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  1. #81
    Legendary! anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balhale View Post
    No it isn't. I just tested on beta with 31.41% mastery. On the internal test dummy with the debuff present hand of light hits for 31.41% of cs. On the regular 90 test dummy with no debuff present hand of light hits for 31.41% of cs.

    As far as stormlash goes, sure, it might raise hastes values. But we don't sim assuming buffs for the player that are from a single class or go on a single player like tricks, cata DI, unholy frenzy, stormlash, etc because raid comps may not have a shaman.
    You just can't listen to anyones opinoin can you. I'd rather someone replaced you on simcraft personally. You have a vile attitude and take no criticism or advice.

    This was pulled from EJ btw.

    ---------- Post added 2012-09-01 at 10:27 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Balhale View Post
    1. Yes, logs would be nice instead of of screenshots of recount. If a number for the damage of some ability in simc looks off, tell me. If you think the priority list being used is wrong, say so.

    2. You've obviously looked up my armory - do tell, what gear choices and stat balance choices am I making incorrectly? By the way, not being 8/8H doesn't mean I don't know how to play ret - my guild (in it for friends, not progression) has lost half our raid team in the last 2 months including the gm, co gm, and 2 officers.

    Being more experienced does not make you two always correct if you disagree with me - as shown with anaxie's misconception of SancWrath.

    I was being subtle but fine. You are enchanting and gemming haste on live currently point for point 50 haste 50 strength. That is wrong. A Massive dps drop.

    You clearly only started the class around firelands when you dinged 85 meanwhile me and Requital have completed EVERY BOSS IN THE GAME TBC - NOW. Requital did vanilla and naxx KT 40 aswell.

    50 haste for 50 strength on live is a real concern when you are the simulationcraft developer. You aren't even developing your own character properly and you want to do something as complex as simcraft for the community? I'm not trying to be mean honestly but it's becoming extremely frustrating.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2012-09-01 at 10:28 PM.

  2. #82
    So, the internal test dummy debuffs are broken. Put up CoE on a dummy and Hand of Light got 8% from it both on beta and live. However, when I tested it with a warlock and spriest they only got 5% from it both on beta and live. What we have here is a bug. I'll restore it to SimC, but realize that it is currently bugged.

    ---------- Post added 2012-09-01 at 03:34 PM ----------

    SimulationCraft is all volunteer. Feel free to take it up yourself.

  3. #83
    Legendary! anaxie's Avatar
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    A thank you would be nice next time. Not everything is black and white. Keep an open mind.

    Extensive experience and knowledge of the class > sims

    It's partially why blizzard ignores simcraft.

    Also HoL being affected is no bug, 8% is tho. Lets just keep that on the D-low. damn sure we need the dps boost.

    Would you mind checking the rogue poision debuff also. Since in a raid asking a lock to CoE vs a rogue is bound to be ignored.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2012-09-01 at 10:42 PM.

  4. #84
    Actually I played a different paladin in wrath, but whatever. I repeat that your experience with TBC ret has zero bearing on MoP ret. May I ask what you are basing your claim that using 2 50 haste over 50 str enchants (not gems) is a dps loss on?

  5. #85
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    Is this thread a joke? lol

  6. #86
    Legendary! anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charleslol View Post
    Is this thread a joke? lol
    Not sure but when I told you what rings to wear that seemed like a joke. Maybe this thread can help you in MoP too!

    ---------- Post added 2012-09-01 at 10:47 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Balhale View Post
    Actually I played a different paladin in wrath, but whatever. I repeat that your experience with TBC ret has zero bearing on MoP ret. May I ask what you are basing your claim that using 2 50 haste over 50 str enchants (not gems) is a dps loss on?
    Mop gems have double secondary stats vs prime for a reason.

    haste > Strength point for point I'm still skeptical in simcraft. Now I would believe TWO points which is what gems provide point for point is worth it.

    Both me and Requital have concerns about the stats weights at 90 BIS. Personally mine is that str is undervalued.
    If haste was that OP I think my damage would be alot more op during madness or Heroism.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2012-09-01 at 10:51 PM.

  7. #87
    @Req

    You asked what I wanted from you guys to help make SimC better. I told you. It's not irrelevant.

    Further, how is it inappropriate for me to say that you guys can be wrong but not for you to say that I flat out have zero experience and have no idea what I'm doing with ret?

  8. #88
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    I just think it's funny how serious you are taking Ret TC when we are never brought to raids for our DPS.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Not sure but when I told you what rings to wear that seemed like a joke.

    ---------- Post added 2012-09-01 at 10:47 PM ----------



    Mop gems have double secondary stats vs prime for a reason.
    I know, Blizzard doesn't want everyone to gem all reds like cata right? Did you know that fury has crit > strength on live right now?

  10. #90
    Legendary! anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charleslol View Post
    I just think it's funny how serious you are taking Ret TC when we are never brought to raids for our DPS.
    So ret is the only class with utility? Whatever you say. Did Vodka threaten to bench all rets in mop and you are angry at something?

    ---------- Post added 2012-09-01 at 10:56 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Balhale View Post
    I know, Blizzard doesn't want everyone to gem all reds like cata right? Did you know that fury has crit > strength on live right now?
    Did you know on live ultraxion and other bosses die in 3 minutes or less and you only get one MAYBE two cds the first being fully lusted.

    We also cannot gain enough haste @ 85 vs 90 so it's worthless. It leads to empty dead gcds, that is not extra dps.

    Sure it will fill when we can hit 23% haste in mop not 12% ish like live nevermind we have execution sentence as a major filler.

    Also this just in! We aren't fury warriors? crit has nothing to do with the function of SoB with haste.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2012-09-01 at 10:58 PM.

  11. #91
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balhale View Post
    @Req

    You asked what I wanted from you guys to help make SimC better. I told you. It's not irrelevant.

    Further, how is it inappropriate for me to say that you guys can be wrong but not for you to say that I flat out have zero experience and have no idea what I'm doing with ret?
    No one said you have zero experience!

    Based on your Armory and your Heroic Experience maybe you played a different class but your Paladin shows you lack experience.

    I even said maybe you played a different class. But you apparently just want to pick arguments and have no real want to do much else. So get your help somewhere else and I'll gladly take my infraction with an exit when I tell you I'll wave to your pathetic last place DPS from the top in MoP. I'm done with you and your lack of experience & personality and I hope you choke on your shit dps and theory crafting.
    Last edited by Requital; 2012-09-01 at 11:01 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Can you imagine if someone insulted you in a thread, you reported it, and I told you "sorry, wrong thread to be butthurt"?

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    So ret is the only class with utility? Whatever you say. Did Vodka threaten to bench all rets in mop and you are angry at something?[CO
    Can't really discuss what class comps we are using on beta for obvious reasons.

    I just didn't understand why you started shitting on Balhale for no apparent reason. Maybe I missed something in another thread or another forum. But from what I can see he is just trying something different than you and you immediately start attacking his credibility.

  13. #93
    Legendary! anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charleslol View Post
    Can't really discuss what class comps we are using on beta for obvious reasons.

    I just didn't understand why you started shitting on Balhale for no apparent reason. Maybe I missed something in another thread or another forum. But from what I can see he is just trying something different than you and you immediately start attacking his credibility.
    ? I proved to him % spelldamage is still affecting ret. Maybe you could add some + 50reading to your stats?

    Also I could care less what comps vodka are doing congratulations! Could it be mass warrior skullbanners? Or mass casters! I'll still finish the same heroic tier one month later with only a 16 hour raid week.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2012-09-01 at 11:11 PM.

  14. #94
    Sigh. We've been through this. Less haste on gear makes it more valuable, not less. Diminishing returns and all plus more of one stat boosts all the others.

  15. #95
    I am Murloc! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    jumping in on the offset shoulder vs chest.

    Choosing offset shoulders will give you 946 STR + gem (red) 60 STR bonus
    What we stand to lose/gain is whatever the gem differance is +/- socket bonus.
    If we ignore blue socket (prob will) then we'll miss the 60+ str socket bonus but still able to get 160 STR or 320 Haste from gem. 1106 STR or 946 STR + 160 haste (in addition to other stats on the offset shoulder.

    Choosing tier shoulders will give you 946 STR + gem (blue) 60 STR bonus
    If we take the red socket (def will) then we'll get 1004 STR + 160 STR or 80 STR + 160 haste. + the stats on the tier shoulders.

    Shoulders:
    Tier http://mop.wowhead.com/item=87103 - gives us 1106 STR, 684 hit (40% can be reforged to mastery) and 604 haste.
    Offset http://mop.wowhead.com/item=86986 - gives us 1166 STR, 576 Mastery, 273.6 haste and 410.4 crit.

    Taking offset shoulders will give:
    + 60 STR
    - 330.4 Haste
    + 410.4 Crit


    Then look at chest.
    Tier - http://mop.wowhead.com/item=87099
    offset - http://mop.wowhead.com/item=87048

    Tier gives 1220 STR + 2 yellow sockets and 120 crit socket bonus.
    We prob wouldn't get socket bonus so putting 2x 160 str gems there.
    1380 STR, 727 haste, 362.8 mastery (reforged) and 544.2 crit.

    Offset gives 1134 STR, red + yellow socket and 120 STR socket bonus.
    We would take the socket bonus so throwing in a 160 STR gem and a 80 STR + 160 haste gem.
    Offset would then give us 1134 STR + 120 STR (socket bonus) + 240 STR (gems) and 160 haste (gem)
    845 Haste + 677 mastery.

    taking offset chest will give us:
    + 114 STR
    + 278 haste
    + 314.2 mastery

    - 544.2 crit


    So let's compare the gains from taking offset Chest vs tier Chest and offset Shoulders VS tier Shoulders

    Taking offset shoulders will give:
    + 60 STR
    - 330.4 Haste
    + 410.4 Crit

    taking offset chest will give us:
    + 114 STR
    + 278 haste
    + 314.2 mastery
    - 544.2 crit


    Which of the two would you take?
    Last edited by Huntingbear_grimbatol; 2012-09-01 at 11:12 PM.
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  16. #96
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charleslol View Post
    just trying something different than you and you immediately start attacking his credibility.
    So why don't he just try to use Exorcism as top prirority and then Judgement, Move TV to last priority regardless how much HoP he has. Shoot maybe he should gem hit and haste while he is at it. Thinking outside the box like that doesn't help you in wow and even you know that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Can you imagine if someone insulted you in a thread, you reported it, and I told you "sorry, wrong thread to be butthurt"?

  17. #97
    Legendary! anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balhale View Post
    Sigh. We've been through this. Less haste on gear makes it more valuable, not less. Diminishing returns and all plus more of one stat boosts all the others.
    Not at the cost of 50strength 50haste. Not on live.

    ---------- Post added 2012-09-01 at 11:16 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    jumping in on the offset shoulder vs chest.

    Choosing offset shoulders will give you 946 STR + gem (red) 60 STR bonus
    What we stand to lose/gain is whatever the gem differance is +/- socket bonus.
    If we ignore blue socket (prob will) then we'll miss the 60+ str socket bonus but still able to get 160 STR or 320 Haste from gem. 1106 STR or 946 STR + 160 haste (in addition to other stats on the offset shoulder.

    Choosing tier shoulders will give you 946 STR + gem (blue) 60 STR bonus
    If we take the red socket (def will) then we'll get 1004 STR + 160 STR or 80 STR + 160 haste. + the stats on the tier shoulders.

    Shoulders:
    Tier http://mop.wowhead.com/item=87103 - gives us 1106 STR, 684 hit (40% can be reforged to mastery) and 604 haste.
    Offset http://mop.wowhead.com/item=86986 - gives us 1166 STR, 576 Mastery, 273.6 haste and 410.4 crit.

    Taking offset shoulders will give:
    + 60 STR
    - 330.4 Haste
    + 410.4 Crit


    Then look at chest.
    Tier - http://mop.wowhead.com/item=87099
    offset - http://mop.wowhead.com/item=87048

    Tier gives 1220 STR + 2 yellow sockets and 120 crit socket bonus.
    We prob wouldn't get socket bonus so putting 2x 160 str gems there.
    1380 STR, 727 haste, 362.8 mastery (reforged) and 544.2 crit.

    Offset gives 1134 STR, red + yellow socket and 120 STR socket bonus.
    We would take the socket bonus so throwing in a 160 STR gem and a 80 STR + 160 haste gem.
    Offset would then give us 1134 STR + 120 STR (socket bonus) + 240 STR (gems) and 160 haste (gem)
    845 Haste + 677 mastery.

    taking offset chest will give us:
    + 114 STR
    + 278 haste
    + 314.2 mastery

    - 544.2 crit


    So let's compare the gains from taking offset Chest vs tier Chest and offset Shoulders VS tier Shoulders

    Taking offset shoulders will give:
    + 60 STR
    - 330.4 Haste
    + 410.4 Crit

    taking offset chest will give us:
    + 114 STR
    + 278 haste
    + 314.2 mastery
    - 544.2 crit


    Which of the two would you take?
    Lemme look at that...

  18. #98
    I am Murloc! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    Please do :P
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  19. #99
    Legendary! anaxie's Avatar
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    I'll be damned it just might be.

    Are you factoring sockets or no? I didn't see any +hit for a etched gem in your post.

    This why we have BiS lists XD that and ironing out trinkets/ forges.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2012-09-01 at 11:25 PM.

  20. #100
    Except you are wrong about the gemming and the hit - that hit on the tier shoulders is worth zero. We are slightly over hit cap without the tier shoulders in full BiS reforging out of hit on every piece that has it. You then don't include the extra mastery on the off set shoulders (???).

    We will match those yellow sockets. 320 haste is flat out better than 160 strength. So add another 640 haste and 120 crit to the tier chest at the cost of 320 strength. Offset chest we gem 80 str 160 haste and 320 haste, so add 480 haste and 80 str instead of 240 strength and 160 haste.

    Offset shoulders:
    + 60 STR
    - 330.4 Haste
    + 302.4 mastery
    + 410.4 Crit

    Offset chest:
    + 114 STR
    - 42 haste
    +314.2 mastery
    -664.2 crit
    Last edited by Balhale; 2012-09-01 at 11:21 PM.

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