1. #3441
    Hi everyone what is better? LFR Frozen Hells with prismatic slot or 516 mastery/expertise? I'm leaning towards Frozen Hells because it gives almost 1k more haste.

  2. #3442
    The Patient Dmchomerun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by norml View Post
    Hi everyone what is better? LFR Frozen Hells with prismatic slot or 516 mastery/expertise? I'm leaning towards Frozen Hells because it gives almost 1k more haste.
    You cannot look at secondary stats alone when comparing two weapons with that staggered of item levels, the iLv 516 will give you more DPS because of the weapon damage alone.
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  3. #3443
    Banned anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meanor View Post
    Isn't the proc rate outer shit too? I mean it's not really 40% vs 25%, isn't it rather 40% every ~3.3 seconds vs 25% every ~ 7-8 seconds?
    If you TV every 7 seconds you are awful as fuck at ret. The scenario is however u get 40%. ALOT more then 25% for a HIGHER damage attack. Ontop of this sometimes it takes TWO crusader strikes without Art of war procs to gain 1 templars verdict so it's more like 60% chance for Holy TV in those scenarios VS 25% chance to gain an okay attack. All and all it's a TV every chance to proc every 4 ish seconds. To game this new tier set we are going to be forced into going with Divine Purpose. Significantly lowering cooldown damage but across the board it should somewhat average out. The only downside is we go to 100% RNG reliant dps. Hammer spam was always a sure thing.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-06-20 at 10:24 PM.

  4. #3444
    Quote Originally Posted by Dmchomerun View Post
    You cannot look at secondary stats alone when comparing two weapons with that staggered of item levels, the iLv 516 will give you more DPS because of the weapon damage alone.
    Except those 516's are 3.5 speed making them much less attractive and LFR weapons end up pulling ahead I do believe.

  5. #3445
    question for you guys, been rocking a normal TF Zerat, Malakk's Soulburning Greatsword for some time now and coined a normal NOT TF Greatsword of Frozen Hells today and am wondering which one i should be using. seeing how Zerat has hit on it i would assume thats a factor, im at 8.08 hit with the Zerat atm.

  6. #3446
    Quote Originally Posted by Paintpauller View Post
    question for you guys, been rocking a normal TF Zerat, Malakk's Soulburning Greatsword for some time now and coined a normal NOT TF Greatsword of Frozen Hells today and am wondering which one i should be using. seeing how Zerat has hit on it i would assume thats a factor, im at 8.08 hit with the Zerat atm.
    within the same itemlevel: Hells=Bo-Ris>Uroe>>>Zerat. Bo-Ris pulls ahead slightly at high gear levels because we have so much haste on our gear.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-21 at 09:40 AM ----------

    Anaxie, they are extremely unlikely to ever let DS replace TV on single target. Not only is that dangerous on fights with CC or AoE restrictions, but they also want players to use a different rotation for single target and AoE. I mean, every DPS spec does things differently on AoE:

    frost uses howling blast more and uses DnD.
    unholy uses pestilence and BB.
    balance multidots and hurricanes.
    feral swipetrashes.
    hunter multishots.
    mages use their AoEs.
    monks spin to win.
    priests use mind sear.
    rogues use blade flurry, fan of knives and crimson tempest.
    elemental uses earthquake and chain lightning.
    enhancement uses fire nova.
    affliction does seed spam.
    demonology does hellfire.
    destruction does rain of fire and fire and brimstone.
    warriors use whirlwind.

    even we paladins switch from CS and TV to HotR and DS. if they make us use divine storm on ST, the only difference is HotR and maybe a seal swap. it's against the basic class design.
    Because I want to say this every single day but don't want it to get a drag:
    1) The ingame store will only sell timesaver items. It won't affect balance.
    2) No, getting to 100 in half the time isn't pay2win. raids don't start until the second week, everyone has time to get there.
    4) getting charms faster is also not pay2win. getting those is easy, but not everyone has the time or want for dailies.

  7. #3447
    Finally replaced my shitter ring. Now to replace the other zzzz

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  8. #3448
    Quote Originally Posted by Temperance Brennan View Post
    within the same itemlevel: Hells=Bo-Ris>Uroe>>>Zerat. Bo-Ris pulls ahead slightly at high gear levels because we have so much haste on our gear.
    they are not the same ilvl or i would have not asked =D the Zerat is TF and the Hells is not...

  9. #3449
    Easy answer: sim it

    EU-Frostwolf Reckless T14: 16/16Hc T15: 13/13Hc T16: 14/14Hc

  10. #3450
    Quote Originally Posted by Flowe View Post
    Easy answer: sim it
    yes that would be a easy answer but i was under the impression that sims were WAY off when it came to rets. something about crit scaling and trinket procs come to mind. dont know how old that info its tho.

  11. #3451
    The Patient Dmchomerun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aceshigh View Post
    Except those 516's are 3.5 speed making them much less attractive and LFR weapons end up pulling ahead I do believe.
    Weapon DPS far outweighs weapon speed, and although the 516s are only 3.5, the weapon damage outweighs the small loss from weapon speed.
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  12. #3452
    Quote Originally Posted by Paintpauller View Post
    yes that would be a easy answer but i was under the impression that sims were WAY off when it came to rets. something about crit scaling and trinket procs come to mind. dont know how old that info its tho.
    Mhhh i have no problems with latest simcraft build.

    I think when you don't need the hit from zerat frozen hells is slightly better , but when i'm right both weapons were close ....

    EU-Frostwolf Reckless T14: 16/16Hc T15: 13/13Hc T16: 14/14Hc

  13. #3453
    Quote Originally Posted by Paintpauller View Post
    they are not the same ilvl or i would have not asked =D the Zerat is TF and the Hells is not...
    I'm sorry, I must have misread what you wrote.

    The answer depends on whether you use all the hit rating on your zerat. if you do, zerat is better. if you don't, hells is better.

    also, even if sims are unreliable for ret, it's okay for comparing single items, because whatever bugs are active during 1 sim are also active during the next.
    Because I want to say this every single day but don't want it to get a drag:
    1) The ingame store will only sell timesaver items. It won't affect balance.
    2) No, getting to 100 in half the time isn't pay2win. raids don't start until the second week, everyone has time to get there.
    4) getting charms faster is also not pay2win. getting those is easy, but not everyone has the time or want for dailies.

  14. #3454
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    Anaxie, I noticed you have the h tf jin'rohk tank ring in the bis list, is that because of mass amount of strength on it?

  15. #3455
    I would rather see the 4 set bonus be something like, "25% chance on holy power consumer or 25% chance whenever you use a templar's verdict, you also trigger a divine storm". Since we will get alot higher haste levels in the next tier. Another button to press feels just unecessary. So why not just give us an extra bonus dmg instead of another DP proc

  16. #3456
    Quote Originally Posted by filfa View Post
    Anaxie, I noticed you have the h tf jin'rohk tank ring in the bis list, is that because of mass amount of strength on it?
    it's because the megaera ring is awfully itemized with hit and crit. optimal combination is primordius and ra-den, but not everyone has access to ra-den.
    Because I want to say this every single day but don't want it to get a drag:
    1) The ingame store will only sell timesaver items. It won't affect balance.
    2) No, getting to 100 in half the time isn't pay2win. raids don't start until the second week, everyone has time to get there.
    4) getting charms faster is also not pay2win. getting those is easy, but not everyone has the time or want for dailies.

  17. #3457
    High Overlord Monoroth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reghame View Post
    anaxie, while i was testing the new 4 piece the only time any proc would be wasted with DP is IF you use the DS proc WITH dp up as well, this may be a bug but i dont know. as it stands we would only waste procs like that on pure AOE where we just spam DS.
    As for replacing TV with DS permanently, i don't see it being a problem as long as they keep the damage bonus on the tier set.
    and yes, the current T16 is just place holder with the bonuses on the last set, we still have no idea what stats are on it(PLEASE GOD! NO MORE HIT! 11% WAY MORE THAN ENOUGH!) i also hope it looks cool too, almost had a heart attack over how horrendous the season 14 set looked like and thought that was the t16 set, i nearly cried.
    I tested T16 and when you have DP and DS proc at same time, DS consume one at the time. So they fixed bug with latest PTR build.

  18. #3458
    Quote Originally Posted by monoroth View Post
    I tested T16 and when you have DP and DS proc at same time, DS consume one at the time. So they fixed bug with latest PTR build.
    Good news
    Buff it to 100% and off GCD with 40% chance and we have a nice bonus

  19. #3459
    Quote Originally Posted by metasaigneur View Post
    Good news
    Buff it to 100% and off GCD with 40% chance and we have a nice bonus
    It won't ever be off the GCD because then you could just macro it and forget it even exists. They don't want it to be passive.

  20. #3460
    Scarab Lord Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    They could very easily make the 4set work like the current ele shaman 4set, just a plain and simple passive. Making it use a GCD (which strips us of one holy power) and not being a significant damage increase (single target) is definitely NOT the way to go imo.
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