anyone been on PTR with the latest build? I can't for the life of me get above 100k dps in a 25man raid with flasks and trying to manage T14 bonuses and the fight mechanics...
Ofc 300 ms doesn't help and playing from EU on US based PTR realms... anyhow!
How are you other rets finding PTR with the latest build without T11 prot pre-pull thing?
And you can usually wait to do it in a timeframe where it won't be negated by those but doing so unsyncs it with at the very least Lei shiens and enough pushbacks on a long fight can cost you an entire cd.
Or you get instances like Blade lord where the only way to get a full SW in is to pop it after a strike. Most of the time you're gonna be running out of temprest throwing hammers at him capping your HP. It's not entirely useless talent wise considering a rank 13th I put up recently even while fumbling with talents during my first cooldown because of super ninja pull. While I usually laugh at rank 13ths compared to 1s the whole Asian Ilvl thing has shit pretty badly skewed so... yeah.
Anyhow back ontopic on stuff like blade lord doing more dps would be easy without a ton front loaded into burst. I'm sure we will see a few later on. IN the end I don't really care about burst or sustained I care about the big picture just like you. I'm kinda fond of Hammerdin time too .
TLDR I agree with you burst / sustained doesn't matter a ton but we still need to have consistent single target / aoe compared to the best spec of each class.
---------- Post added 2013-02-23 at 03:57 AM ----------
I do wonder how widely used this was tho.. like if it skewed blizzards numbers for us in 5.1 maybe we should get some albit minor compensation.
Hell i sit half the raid fights because I'm just so exhausted with raiding after so many tiers. Glad i did tho, new tier so soon and I'll never get a break in this because of TF.
---------- Post added 2013-02-23 at 04:09 AM ----------
It's little things that makes me take anything you have to say with a tuckload of salt. I'd get into the early beta development for simc that myself and requ had to help you with while disregarded every valid opinion on what was wrong. But that was discussed and is still avail to read. If you want to discuss things thats cool but show me hard numbers to back up opinions. And by numbers I mean logs.
Players like Nelda I hold in extreme high regard and pay attention their input. But that is because they have proven themselves to be one of the best players in the spec in the world. It sucks that the Simcraft dev shoes your filling was Pbad's and he fit that imagine exactly. Hell he bumped me off several times and showed us all just how powerful the Creche was when we were initially ignoring it for just one example.
Just want to point out there is a Thunderforged Polearm in the list on the front page atm. Take it for what its worth.
---------- Post added 2013-02-23 at 04:43 AM ----------
Apparently the DK howling blast buff was... Base damage? well I guess maybe they might not be getting buffed as hard as we thought...
Might of frozen wastes was compensation for a broken OP 2 set... how op? Think 4pce ret prenerf broken.
Perhaps we are balanced now for tier? Time will tell.. Itemization has a pretty high chance to break us tho.. haste shouldn't drop below 25% tho the extra sockets make that a guaranteed thing.
Issues with ret in pve = 1). lowish overall output, 2). and very inferior AoE.
Burst can be considered as "utility" and in >most< cases it actually outweighs high sustained when it comes to PvE. Like playing around encounter mechanics / knowing when to actually put that burst to use etc etc. Many fights in the past had those moments where all you want to do is "throw kitchen sinks" at shit to make the cut (ragH p3, magmaw weaken etcetc).
I actually agree with people who prefer ret as a high burst model spec. Unless well ya wanna really homogenize everything WoW ever had...
AoE tuning phase should be soon. If howling blast doesn't get gutted I'll consider it a total failure.
They cant buff DS too much either because if they do were gonna be in a situation where without TV proc up we storm. I think a 150% DS would make that a reality no? Then again it would be aoe and single target buff XD I'd take it.
Honestly the easiest solution would be simply DS spreads censure. Repeated DS bursts would of course then ramp up our aoe as censure begins to stack. The would be a hell of alot better then tabbing between targets to spread censure on every single enemy to keep up in multitarget.
Just buff Censure damage by like 5-7k damage per second and make it a unique debuff so you can only have it on one target at a time... doesn't have to be complicated.
I'm trying to avoid anything that's going to involve haste or in particular mastery because it's going to work on everything (including burst) which is going to cause pvp issues. Hell why even add a dot to the cleave crusader strike? why not increase the holy damage wave it does? I think DS and TV are fine but they really should make the T15 4set have it so cleave crusader strike can proc an increased DS aswell considering how much cleave there's to do in T15 encounters...
While they're at it they should make the cleave crusader strike require no target so we can break stealth shit, think of it like a no stun shockwave. Get 1 holy power if we hit anything.
DS aoe spreading censure is an excellent idea to the point of overfixing things (gief!), but... it requires SoT and wouldn't that mean permanent exile of SoR which was supposed to be buffed?
Actually Huntingbear gave a great idea. What about HotR giving 1 HoP per target hit?
Last edited by catablitz; 2013-02-23 at 11:00 AM.
Also, SotR "exile" would mean much to the improvement of Quality of Life due to removal of stance-dance crap.
I don't see the issue with ret being a burst class, it makes us unique. I feel what the rest of you are missing is that we should be asking them to completely remove all other damage and cram it all into our burst - no damage at all unless AW or GoAK is active. Then we get to cut the bullshit and AFK for 60-90 seconds at a time, while seeing satisfying numbers. Losing DPS due to the cenure ticks are less of an issue, because it's still hitting like a truck until it fades.
It'll also address the PvP issues. "We have no damage outside of CDs" - truer than ever. "Execution sentence, although in use being a DPS gain, simply doesn't tick all that hard" - No longer an issue, now the second tick will hit for overkill on a tank unless pain suppression and a tanking CD are active. Think of all the fun other players will be having... You'll get to see 3 teams of Disc, Holy, Blood out of sheer fear that they might come against a ret pally. Bolder teams might be Disc, Resto, Demo. Though, more popular might be Ret, Ret, Ret. If this is found to be in any way unbalanced, I'm sure Blizzard will resolve it some time in the next arena season.
It's not a problem that ret is a burst oriented spec, but when we have to chose between using our burst to keep our overall dps on a acceptable level (which is still 5-7k dps behind any other dps spec in T14 BiS gear) or use our burst when it's "needed" in the encounter? Don't get me wrong, having a strong burst is very handy for fights like Council of Elders in T15 or Spine of Deathwing in Dragon Soul... but there's rarely more than 2 of theese type of fights in a tier which means we'll be wanted in 2 encounters out of 10-14.
Also there's specs in wow that burst as good as rets or close to us and they got 10k more sustained dps than us, yes I also agree that ret should be a "bursty" spec but not at the cost of being rock bottom by such a huge gap like we are at the moment.
---------- Post added 2013-02-23 at 04:02 PM ----------
I think it'd be great if they could just buff/remove DP to the point where it was the "sustained damage" option. HotR spreading Censure sounds like a great idea. One that's been around on this forum forever and they haven't done. They could even have HotR debuffs stack in 5 charges. 2% reduced damage each charge and also add a damage component, like adding 2% to holy damage taken from finishers. I don't really mind the 1 HP for each target hit, but it may be a little OP. Maybe cap it at 3? Maybe the more targets you hit with it reduces the CD on it? So, if there's a ton of adds you can SotR / DS spam. Just brainstorming, so none of this is even remotely fleshed out to be a viable idea yet.
The HotR change that someone suggested above wasn't taking about the HP gain, it was more about being able to use HotR without a target, and giving the one Hpower charge that it normally does IF we hit anything, which I think is a great idea.
DS spreading Censure would be awesome, but I think Blizz is scared to do that on fights where we would have like 20 enemies with Censure, Censure hits quite hard to kinda support our single target sustained, if that went into our aoe at a huge capacity like that our aoe would be through the roof. If saidchange was to occur Blizz would probably cap Censure targets at 5 or something, which I think it okay.