Anaxie's Totally Magnificent ToT Retribution T15 BiS & Theorycraft

[Alenarien]

both set bonuses involve RNG.

the class devs are an absolute joke. it's like they dont even listen to player feedback.

well guys, have fun ranking on one pull, and not even coming close on the next! such is life when your set bonuses revolve around random procs.

also, this is a pretty blatant nudge by blizz to get us stacking mastery over haste. which is lame, I really like how the rotation flows with a lot of haste. it would be funny if heroic t14 is a dps increase over t15, with a haste setup.

Since Cata/Holy power we've been a class that revolves around either Procs/DPS cds, or both; something that I can't really consider to be any sort of 'improvement' as such. Hopefully next patch fixes a few things (Unlikely as GC has said that Paladins are 'about exactly where he wants them to be' right now), but I doubt it. Clunkiness, proc-dependency and CD dependency await i'm sure, which is why in terms of PvP at least, i'm considering another class at the moment; having persevered since WOTLK.

[Moradim]

to underscore the problem, the class DOES NOT NEED MORE RNG.

I had enough of that in firelands. rank on one fight, dont come close on the next.

why? procs.

and now we have an entire tier set involving rng.

[anaxie]

to underscore the problem, the class DOES NOT NEED MORE RNG.

I had enough of that in firelands. rank on one fight, dont come close on the next.

why? procs.

and now we have an entire tier set involving rng.

If you don't like it stop playing ret. Dstorm reset was RNG and that was fantastic. This is another set but this RNG also depends on how exceptional the player is the micromanage the procs.

This set with less emphasis on COOLDOWN dependency is exactly what retribution needed.

[Moradim]

If you don't like it stop playing ret. Dstorm reset was RNG and that was fantastic. This is another set but this RNG also depends on how exceptional the player is the micromanage the procs.

This set with less emphasis on COOLDOWN dependency is exactly what retribution needed.

heroic t14 will remain BIS, especially with no 5.2 upgrading, im 99% sure of that unless they nerf it. 40% chance to do holy damage on a tv (and procs will be wasted with this bonus) doesnt come close to beating the avenging wrath bonus.

not to mention on any multi target fight your dps would be gimped, take wind lord for example.

[anaxie]

heroic t14 will remain BIS, especially with no 5.2 upgrading, im 99% sure of that unless they nerf it. 40% chance to do holy damage on a tv (and procs will be wasted with this bonus) doesnt come close to beating the avenging wrath bonus.

not to mention on any multi target fight your dps would be gimped, take wind lord for example.

ACTUALLY mass exo spreading the debuff INCREASES OUR AOE the 4 set just Emphasises rets single target strength but focus on the negetive if you will.

And I'm not sure why you believe GC's comment on wasted procs. You wont be wasting TV procs unless you are a bad player and the choiceto take DP ensures none are wasted when u have to refresh inqu so TV can be fired before more CS's

[Retfoo]

So basically Ret's for the most part in forums have been crying about us being too bursty and we need more sustain. So blizz offers it to us next tier and people are crying about it because its going to be a little bit harder to play. I'm actually really interested to see how this plays out this could potentially make us incredibly strong single target. And while yes there will be classes that will do much less to achieve more most of us dont play ret because its incredibly over powered, you play it because you enjoy it and if you know your class well enough most rets can stand out as the melee to beat. You also dont know what stat weights will be by that time or for that matter what boss encounters will be like. AOE dmg being potentially down just so single target can be up more....hmmm downside? not much of one if at all. Focus the complaints where they are potentially needed like making that buff go from 6 to 8seconds. Understand that this change could be fantastic and be glad they didnt mess with cooldowns. were still gonna have great burst but now we have the ability to potentially sustain it.

[Reith]

Seriously guys, the sky is not falling. It depends on the encounters and how good Ret single target DPS actually is compared to others. I don't mind being the top (or close to the top) single target DPS if it means being mediocre at AOE/cleaving.

[Neldarie]

Set bonuses sound too good to be true especially with all the double-triple dipness. We all know Blizz and their stance on those kinda things from the past

HA prolly way to go with new tier weapons and those CS/exo procs.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Seriously guys, the sky is not falling. It depends on the encounters and how good Ret single target DPS actually is compared to others. I don't mind being the top (or close to the top) single target DPS if it means being mediocre at AOE/cleaving.

except we're not top single target dps on any straight up fight.

[Reith]

except we're not top single target dps on any straight up fight.

This is not 5.2.

[Veliane]

HA prolly way to go with new tier weapons and those CS/exo procs.

I don't know about that.

SW's hammer > cs(2pc) > hammer > tv puts out more damage in the long run and has a longer duration to boot, protentially a pair more of godly Holy Verdicts under the influence of 20% damage.
DP allows you to not waste Holy Verdict(tm) procs due to Inq maintenance.

HA is a bunch of filler > TV > filler > TV on a shorter duration.. doesnt seem as useful for this tier..

[Neldarie]

DP is already worthless trash lvling talent and not to be considered for any serious raiding.

HA already competes with SW (and yes outperforms it when stars allign). The new set bonuses and weapon dmg will further down the potency of hammer.
HA brings out the CS>TV>exo>TV>CS>TV spam that further utilizes 5.2 tier.

[Lychnuchus]

Just went through the last 10 pages and didn't find any answer,
so sry for asking this if it has already been answered but:

What's current best trinket Comp for Ret?

2/2 Upped DMC + 2/2 HC Lei Shen's?
2/2 Upped DMC + 2/2 HC Darkmist Vortex?
2/2 HC Darkmist + 2/2 HC Lei Shen's ?

[metasaigneur]

DP is already worthless trash lvling talent and not to be considered for any serious raiding.

HA already competes with SW (and yes outperforms it when stars allign). The new set bonuses and weapon dmg will further down the potency of hammer.
HA brings out the CS>TV>exo>TV>CS>TV spam that further utilizes 5.2 tier.

That will need a 3.2 CS to work out perfectly and still pose the question wether to re-apply exo debuff and lose and holyTV or vice versa. So yeah, in a perfect world, where Exo debuff is extended to ~8ish seconds, HA would be optimal if CS is on a ~3sec CD.
Both are not the case atm.
DP adds RNG b ut may allow series of HolyTVs that would skyrocket our sustained/burst (luck-dependent) to all of it and SW has arguments to (better micro-management of debuf and CS-proc, larger span of HP generator to use fully buffed holyTV, etc..).
Those talents must be tested out before saying one or the other is the only way to go.

[Jämeson]

Just went through the last 10 pages and didn't find any answer,
so sry for asking this if it has already been answered but:

What's current best trinket Comp for Ret?

2/2 Upped DMC + 2/2 HC Lei Shen's?
2/2 Upped DMC + 2/2 HC Darkmist Vortex?
2/2 HC Darkmist + 2/2 HC Lei Shen's ?

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-the-Mists-WIP

[Lychnuchus]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-the-Mists-WIP

You have my thanks!

[Reith]

That will need a 3.2 CS to work out perfectly and still pose the question wether to re-apply exo debuff and lose and holyTV or vice versa. So yeah, in a perfect world, where Exo debuff is extended to ~8ish seconds, HA would be optimal if CS is on a ~3sec CD.
Both are not the case atm.
DP adds RNG b ut may allow series of HolyTVs that would skyrocket our sustained/burst (luck-dependent) to all of it and SW has arguments to (better micro-management of debuf and CS-proc, larger span of HP generator to use fully buffed holyTV, etc..).
Those talents must be tested out before saying one or the other is the only way to go.

How would it need a 3.2 CS? It works at any amount of haste.

[Neldarie]

Disclaimer: this is only true for raiding where you push DPS to the limit (aka when you try to fit into the way raid swings not the raid swinging your way just cuz you're special).

You do not need perfect world to know which talent is better knowing how your class swings.

Currently its SW(more consistant)=HA(best overall when lucky)>>>DP.

With changes in minds + gear scaling its safe to say with t15 4set it will be HA>SW>DP (garajal kinda mimics that).

[Reith]

Disclaimer: this is only true for raiding where you push DPS to the limit (aka when you try to fit into the way raid swings not the raid swinging your way just cuz you're special).

You do not need perfect world to know which talent is better knowing how your class swings.

Currently its SW(more consistant)=HA(best overall when lucky)>>>DP.

With changes in minds + gear scaling its safe to say with t15 4set it will be HA>SW>DP (garajal kinda mimics that).

In T14, Holy Avenger pulls ahead in a more consistent AOE situation, for sure and Sanctified Wrath is usually the best pick for single target in T14 4-piece. T15 however makes Sanctified Wrath the toughest choice because you have to pick between Exorcism and Crusader Strike and that makes it more complicated. Either way you're missing out on a T15 set bonus, which makes it tough to pick Sanctified Wrath.

[Neldarie]

In T14, Holy Avenger pulls ahead in a more consistent AOE situation, for sure and Sanctified Wrath is usually the best pick for single target in T14 4-piece. T15 however makes Sanctified Wrath the toughest choice because you have to pick between Exorcism and Crusader Strike and that makes it more complicated. Either way you're missing out on a T15 set bonus, which makes it tough to pick Sanctified Wrath.

No that was actually about single target only. And yes towards t15 play you would want as least hammers/judgments as possible as fillers which makes SW an obvious loser. Most raids don't have more than 2 banners available to them or a long-term burst opportunity w-o interruption, which is already reason enough to make HA abit more appealing. No trinkets last more than 20seconds and GoAK takes a few to ramp-up.