Anaxie's Totally Magnificent ToT Retribution T15 BiS & Theorycraft

**Revvo** · 2013-03-08, 09:16 PM

Originally Posted by Anafielle

Yes. Absolutely honestly. US top 50, we run two mainspec rets. Ran them just fine through 16/16H, no plans to change in T15? Raidbots says that slightly over 1 ret per 25 was average all through last tier for 25 man guilds, which sounds fine to me for one spec from a 3 spec class. I honestly have no idea what you're talking about.

And ret has looked fine so far through TOT normals. Check TOT logs, no one is sitting ret paladins?

Sitting mages though. Bout time.

**Anafielle** · 2013-03-08, 09:16 PM

Can't say I have a problem with that. B-) Mostly kidding, I haven't seen a reason to sit any class yet. Normal modes yo...

**Revvo** · 2013-03-08, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by Anafielle

Can't say I have a problem with that. B-) Mostly kidding, I haven't seen a reason to sit any class yet. Normal modes yo...

Yeah, but mages seem to be doing poorly (until heroic BiS fire, which is gonna be stupid good), and locks are doing very well.

**Juicy** · 2013-03-08, 10:02 PM

Originally Posted by Revvo

Yeah, but mages seem to be doing poorly (until heroic BiS fire, which is gonna be stupid good), and locks are doing very well.

Sounds like shit mages then, because mages are not doing poorly at all atm.

**Revvo** · 2013-03-08, 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by Juicy

Sounds like shit mages then, because mages are not doing poorly at all atm.

In comparison to locks/boomkins they are. Granted our mages don't like to play fire. Frost is broken, and arcane isn't nearly as good.

EDIT:Also if you quote this image I'll slap you because it is not at all accurate.
http://simulationcraft.org/520/Raid_T15H.html

**anaxie** · 2013-03-08, 11:04 PM

Rets are going to be fucking gods end of this tier.

#1 4pce is what we are waiting on to explode
#2 with the 42% haste level we should hit we get alot of things. 1.08 sec GCD, FOUR second hammer TWO under wings, THREE second CS great with our tier bonus, FOUR second judgement. AND a TEN second exorcism giving a non AoW debuff 2pce a 60% uptime.
Just for kicks our auto swing should be 2 seconds with windfury + haste. Our Guardian is going to wreck shit since he gets our haste.

Get four pieace, get a 541 weapon, get the RPPM trinkets and hit the 40% haste level, Sitback and lol at how broken that level of haste makes us.

**Juicy** · 2013-03-08, 11:59 PM

Originally Posted by Revvo

In comparison to locks/boomkins they are. Granted our mages don't like to play fire. Frost is broken, and arcane isn't nearly as good.

EDIT:Also if you quote this image I'll slap you because it is not at all accurate.
http://simulationcraft.org/520/Raid_T15H.html

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-gu.../?s=119&e=328#
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-gu...s=1462&e=2000#

Frost seems fine to me.

**Revvo** · 2013-03-09, 12:10 AM

Compared to where mages were last patch? They were miles ahead of other dps. Not to mention their pets/frozen orb bug on a bunch of bosses this teir.

**anaxie** · 2013-03-09, 12:16 AM

OK holy shit. Ret thread not the mages are doing poorly thread. Stop it

**Neldarie** · 2013-03-09, 01:52 AM

Originally Posted by Anafielle

US top 50

That's not hardcore....

And well set bonuses do look nice and good, trinkets however look pretty horrible and should bring us backwards. In regards to being gods, I strongly doubt it and disagree. Active dmg/burst cooldown class can only scale that far. Lack of strong passive dmg every other class gets will be the bane of that belief.

Another thing is lets look at those actual set bonuses: 0set you have one important filler during CDs = hammer, 2set you suddenly have 2 = hammer + exo, and when you finally get to 4set you have 3 = hammer + exo + cs. So let's think again and take into account those crazy haste levels. You can instantly see how active dps style backfires. No matter how much haste you have 1 global will never become 2, so you're stuck sailing the I can't dump all important resources boat. While I do personally like the set bonuses alot, since they will do great good for our sustained dps, but ye let's not get carried away since during the burst their mechanics do backfire on each other and become somewhat "counter-productive".

Good Rets (or well ANY other class tbh) will always have space/slot in any raid/enviroment (yes even 10man). Problem is not that however. Main problem is average players + beginners (new people) starting with shit spec.

**anaxie** · 2013-03-09, 03:13 AM

The CD situation isn't as horrible as you are making it sound. Regardless we should find out if Exo debuff or a holy TV would be better during wrath spam, Then you can't ignore censure either with 30%+ haste levels. Then we will need to see if it double dips increasing hand of light through HoW+6% and HoL+6% twice.

I'm sure a super powered TV doing the extra damage would be nothing to scoff at either.

Honestly though with 4 set and the cooldowns abilties will have at late tier haste levels. I'm not worried about anything, least of all sustained.

AoE is still a concern but what can you do. Maybe i can beg to sit ontop of horridon when hes EZ mode farm status :P

**Neldarie** · 2013-03-09, 03:22 AM

Pretty sure they said somewhere that neither of the setbonuses will double dip HoL. And CD situation is basically 25% uptime for us , so it is rather big portion of >total damage<.

Only class thats worse than ret @ scaling meleewise = DK, hence their truckton of buffs this tier.

**anaxie** · 2013-03-09, 03:41 AM

Originally Posted by Neldarie

Pretty sure they said somewhere that neither of the setbonuses will double dip HoL. And CD situation is basically 25% uptime for us , so it is rather big portion of >total damage<.

Only class thats worse than ret @ scaling meleewise = DK, hence their truckton of buffs this tier.

Actually GC confirmed that HoL will be affected. Well of course have to test.

No surprise since HoL is increased by 5% spell debuff afterall.

Nelda let me tell you antoher reason the 42-50% haste threshold is so amazing. If you use say... AHK I'm pretty sure most people are spamming HoW ect. even with .3 sec left on it's CD. However, At these haste levels 1 sec GCD links with alot of FLAT numbers. at that Value CS is a FLAT second almost, HoW? Flat, Judge? Flat

All these .3 .4 .5 secs of wasted time build up alot. When our haste gets to a point where We have 1 second GCD, and WE HAVE flat second abilities not 4.8 Sec hammers but 4 second hammers. We are going to see ALOT of returns on this. The GCD is rets resource afterall.

42% haste is reachable with Full BiS non thunderforged. TF some amazing slots like weapon? Belt, Hands, Rings, anything. Haste bulks up more. If VP+ returns well climb well into the 45% haste area ect. Hopefully these metas attacks are able to count as procabble attacks. Would help a ton with these RPPM trinkets.

**Neldarie** · 2013-03-09, 03:54 AM

It still doesn't affect the real problem which is scaling with gear/stats/w-e. Our 4set during cd "clusterfuck" is the exact same reason why DKs scale poorly (overflow of resources). GCDs don't scale esp on such minor numbers. Passive dmg like whites/deep-wounds/poisons do. All we got to show for it is GoaK (10% uptime lawl, and well censure). Poor trinket design is really big issue too considering how much % of our total dmg is burst.

Ret do look really good now for progress because all we got were flatout buffs in all areas (AE, SotL, free minor boost via old t14 4set). But scaling problem will remain, that's why simcrafts may not be accurate and all but they do tell the tale (because ye its math,which even if innacurate shows the real picture).

**Ohohohoh** · 2013-03-09, 05:42 AM

I don't know if ppl actually took time to look but the simcraft has the old 4set bonus of the lightning strike damage that would have taken place of the TV making TV do less overall damage then hand of light. Which also means it would be an overall increase in damage since a holy tv would do more then a lightning one for obvious reasons. Cheers.

**silverhatred** · 2013-03-09, 07:31 AM

How much haste rating is 42%

**Revvo** · 2013-03-09, 07:52 AM

Originally Posted by silverhatred

How much haste rating is 42%

Around 17,851

**HELLSHEALER** · 2013-03-09, 07:53 AM

by my estimation its about 17850

---------- Post added 2013-03-09 at 07:55 AM ----------

you guys answer fast tonight

**Prometheous** · 2013-03-09, 08:04 AM

To address our 2/4pc bonuses, maybe we can push the idea of having them add in HotR and somehow add DS to it as well. Just so that our bonuses arent punishing us for AoEing.

**anaxie** · 2013-03-09, 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by Prometheous

To address our 2/4pc bonuses, maybe we can push the idea of having them add in HotR and somehow add DS to it as well. Just so that our bonuses arent punishing us for AoEing.

Hey raid leader. Yeah I gotta sit on Horridon sorry :< not allowed to aoe.

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