Anaxie's Totally Revolutionary SoO Retribution T16 BiS & Theorycraft

[anaxie]

Rets dont scale well nor ever did. Stuff like warriors is what always did tho (current arms aside). So using that as an excuse is pretty poor understanding of the class mechanics tbh.

Well have a better idea what this tier is gonna look like after some items start poping up. if we can maintain 25% haste and keep growing mastery we should be doing decent as weapons start to get out of control. We SHOULD see a 30k Top end weapon this patch. Then there is praying we get a band aid buff too 2hspec/mastery scaling when they do balancing on ptr. not holding my breath though.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

What I'm saying is that if they increase the power of one of our abilities now mastery + haste is going to have too much of an effect because everything works of mastery now. I didn't mean that rets scale good on gear like warriors do but our abilities as they are now scale well with stats which makes them hard to balance.

[Neldarie]

Was refering to devs btw not the posters here in the previous one. But ye just try sim a fury warrior for fun in bis and check the dps gains from various stats and compare to retribution, pretty pathetic really...

[Megraam]

nah, 15% haste buff makes up for any cds.

Yes, but he was talking about p1 before 15% haste buff.

Ye, ya could, but was talking strictly 10man there where raidbuffs and utility are actually pretty important while the dps gap also even bigger. And for p1 progress pre 15% hastebuff ret is prolly the strongest class there is

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

You do know that the 15% hastebuff stays after you wipe right? My guild runs 4 tanks untill we hit P2 so we have extra time to do the platforms before we get 15% haste, after that we run 3 tanks.

Sha rekill night:
-4 tanks + nuke as hard as possible on sha to get to P2 asap.
-Gain 15% haste buff.
-Go 3 tanks + leaving 1 person behind on each platform after the first platform.

Easy.

[Torchbringer]

Just got back from a break, what should our priority be on gear upgrades? (after weapon of course)

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Just got back from a break, what should our priority be on gear upgrades? (after weapon of course)

Trinkets are a safe bet, if you don't have 4set get it asap.

[Juicy]

http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=96658
http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=96656
http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=96654
http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=96657
http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=96655


^ Ret tier stats/socket bonuses.

[icausewipes]

that holy 4 piece looks amazing.

[Megraam]

Oh god, how much I hate direct pvp buffs. Especially we were told once that Blizzard don't buff our pve damage because it will make us OP in pvp as well.

[Neldarie]

http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=96658
http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=96656
http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=96654
http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=96657
http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=96655


^ Ret tier stats/socket bonuses.

Blizz 1+1 = error 404 it seems. Ya gonna have like over 1000x2 of both xp and hit just from tier this time if both TForged...

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Blizz 1+1 = error 404 it seems. Ya gonna have like over 1000x2 of both xp and hit just from tier this time if both TForged...

not to mention that there's a rep vendor trinket with 1.3 exp on it and a 5k str proc. what's with all theese hit/exp items?

Back onto the topic of ret tiers, if I ever went off it...

unless the "offset" chest this tier has 3 sockets aswell the offset tier item for ret will most likely be legs by the looks of it, despite 1 of the stats being terrible.

---------- Post added 2013-02-06 at 09:34 PM ----------

PTR raid testing with T15 (gear level set to 507) single target nuke came up with 85 - 90k dps sustained.
Obviously not playing optimally or "pushing" dps since it's ptr and watching abilities and so on but realisticly I don't see us breaking 120k dps sustained this tier either.

[Reith]

Hey good news:

Paladin
- We are going to buff Seal of Justice and Seal of Righteousness damage. Neither of these Seals is seeing enough use. Justice was always intended to be a strong PvP Seal, and it just isn't right now. We haven't solidified numbers yet - I'm just sharing our intent.

I would love to see Seal of Righteousness effective at 4 targets, personally. Even if Seal of Justice was competitive with (or a little better than) Truth on single target, Truth still has merit in usage for multi-censuring and the utility of having a DOT on a stealth class/spec.

[Deleted]

Finally they hear a tiny bit of our suggestions. SotR really was a lack-luster froim the beginning of the expac. For them to wait an entire patch to solve this is more than boring, but, hey, maybe it will be efficient at 4 targets (3 targets with censure being the limit I can keep up with my non-pro skills).

I really would have loved it if they were off the GCD so that switching seal would not be punitive.
GC answered me a no-brain reaction : off the GCD just means macros..

Yeah, well switching seal for appropriate situations is called good judgement, not automatic macros with no reason to do so... and there should be no reason that a good decision shall be punished by the loss of a GCD...

[Riptide]

Finally they hear a tiny bit of our suggestions. SotR really was a lack-luster froim the beginning of the expac. For them to wait an entire patch to solve this is more than boring, but, hey, maybe it will be efficient at 4 targets (3 targets with censure being the limit I can keep up with my non-pro skills).

I really would have loved it if they were off the GCD so that switching seal would not be punitive.
GC answered me a no-brain reaction : off the GCD just means macros..

Yeah, well switching seal for appropriate situations is called good judgement, not automatic macros with no reason to do so... and there should be no reason that a good decision shall be punished by the loss of a GCD...

Off the gcd would change single target rotation would it not? You'd be getting truth to 5 then switching to justice until you had to refresh truth. I think that's too extreme for them.

[Therm]

Paladin
We finished looking at Seal of Righteousness and Justice. Righteousness we ended up buffing by 50% so it should be a good choice against 4 targets instead of 6.

Justice is much more complicated. It was intended as a PvP seal, but the damage loss is so significant and the snare just not that valuable (which is ironic when you consider Ret's history of not being able to catch things), and Burden of Guilt is there if you really do want to snare. Furthermore, just buffing Justice's damage risks Seal twisting in PvE becoming a thing, where you stack up Censure and then swap to Justice. It could be cool if designed right, but would probably just be annoying. We just don't have much room to buff Justice, and players might still forsake it in PvP.

So, we're going to redesign it and attempt to solve another problem, which is Ret's damage outside of cooldowns (which are quite potent). Justice will now proc (and Judgment will count for the proc) a stacking debuff on the target that increases the damage of your next Templar's Verdict. With 5 stacks, this will be a big hit (but not an insta-gib) and opens up some interesting decisions about how to use Holy Power, such as Inquisition or WoG, if you're trying to hold TV. While Truth + Censure will still do more sustained damage overall, there is a chance Justice will see some situational use in PvE, and we're okay with that. Justice is a Ret-only thing, so it should be a Seal they actually use. It won't snare at all, which I expect some will call a devastating nerf, but again, there's Burden of Guilt if you really need a snare.


Wonder with the seal change, if keeping up 5 stacks of censure on 4 targets will be more than righteousness

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Where did you find

So, we're going to redesign it and attempt to solve another problem, which is Ret's damage outside of cooldowns (which are quite potent). Justice will now proc (and Judgment will count for the proc) a stacking debuff on the target that increases the damage of your next Templar's Verdict. With 5 stacks, this will be a big hit (but not an insta-gib) and opens up some interesting decisions about how to use Holy Power, such as Inquisition or WoG, if you're trying to hold TV. While Truth + Censure will still do more sustained damage overall, there is a chance Justice will see some situational use in PvE, and we're okay with that. Justice is a Ret-only thing, so it should be a Seal they actually use. It won't snare at all, which I expect some will call a devastating nerf, but again, there's Burden of Guilt if you really need a snare.

If that's true then happy, doubt it though since GC has been pretty ignorant to ret paladin issues so far in MoP.

Oh and btw, the mutation based boss in T15. 50% reduced damage all the time unless you're 10 stacks of mutated yourself, which means we're on add duty (that lives for like 4seconds) so seals don't do much and HoPo is gonna suck balls. So unless you convince your raid leader to let the weakest dpser get the buff you're gonna be below tanks. OH HAPPYNESS COME AND TAKE ME!

[Reith]

Where did you find
If that's true then happy, doubt it though since GC has been pretty ignorant to ret paladin issues so far in MoP.

Oh and btw, the mutation based boss in T15. 50% reduced damage all the time unless you're 10 stacks of mutated yourself, which means we're on add duty (that lives for like 4seconds) so seals don't do much and HoPo is gonna suck balls. So unless you convince your raid leader to let the weakest dpser get the buff you're gonna be below tanks. OH HAPPYNESS COME AND TAKE ME!

That would be here: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...46?page=28#543

My reply on that would be here: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...46?page=29#578

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

thank, no EU forum love

[Runewrath]

Soooo swapping to justice during CDs and then back to truth after?