1. #1021
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    So in short in order to minmax perfectly with theese set bonuses we have to be a god.
    You are so negative. The rotation is boring atm, this is perfect. Hopefully with a small damage buff we can be up there with all of the other classes.

  2. #1022
    Legendary! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    No I like the fact that we'll get something hard to do, it's gonna seperate those who can from those who can't. The issue is that there's classes with "less" to do with a much higher output, won't say it's unfair but it's far from allright.
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  3. #1023
    This is gonna be interesting for sure.
    I though fear going back to divine purpose. The RNG is killing me.

    Let's hope devs are watching this topic and are maybe willing to answer the questions regarding modifiers..

  4. #1024
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    How can the 4 set not boost DP?
    Also unlikely? it's 40% ur likely too see streaks of Holy TVS.

    5.2 return of the RNGadin. The burstadin is on vacation until 5.3
    I should have said not boost it over the other two. It's only a 16% chance to see a double proc on 2 CSs and you won't do CS J CS that often anyway in a fight when you also have a DP proc up. Add to that 16% the fact that that you have to get a 25% DP proc immediately beforehand and you are looking at only a 4% chance by proc rates of all 2 CS strings reduced further by the fact that not all 2 CS strings are preceeded by a TV or occur in precisely 4 GCDs. So yeah, in the unlikely scenario that you have a DP proc and 0 holy power, then do CS - J/Exo - TV - CS and get another proc you have come out ahead of non DP. (If you started with 1 holy power you could still TV without the DP proc) Note that this argument also is weakened if CS isn't worth using over Exo.
    Last edited by Sturmcantor; 2013-01-11 at 09:29 AM.

  5. #1025
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    Anaxie, just a question, going off the standard rotation, and for someone at my gear level, which Tier 5 Talent should I be taking?
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...isery/advanced
    If I am taking Divine Purpose, where does the free TV fit into the rotation? Is it prioritised over everything else because it has such a low buff uptime for the ability to be able to be cast?
    Also if I were to acquire a Relic of Xuen, where does this prioritise the trinket, does it replace the LFR Darkmist or the Normal Orders?
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  6. #1026
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunflora View Post
    *Snip*
    all your question can be found on front page.
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  7. #1027
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunflora View Post
    Anaxie, just a question, going off the standard rotation, and for someone at my gear level, which Tier 5 Talent should I be taking?
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...isery/advanced
    If I am taking Divine Purpose, where does the free TV fit into the rotation? Is it prioritised over everything else because it has such a low buff uptime for the ability to be able to be cast?
    Also if I were to acquire a Relic of Xuen, where does this prioritise the trinket, does it replace the LFR Darkmist or the Normal Orders?
    It sims as a negligible dps gain to hold the Div Purp proc til it is about to expire. Relic/Orders. Sim talents.

  8. #1028
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    So in short in order to minmax perfectly with theese set bonuses we have to be good.
    Fixed that for you

  9. #1029
    The Retribution 4pc does grant a self-buff that is consumed by the next TV, and does not stack. Wasting some procs is expected, and balanced around. Yes it is a single-target benefit that won't increase DPS on AE fights. We don't want to be in such a limited design space (we're talking about the 15th tier here after all) that every set bonus must be super generic and work in every situation. If anything, we'd rather the Ret bonus be even higher for single-target and paladins will just be stronger at single-target and weaker at AE once they have the set bonus than they are in other tiers. Set bonuses are one of the few chances we have to change what your character does (within reason) aside from all of your numbers just getting bigger.
    GC pretty much saying exactly what I said about ret.

    SINGLE TARGET ONLY

    Keep VP to upgrade your trinkets / weapon /Belt as the final 6 items in the possible 3 months till 5.2 if you plan to obtain the heroic version in the very near future since GC confirmed vendors are going poof.

    I Cannot 100% reccomend any other slot without loot tables because at some point bracers and rings/necks are going to gain sockets and that can even trump Heroic Elites. I doubt we see a triple socket perfect itemiized belt in T15. upgrade that and enjoy it fully.

    I was under the impression 5.2 gear would simply not be flagged. Whatever u upgrade in theory should last you until the Heroic version of the slot in T15. Our tier set seems to be godly single target wise, T14H is good too so it's a complex choice.

    Giving advice to upgrade chest is a tricky situation... It's a great bump now but honestly the socket bonus and the crit on it is awful and hopefully we get a better alternative or even offset in T15 that at the very least has a str socket bonus.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-01-12 at 01:38 PM.

  10. #1030
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butosai View Post
    Fixed that for you
    If theese set bonuses stay I challange anyone to get theoretical dps within the "normal rng proc rate" like simc shows we're capable by, for the majority of retribution playerbase theese set bonuses are gonna create more confusion and frustration rather than "enjoyment" of the spec. In any case blizzard should aim to please as many as possible and with theese tier bonuses I don't see that happening, I like them... they seem like one of the most challanging mechanics ret has had to deal with but if this causes the ret (pve) playerbase to drop like a stone then that kinda moves blizzard into the direction that retribution needs a rework (again) which it IMO doesn't atm. Ret is fine in how it's played, boring at times but we got just as much to press and manage now as most other specs have (before considering hybridness spells like hand shits etc). What's "wrong" with retribution at the moment is sustained dps, T15 set bonuses solve that but they're RNG based which you'd think blizzard has learned from the past that it doesn't work. Retribution in T14 is "viable" because Stone Guards, Gara'jal, Elegon, Will of Emps, Garalon, Wind Lord Mel'jarak (or whatever), Protectors (heroic) and Lei Shi have % damage increase mechanics in the fight which makes mastery for rets double dip. Look at any fight without them and ret is in a very sad state. Ofc every fight is going to favour one class or another but unless T15 fights have many of the same mechanics AND the items of that tier is also loaded with haste we're gonna drop massivly behind (again), if or when that happens many of the ret players could decide to reroll which (and repeating myself) will cause ret numbers to drops = blizzard thinks of new ways to rework retribution which it doesn't need, just a minor sustained dps increase and less burst.
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  11. #1031
    Again push hundreds on ptr feedback on posts directed at pushing the debuff of exorcism to 8 seconds. It's not 100% uptime but it WILL be enough.

    If the debuff is increased by inquisiton it will be closer to 7.8-8% holy damage taken increased. I SHOULD be right in my assumption that mastery is going to skyrocket given a holy tv thats HoL is also affected by the debuff the HoL is going to do major extra damage from the debuff 2pc alone. Delaying of Exorcism the the point i discussed in a previous post may not be a "negligable" gain like Balhale stated. Honestly that is the attitude seperating the top from the bottom players. Nothing is negligable, Maintaining a 8ish % damage uptime on boss could potentially be as important as inquisition.

    Also GC confirmed MASTERY should dip from the debuff in addition to the Holy TV. I got excited in the pants over that confirmation. Still check ptr numbers when avail so they didn't Fubar the data and not flag it to benefit.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-01-12 at 01:51 PM.

  12. #1032
    both set bonuses involve RNG.

    the class devs are an absolute joke. it's like they dont even listen to player feedback.

    well guys, have fun ranking on one pull, and not even coming close on the next! such is life when your set bonuses revolve around random procs.

    also, this is a pretty blatant nudge by blizz to get us stacking mastery over haste. which is lame, I really like how the rotation flows with a lot of haste. it would be funny if heroic t14 is a dps increase over t15, with a haste setup.
    Last edited by Moradim; 2013-01-12 at 02:52 PM.

  13. #1033
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moradim View Post
    both set bonuses involve RNG.

    the class devs are an absolute joke. it's like they dont even listen to player feedback.

    well guys, have fun ranking on one pull, and not even coming close on the next! such is life when your set bonuses revolve around random procs.

    also, this is a pretty blatant nudge by blizz to get us stacking mastery over haste. which is lame, I really like how the rotation flows with a lot of haste. it would be funny if heroic t14 is a dps increase over t15, with a haste setup.
    Since Cata/Holy power we've been a class that revolves around either Procs/DPS cds, or both; something that I can't really consider to be any sort of 'improvement' as such. Hopefully next patch fixes a few things (Unlikely as GC has said that Paladins are 'about exactly where he wants them to be' right now), but I doubt it. Clunkiness, proc-dependency and CD dependency await i'm sure, which is why in terms of PvP at least, i'm considering another class at the moment; having persevered since WOTLK.
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  14. #1034
    to underscore the problem, the class DOES NOT NEED MORE RNG.

    I had enough of that in firelands. rank on one fight, dont come close on the next.

    why? procs.

    and now we have an entire tier set involving rng.

  15. #1035
    Quote Originally Posted by Moradim View Post
    to underscore the problem, the class DOES NOT NEED MORE RNG.

    I had enough of that in firelands. rank on one fight, dont come close on the next.

    why? procs.

    and now we have an entire tier set involving rng.
    If you don't like it stop playing ret. Dstorm reset was RNG and that was fantastic. This is another set but this RNG also depends on how exceptional the player is the micromanage the procs.

    This set with less emphasis on COOLDOWN dependency is exactly what retribution needed.

  16. #1036
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    If you don't like it stop playing ret. Dstorm reset was RNG and that was fantastic. This is another set but this RNG also depends on how exceptional the player is the micromanage the procs.

    This set with less emphasis on COOLDOWN dependency is exactly what retribution needed.
    heroic t14 will remain BIS, especially with no 5.2 upgrading, im 99% sure of that unless they nerf it. 40% chance to do holy damage on a tv (and procs will be wasted with this bonus) doesnt come close to beating the avenging wrath bonus.

    not to mention on any multi target fight your dps would be gimped, take wind lord for example.

  17. #1037
    Quote Originally Posted by Moradim View Post
    heroic t14 will remain BIS, especially with no 5.2 upgrading, im 99% sure of that unless they nerf it. 40% chance to do holy damage on a tv (and procs will be wasted with this bonus) doesnt come close to beating the avenging wrath bonus.

    not to mention on any multi target fight your dps would be gimped, take wind lord for example.
    ACTUALLY mass exo spreading the debuff INCREASES OUR AOE the 4 set just Emphasises rets single target strength but focus on the negetive if you will.

    And I'm not sure why you believe GC's comment on wasted procs. You wont be wasting TV procs unless you are a bad player and the choiceto take DP ensures none are wasted when u have to refresh inqu so TV can be fired before more CS's
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-01-12 at 05:28 PM.

  18. #1038
    So basically Ret's for the most part in forums have been crying about us being too bursty and we need more sustain. So blizz offers it to us next tier and people are crying about it because its going to be a little bit harder to play. I'm actually really interested to see how this plays out this could potentially make us incredibly strong single target. And while yes there will be classes that will do much less to achieve more most of us dont play ret because its incredibly over powered, you play it because you enjoy it and if you know your class well enough most rets can stand out as the melee to beat. You also dont know what stat weights will be by that time or for that matter what boss encounters will be like. AOE dmg being potentially down just so single target can be up more....hmmm downside? not much of one if at all. Focus the complaints where they are potentially needed like making that buff go from 6 to 8seconds. Understand that this change could be fantastic and be glad they didnt mess with cooldowns. were still gonna have great burst but now we have the ability to potentially sustain it.

  19. #1039
    Seriously guys, the sky is not falling. It depends on the encounters and how good Ret single target DPS actually is compared to others. I don't mind being the top (or close to the top) single target DPS if it means being mediocre at AOE/cleaving.

  20. #1040
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    Set bonuses sound too good to be true especially with all the double-triple dipness. We all know Blizz and their stance on those kinda things from the past

    HA prolly way to go with new tier weapons and those CS/exo procs.
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