1. #1261
    Fluffy Kitten Krekko's Avatar
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    Enough discussion on Anaxie and the ban. If you have an issue with the conduct of Moderators or with a ban, feel free to message Sunshine or a Super-Moderator (Blue Mod) on the forums to discuss it further.

    Keep this great thread on topic, please!-Krekko
    Last edited by Krekko; 2013-02-10 at 11:19 PM.
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  2. #1262
    Mechagnome Neldarie's Avatar
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    Q: Today I had to bench myself as the raid leader on Sha of Fear 10m H progress because Ret DPS is terrible. Any buffs in sight?
    A: I'm assuming you understand the problem where DPS is very hard to measure on that fight since everyone is so spread out

    That made my day... sorreh
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  3. #1263
    Quote Originally Posted by Neldarie View Post
    Q: Today I had to bench myself as the raid leader on Sha of Fear 10m H progress because Ret DPS is terrible. Any buffs in sight?
    A: I'm assuming you understand the problem where DPS is very hard to measure on that fight since everyone is so spread out

    That made my day... sorreh
    Ghostcrawler's a tool. If you're measuring it based solely on the second phase, it's still really bad.

  4. #1264
    I'll probably get lyched for this, but here we go anyway.

    It's not as bad fight as your first impression gives (at least my feelings were). P1 doesn't matter at all and for P2 you just have to go div. purpose + lights hammer + exo glyph to not feel completely useless in adds.

    Defensively, for huddles especially we have alot of good stuff; Unbreakable spirit = -40% for self every huddle (or Purity, assuming it works, not tried) and selfless healer flash to save a low hp ally. bubble sac / loh / devo aura for those "3 healers in huddle" calls.

    (can't post links) worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-juu6d5k2izxldeo9/analyze/dd/source/?target=111&s=2928&e=4161 Log for our last kill, 7/17 in adds and total damage done in P2 - sure it's not top but playing Ret can't expect to be #1 either, we just bring too much to raid.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-11 at 11:24 AM ----------

    Didn't check rng of the fight tho, major part how many huddles you sit, of course.

  5. #1265
    Mechagnome Neldarie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zendai View Post
    I'll probably get lyched for this, but here we go anyway.

    It's not as bad fight as your first impression gives (at least my feelings were). P1 doesn't matter at all and for P2 you just have to go div. purpose + lights hammer + exo glyph to not feel completely useless in adds.

    Defensively, for huddles especially we have alot of good stuff; Unbreakable spirit = -40% for self every huddle (or Purity, assuming it works, not tried) and selfless healer flash to save a low hp ally. bubble sac / loh / devo aura for those "3 healers in huddle" calls.

    (can't post links) worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-juu6d5k2izxldeo9/analyze/dd/source/?target=111&s=2928&e=4161 Log for our last kill, 7/17 in adds and total damage done in P2 - sure it's not top but playing Ret can't expect to be #1 either, we just bring too much to raid.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-11 at 11:24 AM ----------

    Didn't check rng of the fight tho, major part how many huddles you sit, of course.
    Nah its fine , just that 10manH sha is very different to 25manH one both numerically and mechanically in p2. I'd be really surprised if ret had any problems of validating their spot in 25man version. Mainly because you do not sit in huddles; which leads to alot less circlejerk divinestorming since adds take alot longer to gather.
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  6. #1266
    Quote Originally Posted by Neldarie View Post
    Nah its fine , just that 10manH sha is very different to 25manH one both numerically and mechanically in p2. I'd be really surprised if ret had any problems of validating their spot in 25man version. Mainly because you do not sit in huddles; which leads to alot less circlejerk divinestorming since adds take alot longer to gather.
    I would say rets are good for 25m because you can purity every huddle. In our 25m we never broke huddles.

  7. #1267
    light's hammer is kinda awful for p2 sha, adds being kitted in the most retarded spots means they aren't getting hit for long, ES is mostly fine, but it's also very strat dependent, i.e my guild doesn't have me or rvvo switch on adds till the much later waves when the boss is around 25% and our dmg on adds isn't terrible for the uptime we have on them. Ret's are great on 25 man sha btw fucking HA or DP fucking so stronk

  8. #1268
    Yeah, I'm fairly confident no one uses light's hammer for sha, the adds move too much. Like Vigi said, in a 25m setting Rets can generally sit on the boss and just passive cleave with DS and HoTR and then swap to adds super late in the fight. Obviously we won't be top add damage, but we do a similar amount of damage as to if we were to run around killing adds the whole time. We only really lose the censure damage of rolling multiple stacks in adds.

  9. #1269
    Quote Originally Posted by Revvo View Post
    Yeah, I'm fairly confident no one uses light's hammer for sha, the adds move too much. Like Vigi said, in a 25m setting Rets can generally sit on the boss and just passive cleave with DS and HoTR and then swap to adds super late in the fight. Obviously we won't be top add damage, but we do a similar amount of damage as to if we were to run around killing adds the whole time. We only really lose the censure damage of rolling multiple stacks in adds.
    Or you can just not suck at rolling 3+ stacks and pony up, just saying digglet

  10. #1270
    Quote Originally Posted by Vigilanti View Post
    Or you can just not suck at rolling 3+ stacks and pony up, just saying digglet
    Yeah, but the damage difference is minimal at best. :P

  11. #1271
    Quote Originally Posted by Revvo View Post
    Yeah, I'm fairly confident no one uses light's hammer for sha, the adds move too much.
    Comparing our last logs vs yours (only P2), damage of lights hammer was 8M vs 4M of ES. Kinda big difference to ignore.

    worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-en35r4915tkev5gb/details/11/?s=12030&e=13010

    worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-juu6d5k2izxldeo9/details/74/?s=3288&e=4162

  12. #1272
    So I asked for trinket ICDs and mechanics for all the new trinkets on the PTR Class and Set Bonus Issues II thread because every theorycrafter could benefit from that information, not just us Ret Paladins. Hopefully I get a response on that.

  13. #1273
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    So I asked for trinket ICDs and mechanics for all the new trinkets on the PTR Class and Set Bonus Issues II thread because every theorycrafter could benefit from that information, not just us Ret Paladins. Hopefully I get a response on that.
    It seems trinkets are using the new Real PPM system. I only got my hands on a caster trinket from LFR though but it has a 2 RPPM (sometimes proc again after 20s and sometimes after 2m).

  14. #1274
    Quote Originally Posted by Zendai View Post
    Comparing our last logs vs yours (only P2), damage of lights hammer was 8M vs 4M of ES. Kinda big difference to ignore.

    worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-en35r4915tkev5gb/details/11/?s=12030&e=13010

    worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-juu6d5k2izxldeo9/details/74/?s=3288&e=4162
    Well we don't have our Rets hard swap to adds until the very last 2 sets of adds, I was specced SW for more single target damage on Sha, AND I did only 2mil less damage than you on adds? Vigi was specced HA, with ES and he did just as much damage as you. Your strat is most likely different, our adds aren't in the same spot long enough for LH to be effective, not to mention the loss of Sha DPS.

  15. #1275
    Legendary! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Runewrath View Post
    I would say rets are good for 25m because you can purity every huddle. In our 25m we never broke huddles.
    25man has more "room" for support than 10man has, but even then if you have a tankadin, 1-2 holy paladins there's not much use for more than 1 ret. My guild usually ends up going 2 holy + 2 ret. Good coverage of devo auras and alot of hands to go out, but that's the "limit" on how useful paladins (rets) are atm I fear and I'm 99% sure that we'd go with a tankadin and 1 less ret if we had a tankadin (or a third holy pala if the fight allows it).
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  16. #1276
    Ring of the Golden Stair or Ring of the Bladest Tempest (Rf)?

  17. #1277
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    25man has more "room" for support than 10man has, but even then if you have a tankadin, 1-2 holy paladins there's not much use for more than 1 ret. My guild usually ends up going 2 holy + 2 ret. Good coverage of devo auras and alot of hands to go out, but that's the "limit" on how useful paladins (rets) are atm I fear and I'm 99% sure that we'd go with a tankadin and 1 less ret if we had a tankadin (or a third holy pala if the fight allows it).
    Oh absolutely, we have 2 holy and then me. But we have 3 warriors who bring so much more sadly.

  18. #1278
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    25man has more "room" for support than 10man has, but even then if you have a tankadin, 1-2 holy paladins there's not much use for more than 1 ret. My guild usually ends up going 2 holy + 2 ret. Good coverage of devo auras and alot of hands to go out, but that's the "limit" on how useful paladins (rets) are atm I fear and I'm 99% sure that we'd go with a tankadin and 1 less ret if we had a tankadin (or a third holy pala if the fight allows it).
    Sad thing is that while Purity is very good for Sha HC, only so many is favorable. Say you have a tankadin and a holy paladin. That's 2 out of 5 huddles. Then you have a warrior or 2 with intervene and a disc priest or two that can focus shields on one or two. So yes, Purity is great. But bringing 5 paladins(that being 2 or 3 rets) that kinda loses more than you gain. Atleast that is my opinion.
    We also have all melee(except for DK's) go all out on boss until the 2nd wave of 8 adds. At that point everyone kills 2 waves of adds and then we kite the rest. Pretty standard. So my focus is killing the boss, which if you took a parse for boss only damage, i wouldn't be useless at all. Although other melee classes could surpass me even with more dmg on adds.

  19. #1279
    The thing is, if your MT is your prot paladin, they won't be doing purities. The loss of a GCD, and the loss of unbreakable spirit is too much. They need those DPs to survive thrash, and if they lose a GCD to purity, they may not be able to even get a SoTR up for every one without sitting on HP forever.

  20. #1280
    is prot paladin a good choice for tanking sha 25hc?

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