Anaxie's Totally Magnificent ToT Retribution T15 BiS & Theorycraft

[Fiddlesnarf]

Hey guys, I just got Dread Shadow Ring http://www.wowhead.com/item=86322

I already have these 2.
http://www.wowhead.com/item=90862
http://www.wowhead.com/item=93246

Its a Strength upgrade, but would lose a bunch of Haste. What do you all think?
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...snarf/advanced

[metasaigneur]

chestplate

The choice being because of the socket bonuses ? Cause Set helm has a 180Str bonus versus feng helm being crit and vice versa for the chest. So Even if the helm brings ~300haste; you basically lose more than 300STR

Am I getting this right ? (because I have 4piece and feng helm and kings chest and I came to this conclusion too, but I'm sure I'll find here confirmation on the reason why to do it)

Hey guys, I just got Dread Shadow Ring http://www.wowhead.com/item=86322

I already have these 2.
http://www.wowhead.com/item=90862
http://www.wowhead.com/item=93246

Its a Strength upgrade, but would lose a bunch of Haste. What do you all think?
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...snarf/advanced

Replace Bloodseeker since you gain 44STR, 296crit, lose 127haste assuming you reforge crit away on dread shadow.
Bloodseeker only has 323Haste, and you gain 197haste via reforging the crit away on dread shadow. 127haste lost is not such a big loss is it ?
So assuming you benefit fully from the hit and regain your expertise elsewhere, it should be an overall gain.
Then again, try it out with your own stat-weights if your want to be thoroughly sure

[Balhale]

Only for a brief period of time when you have Guardian, Trinkets and Mogu Potion up does Judgement become the stronger option.

The rest of the time CS + Mastery > Judgement.
Sanctified Wrath on it's own does nothing to change that (in fact makes CS better, 20% more of something that is already doing more damage, that is)

Actually not true for most people. In full T14H BiS CS just barely edges out Judgment in dmg with mastery. I suppose if you have a weapon that is substantially better than the rest of your gear CS might pull ahead earlier, but for most people Judgment is more damage. For me the difference was about 6k in favor of Judgment last I checked, including the CS mastery hit.

[ExtremeActionTess]

So I just picked up Shin'ka normal, and I'm about to obtain that Prismatic Socket aswell. Would, in that case, Shin'ka normal be better than Heroic Starshatter (no expertise racials involved)?

[Riptide]

So I just picked up Shin'ka normal, and I'm about to obtain that Prismatic Socket aswell. Would, in that case, Shin'ka normal be better than Heroic Starshatter (no expertise racials involved)?

I'm pretty sure it's not, iirc it's something like 400 streg vs 1k weapon dmg. So it'd be around 560 streg vs 1k wdmg. Just sim it and see Since I'm assuming you'll be using a 320 haste gem and it's value is relative to the rest of your gear.

[Razeal]

So I just picked up Shin'ka normal, and I'm about to obtain that Prismatic Socket aswell. Would, in that case, Shin'ka normal be better than Heroic Starshatter (no expertise racials involved)?

Heroic starshatter > Normal Shin'ka, due to weapon damage.

[Nadaira]

Hey guys,

what's the point on preferring the off-set shoulders over set shoulders? Didn't think a lot about it 'till now, but since i noticed, our DK is going for 5pc with the DK set being the same as the paladin set, i got curious. Wouldn't it be better to take the elegon gloves as offset piece since these have an additional socket while the setgloves do not. Also, the stats on Un'sok shoulders/set gloves are quite crappy.

Been looking for the last 2 hours to find any comment on that, but can't seem to find one. :/

[Improtaight]

Hi,

I got the chestpiece from Garalon 10man normal, http://www.wowhead.com/item=89832 , ilvl 496
now, yesterday i got the LFR tier chestpiece, ilvl 483, quetsion is, seeing as i have the LFR tier hands, if i put the chest on i will get the 2set bonus which is the increased TV dmg, is it worth it?

going for lower ilvl (chest 496 -> 483), less stats, but get the increase on TV???? although the 483 has haste instead of hit on it, so i really dont know!

help and mathematicians highly appreciated

thanks,

[dennisdkramer]

Hi,

I got the chestpiece from Garalon 10man normal, http://www.wowhead.com/item=89832 , ilvl 496
now, yesterday i got the LFR tier chestpiece, ilvl 483, quetsion is, seeing as i have the LFR tier hands, if i put the chest on i will get the 2set bonus which is the increased TV dmg, is it worth it?

going for lower ilvl (chest 496 -> 483), less stats, but get the increase on TV???? although the 483 has haste instead of hit on it, so i really dont know!

help and mathematicians highly appreciated

thanks,

The best/fastest/easiest way to know is to sim yourself with and without it and see which is higher. Offhand, I'd say that it probably should be worth switching for the 2p.

[thegoodrogue]

Hey guys,

what's the point on preferring the off-set shoulders over set shoulders? Didn't think a lot about it 'till now, but since i noticed, our DK is going for 5pc with the DK set being the same as the paladin set, i got curious. Wouldn't it be better to take the elegon gloves as offset piece since these have an additional socket while the setgloves do not. Also, the stats on Un'sok shoulders/set gloves are quite crappy.

Been looking for the last 2 hours to find any comment on that, but can't seem to find one. :/

I'm using 5 set.

[Arcs]

Hey, got a question regarding 2 items. Here's my armoury: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ision/advanced

And the question is about shoulders and lfr shin'ka. Currently I'm wearing pvp shoulders due to nice amounts of haste but I also have http://www.wowhead.com/item=86213 gemmed and enchanted and Starshatter normal. Been playing with Starshatter for a long time now but got bored of it and wanted to check how Shin'ka works out. Should I change any of those 2 items?

[Retfoo]

Upgraded Normal Starshatter is better than upgraded LFR shin'ka. The reason being straight up weapon dmg it is your single highest priority in upping your damage more so then the loss of strength from using Starshatter in comparison to the gemed LFR Shin'ka. the extra weapon dmg surpasses it. the next upgrade would be normal Shinka then Heroic starshatter then heroic Shin'ka. upgrading respectfully.

---------- Post added 2013-01-03 at 12:22 PM ----------

Hey guys,

what's the point on preferring the off-set shoulders over set shoulders? Didn't think a lot about it 'till now, but since i noticed, our DK is going for 5pc with the DK set being the same as the paladin set, i got curious. Wouldn't it be better to take the elegon gloves as offset piece since these have an additional socket while the setgloves do not. Also, the stats on Un'sok shoulders/set gloves are quite crappy.

Been looking for the last 2 hours to find any comment on that, but can't seem to find one. :/

i believe this has been touched on why in a previous question but its probably buried 30 pages back im not aware of your current gear set but for the most part your talking BiS heroic gear peices and by that time your gear offers so much extra hit and haste that its more viable to look for the stats next in line and to get as much strength and mastery probably overtaking your highest stat priority by that time in respects to filling out a gear slot. Haste should more than be accounted for by that time gaining the extra strength and mastery at that gear level is probably where the gains are. its not that 5set is horrible its just that its edged out by a better offpeice item no 1 peice of non trinket or weapon is going to be a OMG DMG increase tho its just maximizing output to perfection at that point. appologies if i am either wrong or you feel im condescending just the conclusions ive come to and what i think i remember from previous posts if anyone cares to correct me by all means.

[claisa]

very helpful thankyou

[Panzerlol]

Another question: Bloodseekers Exalted klaxxi ring 489 OR Dread shadow N 496 ? http://www.wowhead.com/item=86322 or http://www.wowhead.com/item=90862

I checked it in wowreforge ( http://www.wowreforge.com ) by JUST swapping rings, and then doing perfect reforging gave:
Going from klaxxi ring TO Dread Shadow:
- 152 haste @1.69 = -256,88
- 239 mast @1.15 = -270,07
+ 503 crit @1.13 = + 568,39
+ 44 str @3.17 = +139,48

=== + 180,92
(Stat weights is based on last sim 2 weeks ago, nothing major has changed)

So it's a net gain. But what about you other rets, what have you chosen?

Is this worth it in your opinion?

EDIT: Sorry, didn't see this exact question answered above. So, putting on the new ring it is then!

[anaxie]

Hey guys, I just got Dread Shadow Ring http://www.wowhead.com/item=86322

I already have these 2.
http://www.wowhead.com/item=90862
http://www.wowhead.com/item=93246

Its a Strength upgrade, but would lose a bunch of Haste. What do you all think?
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...snarf/advanced

ilvl wins use it replace bloodseeker

---------- Post added 2013-01-06 at 02:04 AM ----------

I'm using 5 set.

ur doing it wrong then

---------- Post added 2013-01-06 at 02:10 AM ----------

Hey guys,

what's the point on preferring the off-set shoulders over set shoulders? Didn't think a lot about it 'till now, but since i noticed, our DK is going for 5pc with the DK set being the same as the paladin set, i got curious. Wouldn't it be better to take the elegon gloves as offset piece since these have an additional socket while the setgloves do not. Also, the stats on Un'sok shoulders/set gloves are quite crappy.

Been looking for the last 2 hours to find any comment on that, but can't seem to find one. :/

Anyone saying too much haste is a moron. The only reason is because with tier shoulders you will end up with way too much hit in full bis. If you are not a heroic raider and not a allaince goat you could prollly get away using the Tier shoulders and 5 set but optimally you would have Spirit kings H chest which should be quite easy to obtain by now in the tier.

When you start having 12/16H on farm you should and almost full BiS you should then swap to tier chest when you begin to run out of options for dropping hit. If you armory me I'm currently in a situation with all but 6 items being BiS and misshaped H shoulders in bank. I'm sitting at 7.9% hit being a goat with crit to cloak and one str/stamina gem. I currently NEED to drop tier shoulders for a 496 or 509 tier chest ASAP. Dread shadow ring was unexpected and threw this chaos into motion. Unexpected upgrade i didn't plan on getting before our warriors /dks but charms work sometimes...

[Peking_Man]

Heroic nullification greathelm vs normal tier helm?

[Megraam]

Hey, Ghostcrawler just offered some solutions for our low sustained damage versus high burst:
Q:

Retribution paladins bust is high but sustain damage is low compared to other classes, any chance on a buff on sustain dps?

A:

This is common feedback, but not sure how to fix. Wings to 10% or a 5 min timer? Ick?

[Retfoo]

Hey, Ghostcrawler just offered some solutions for our low sustained damage versus high burst:
Q:

A:

well if u make wings 10% u have to shorten the CD or extend the length of the dmg. if u add more dmg to wings u need to make it a longer cd if u do that u mess with 4pc this tier and it would be something that couldnt be implemented till a little later into 5.2 because rets would just use 4pc from this tier to reduce the cooldown and have more dps. realistically they would have to effect how mastery and or haste % works for example 10k haste is approximately 24% atm....5k mastery is somewhere around 30% in order to create more sustain thats probably where u would find the easiest solution in creating more balance amongst some of the other melee however in around the same gear quality as other BiS or 500ilvl + ret isnt doing that poorly and on some fights if played well its pretty beast...its not a mage but it isnt a Mainspec dps class u cant really expect hybrids to be at the top it is really fun to play tho trust me i know. And from a Ret Dps Mainspec P.O.V i desperately hope they do change the way mastery and or haste is effected doesnt have to be a huge increase in order to balance it out a little better either. i dont think you can really play with the CD's too much without completely re-tooling them and that is almost always recipe for disaster. Just my opinion tho much like an butthole everyone has one.

[Reith]

however in around the same gear quality as other BiS or 500ilvl + ret isnt doing that poorly and on some fights if played well its pretty beast...its not a mage but it isnt a Mainspec dps class u cant really expect hybrids to be at the top it is really fun to play tho trust me i know.

So what if it's "not doing that poorly"? It's not in the same league as a fury warrior, affliction warlock or arcane mage. Those specs are doing much better in PVE right now. If those specs were toned down a bit, there wouldn't be that much of an issue.

[Retfoo]

So what if it's "not doing that poorly"? It's not in the same league as a fury warrior, affliction warlock or arcane mage. Those specs are doing much better in PVE right now. If those specs were toned down a bit, there wouldn't be that much of an issue.

well like i said mages warlocks pretty much expected to be the top every tier anyways just because they are pure dps class. thats not to say that rogues dont need a tweak and seemingly getting some anyways ....but were hybrid. and as much as warriors and DKs are kinda hybrids too you are just never gonna see ret get the love we got back in ICC where everything was broken for us. I also dont think blizz will ever really even us out the same as warriors without buffing mastery for us. its the end of a tier almost tho so who knows what the new set bonus will be and as for this tier if blizzard has shown any consistency its that changes dont really happen unless they feel they need to and its not something they feel is broken. I agree we arent as strong as other melee classes though i just dont think you are going to see anything done about it until the very earliest 5.2.