anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shoeboy4 View Post
    in the new patch notes i noticed a nerf to our 4pc t14
    retribution paladin: The 4 piece bonus now reduces avenging wrath’s cooldown by 65 seconds, down from 85 seconds.
    nooooooooooooooooooooo[COLOR="red"]

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-03 at 02:19 AM ----------

    [/COLOR
    Unless your padding for dps on progression for wind lord you don't really need censure on multi target.

    Ideally you want do to 1 -2 -2 on the adds and everyone focus's the 1 and aoes the others everytihng should die at the same time that way.

    Multidotting on heroic would be more optimal for play tho since u will need to kill the packs to maintain his 600% damage taken buff.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2012-11-03 at 02:19 AM.

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