You can lean on sims more for stats like crit which are just a roll of the dice, but even the values of those stats can be altered somewhat by a player if they butcher things enough. You're also assuming the sim is properly calculating damage as the game would (back to Str > hit example).
Its difficult to tell people to see what works best for them when you have stats that are very close to one another in value (crit vs mastery as an example). It's just impossible to do enough self evaluation in a raid setting to reliably say X > Y. Even if you killed Heroic Boss A once every week for a year, you only have 52 tests which you need to split between the two stat priorities.
Last edited by Swampmoose; 2014-01-23 at 08:50 PM.
Originally Posted by Nikoll
inq ds_4t16_5hp inq tv5 inq how inq tvaw inq cs inq j ds_4t16 inq exo tv3 inq tv4 (e: SW, not DP, but if someone could throw me a sweet DP one thatd be sweet)
what im using for clcinfo. can someone tell (confirm) if this is the proper thing i should be using?
also, wtb more ret paladin friends on btag to talk ret paladin things and be kawaiiiiiiiiiiiiiii together.
- - - Updated - - -
I reforged all my gear to haste40%>crit>mastery for 2 weeks now (still keeping mastery sockets and stuff untouched) and I'm seeing quite funny results in raid. I lost about 10-12% mastery but gained about 8% crit, leading to 35% crit raidbuffed. The first result is that me and my ret buddy in raid still perform almost the same (small differences in gear putten aside). The second result is that on pull I'm able to put out far more burst dps than in mastery form, sometimes even bypassing our rogues for a short time (+800k DPS FINALLY YEAH!). I'm also still doing well on the siegecrafter belt. For me, I don't see any major differences or even disadvantages. I'll stick with crit for now, maybe even consider going full crit with gems and test that.
The following string was build after the priority list used in SimulationCraft and works for both SW and DP:
You need to rename the rotation.untested file to rotation.lua in the latest version of clcInfo to get the ds_4t16_aw and tvdp_2s commands.Code:inq inqdp ds_4t16_5hp tv5 tvdp_2s how ds_4t16_aw tvaw cs j ds_4t16 tvdp exo tv3
The mastery build is my current armory setup: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ffert/advanced
It has 17575 haste (41.35 %), 13397 mastery and 5638 crit rating.
For the crit build, I changed by current mastery gems with crit ones and reforged pieces where I could make a dirrect crit -> mastery change without messing with anything else. This resulted in 5272 mastery rating being moved to crit, everything else staying the same.
I ran each setup 3 times at 50k iterations with length of the fight being 300 seconds varied by 20 % and chose the median low-end result for each to post here.
While the average dps and range stayed somewhat constant between the runs (mastery range being around 16900, crit range around 16700), the absolute worst and best results were varying by several thousands from run to run even with 50k iterations (there was over 12k difference between 2 of the mastery high-end results).
With these results, I have to say that without having a way to find out something like 1 percentile results from simcraft, I am unable to say which of the stats produces more consistent damage for our purposes. We know that mastery has wider range, but that can be a result of having higher but less frequent top-end.
The reason why we were getting conflicting results in the past as far as low-end dps goes is because the error of our method is bigger than the difference we saw in 2 different builds.
i ran like 44% haste this week (ceebed regemming from tanking garrosh previous week) and managed r3 ij r1 malk and r1 thok. although i usually sit about 42.75%ish haste anyway. felt better to me with my latency (175ms, straya).
It's either a) anecdotal evidence that can't be used to support/disprove any stat being better than the others
or b) agreeing that % haste is a personal preference, usually 40+ for the extra HoW, which I think we all agree on anyway
Again, not tryin to sound like a jerk, just confused
what im trying to say is that even though
ij: pure st
malkorok: burst aoe phases
thok: st with some disconnects and 1 sustained aoe phase
are all different types of fights, its fine to have any amount/distribution secondaries. strat and rng are far bigger factors.
i have the bis list missing a few wf here and there (except im using the crit sword; havent seen the polearm)
That being said, it's always much better to know the given parameters of the sims being linked. Things like this only matter if you can duplicate them.
Perhaps I came at you for no reason Swampooze, that was not my intent. I was just excited to see a discussion that actually still matters with actual theorycrafting going on to back it up, this late into the tier. Regardless if you're 14/14 HC or not, understanding why it happend or how is always good to know. I like where the thread is right now, people are being constructive and are supporting most of their arguments with math, theory, practical experience or logs and not refuting eachother. I remember it was basicly me vs. 27 fanboys when I came in here and started the whole "Stop saying Feather blows Spark out of the water" and "40% cap should be taken with a grain of salt". I'm glad we finally sorted it out.
Dad is proud.
you can only trust patchwerk encounters with sims.
its extremely rare for me to ever see 3 adds in melee on malkorok because ranged in my guild like to go berserk as they spawn. other guilds have a paladin tank which can bring them in easily and quickly for cleave.
you might screw up your glider on ij and have to run all the way back in.
some bats might stick to the thok tank as they come in.
you might go to a new guild and they let you tunnel nazgrim in d stance.
one week you may have more warriors in raid, the next you may have more shamans. one of these may disconnect or lag or mistime their banner/lash.
just a few scenarios which directly impact the validity of simulations. unfortunately you dont get 50k attempts per week to average it out. just the one.
even if you can accurately sim the exact encounter from start to finish, you WILL still get screwed over somehow. i dont argue with the results of sims on hard and fast single target tunnel encounters because it is the scenario in which fewer factors can come in to play. you dont have to stop dps, move, switch to adds or waste gcds bopping etc. so much of your damage is externally impacted by the skill and actions of the other people in your raid. so weird for an mmo...
you know what i do on Maloraok since we had 5 chain wipes from retards 5 weeks ago? I put RF on and afk the fight and get all 3 add sto middle instantly fight ends with me doing like 38 million to bloods. But at this point 1 night clear > wiping like to be on WoW as little as possible till WoD if that makes sense.
Also funfact this week one shot everything up to thok. Then wiped to thok for an hour and then an hour or 2 the second day. Then one shot the last 3. A far cry from our 4 hour full clear week before by far.
Permanently retired MMO player. Freedom is nice.
disregard ranks, acquire one night clears.
its the dream...
too many times oneshotting everything up to like siegecrafter then wiping on paragons for two hours. demolish both paragons and garrosh in one attempt the next night...