1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Exemplar is dead wrong as always.

    Secondaries have twice the budget on gems you get 2 haste for every one strength.

    use Strength /haste in red. Straight haste in yellows.

    2+2 is more then 3.71
    Balhale's weights finally look accurate expect mastery to jump periodically per weapon tiers. Be glad we have powerful ratings for EVERYTHING in MoP. We should be scaling very well in T15 BIS + Valor upgraded gear in 5.1.
    Well yeah what I mean is that I'd use oranges in reds for socket bonuses.

    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Please do not take crit over mastery, also SW with 4 set is only 1% higher? right! Well I guess we know who not to listen to in MoP.
    SPOILER: EJ
    I agree that it has to be a little more significant than that. It's obvious if you're just looking at what is affecting what, which is benefiting the most. You get a lot more hammers with Sanctified Wrath and the longer duration just makes it much more flexible in overlap with other effects, like trinkets. Holy Avenger doesn't benefit much because delaying Avenging Wrath to line it up with it is probably going to make you lose out on an entire (or partial) Avenging Wrath. In Divine Purpose's case, Avenging Wrath would be up more to proc within its duration, but Divine Purpose isn't something you can control, so it's hit and miss.

    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    If you are on the fence which professions to get and swapping is no issue go Engineering. Execution sentences has a very large coif and since springs and ES has same CD and duration ES will be much stronger for all engineers. Nevermind every 2 casts one will be under the effect of +20% wings. Also Bombs are back with no cast time Unlike the terrible cata bombs.
    It's a little more complicated than that... I have a lot more work to do on cooldown rotations to see what could be better - but in the case of trinkets, ideally, you want the first Darkmist Vortex proc at the start to be slower and all the rest after that to be really quick. It's better if Lei Shin's Final Orders ends up proccing more slowly in general. These aren't things you can control directly, but you should plan your Avenging Wrath appropriately - say, for example, if Darkmist Vortex ends up proccing 5 seconds before you use your first Avenging Wrath - in that case, you would obviously want to use your second Avenging Wrath on cooldown because you'd get the most uptime out of Lei Shin's Final Orders 3rd proc, whether it procs faster or slower.

    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    I also recommend Blacksmithing because ratings will only grow stronger and stronger likely dwarfing str 1:1 in the final tier with out of control scaling. A 40K top end weapon from Garrosh is likely or Legendary. Blacksmithing also has the perk of auto inflating it's value with epic gems while cata proves professions won't always be compensated for lagging behind others.

    I may swap myself later since this alone could cause a large variance in dps for top parses.
    I'm so glad I ditched mining for blacksmithing way back when in ICC. Cost almost nothing too because I mined most of the mats.

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    If you have reliable countdowns on your pulls, on the appropriate encounter, it's totally worth it - EVEN IF you do it 5 seconds before the pull - but that's a bit extreme. You could do it 3-4 seconds before pull and have it all done in 1.5 seconds using a macro like this:

    /script LearnTalent(13)
    /cast Guardian of Ancient Kings
    /equip Helmet of Radiant Glory
    /equip Battleplate of Radiant Glory
    /equip Gauntlets of Radiant Glory
    /equip Legplates of Radiant Glory
    /use Golemblood Potion

    I've been able to consolidate the process into 2 macros which you can activate one after the other right before you enter combat. Outside of making sure you start off with SW learned, you don't need to do any manual removing/learning of talents; the macros will take care of removing SW and learning HA/DP for you.

    Opening Sequence:

    1) Make sure you have Sanctified Wrath learned as your Lvl 75 talent.
    2) Wait for pre-pull countdown to reach 2-3 seconds left
    3) Press keybind for Macro 1 to pop wings, put on T11 prot and unlearn SW in one GCD
    4) Press keybind for Macro 2 to pop GOAK+pot, put ret gear back on and learn HA/DP in one GCD
    5) Enter combat with ~44 second GOAK up, strength pot active, ~28 second wings with SW active, AND HA or DP available

    Macro 1:
    /cast Avenging Wrath
    /equipset [name of T11 Prot pre-pull set]
    /click TalentMicroButton
    /click PlayerTalentFrameTalentsTalentRow5Talent1
    /click StaticPopup1Button1

    Macro 2:
    /use Golemblood Potion
    /cast Guardian of Ancient Kings
    /equipset [name of Ret gear set]
    /script LearnTalent(13)
    /click PlayerTalentFrameCloseButton


    You need both gear sets saved in Equipment Manager and lots of Dusts of Disappearance. LearnTalent(13) is for HA, substitute LearnTalent(15) for DP as posted by Reith earlier. Since you are popping wings with Macro 1, you'll want to activate Macro 2 immediately after and both as close as possible to entering combat in order to maximize uptime of 30 second AW.

    The last 3 lines in Macro 1 are click commands with button codes. Basically it'll open the talent window, click on HA so the pop-up to remove SW comes up, and then click "Yes". Using click commands is the only way I've found to macro removing a talent. I tried /script RemoveTalent(14) but apparently its a blocked action. Note that since the Macro 1 opens the talent menu, the talent menu cannot be already open when its activated or it won't work.

    If you choose HA, burst is pretty ridiculous for that 18 second window when both AW with SW and HA are active along with GOAK/pot/Inq/procs/trinkets - basically Exo HoW TV HoW TV HoW TV HoW TV Exo HoW TV HoW TV HoW TV lol. Makes me wish pre-pull Moonwell Chalice wasn't nerfed a couple patches back so we could throw that extra 1700 mastery onto the stack too.
    Last edited by tavistra; 2012-09-21 at 12:19 PM.

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Exemplar is dead wrong as always.

    Secondaries have twice the budget on gems you get 2 haste for every one strength.

    use Strength /haste in red. Straight haste in yellows.

    2+2 is more then 3.71
    To be fair, Exemplar says that gemming straight Str in Red looks better in pre-raid gear only, but that Str/Haste is much better in T14H.

    Edit! - I played with his newest spreadsheet release for a bit, and used the same pre-raid gear used by SimC. Gemming haste as much as possible was definitely a dps increase. Matching all sockets prioritizing STR gave 53.2k dps, but prioritizing Haste gave 54.1k dps.

    I still think both SimC and the spreadsheet are having a really difficult time at modeling haste. Str is still better point for point, but the doubled up secondary stats on gems make haste king.
    Last edited by Zephur; 2012-09-21 at 12:37 PM.

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by tavistra View Post
    The last 3 lines in Macro 1 are click commands with button codes. Basically it'll open the talent window, click on HA so the pop-up to remove SW comes up, and then click "Yes". Using click commands is the only way I've found to macro removing a talent. I tried /script RemoveTalent(14) but apparently its a blocked action. Note that since the Macro 1 opens the talent menu, the talent menu cannot be already open when its activated or it won't work.

    Yeah, I ran into the same problem and figured click was the only way, but I was too lazy to go digging for the specific commands for it. Nice job finding them. What some people might not realize however is that the ret set with T11 prot HAS to have the same trinkets you're going to use for the fight. That's the only thing people could really screw up - that and it takes a small amount of time for equipment to switch, so timing is key. Practice makes perfect.

    Quote Originally Posted by tavistra View Post
    If you choose HA, burst is pretty ridiculous for that 18 second window when both AW with SW and HA are active along with GOAK/pot/Inq/procs/trinkets - basically Exo HoW TV HoW TV HoW TV HoW TV Exo HoW TV HoW TV HoW TV lol. Makes me wish pre-pull Moonwell Chalice wasn't nerfed a couple patches back so we could throw that extra 1700 mastery onto the stack too.
    Why would you ever want to use Exorcism during Holy Avenger with Sanctified Wrath active? You can use HoW > TV repeatedly for maximum damage.

  5. #225
    I really hope that all this talent / GoaK stuff gets patched or hotfixed. I'd much rather have the DPS it contributes spread out over the rest of my rotation.

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    Why would you ever want to use Exorcism during Holy Avenger with Sanctified Wrath active? You can use HoW > TV repeatedly for maximum damage.

    I initially was doing just HoW > TV spam, but I was thinking you can lose Exos by 1) leaving it off CD and pushing it back, 2) not using the proc 3) blocking new procs, and with the 30% damage boost from HA that TV doesn't get, maybe Exo > TV during HA. You're GCD capped during the 18 second window, so I was thinking it might be better to sub in Exos over TVs.

    However it was early morning and I certainly didn't math anything out, so you could totally be correct, I just don't know for sure.

    ---------- Post added 2012-09-21 at 12:31 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Zephur View Post
    I really hope that all this talent / GoaK stuff gets patched or hotfixed. I'd much rather have the DPS it contributes spread out over the rest of my rotation.
    I agree that its annoying, but if it were hotfixed, we'd likely just lose it without getting a bump in sustained dps.
    Last edited by tavistra; 2012-09-21 at 04:33 PM.

  7. #227
    Why would you ever want to use Exorcism during Holy Avenger with Sanctified Wrath active? You can use HoW > TV repeatedly for maximum damage.
    You can't have both talents. HoW will be on CD sometimes if you pick HA over SW.

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by tavistra View Post
    I initially was doing just HoW > TV spam, but I was thinking you can lose Exos by 1) leaving it off CD and pushing it back, 2) not using the proc 3) blocking new procs, and with the 30% damage boost from HA that TV doesn't get, maybe Exo > TV during HA. You're GCD capped during the 18 second window, so I was thinking it might be better to sub in Exos over TVs.

    However it was early morning and I certainly didn't math anything out, so you could totally be correct, I just don't know for sure.
    Exorcism is less damage than Templar's Verdict, always (in PVE single-target anyway). Exorcism doesn't benefit from mastery.

    Quote Originally Posted by Equalizer View Post
    You can't have both talents. HoW will be on CD sometimes if you pick HA over SW.
    ... did you even read the earlier posts? You can have both at the beginning if you start with Sanctified Wrath, activate Avenging Wrath and switch talents before the pull.

  9. #229
    Stood in the Fire NPSlow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Posts
    388
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    ... did you even read the earlier posts? You can have both at the beginning if you start with Sanctified Wrath, activate Avenging Wrath and switch talents before the pull.
    This is disturbing to me
    Guatama - Enhancement
    Slowbrah - Retribution/Holy
    Jamespage - Demonology PVP
    Evocati (H - Zul'jin) is recruiting for 25 man.
    Visit our website to apply.

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by NPSlow View Post
    This is disturbing to me
    I'm going to try it later on LFR Ultraxion just to see what kind of burst I can put out. >_>

    I've been charting trinket procs for Darkmist Vortex and Lei Shin's Final Orders at 1, 3 and 5 second delays (after ICD is done) and having two trinkets with ICD procs is cumbersome. We're going to have to track them AND have general timers in order to maximize DPS because using Avenging Wrath on cooldown in general with T14 4-set and Darkmist Vortex is no good. If only Darkmist Vortex's ICD was 1:40 and Lei Shin's Final Orders' ICD was 50 seconds... *daydreams* Anyway, Execution Sentence benefits if you can pop it while Lei Shin's Final Orders are up because it takes the strength at cast, so in some cases, delaying Execution Sentence a few seconds if Lei Shin's Final Orders is going to proc within that time is best - hence the need for trinket timers and general timers.

  11. #231
    I am Murloc! anaxie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    My Throne
    Posts
    5,980
    Alot of ppl have been pokin at me to update op. Expect a fresh OP Saturday - Monday

  12. #232
    Stood in the Fire NPSlow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Posts
    388
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    (execution sentence) because it takes the strength at cast
    This is the exact information I was thinking about at work earlier, but more in regards for use with engineering hand tinkers, since I hear the cooldowns match up nicely.
    Guatama - Enhancement
    Slowbrah - Retribution/Holy
    Jamespage - Demonology PVP
    Evocati (H - Zul'jin) is recruiting for 25 man.
    Visit our website to apply.

  13. #233
    I am Murloc! anaxie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    My Throne
    Posts
    5,980
    Already cited that earlier as an example why any serious ret should consider swapping to engineering in the coming months.

    Execution sentence is very strong, 1:30 sec wings means ever 2 synapses will beunder Wings, HoW relies HEAVILY on strength and is our main source of damage under AW. All these things make Engineering destroy all competition at 90.

  14. #234
    I think a good part of the reason why Exemplar's spreadsheet consistently shows DP as approaching HA and SW in value at 90 is because the spreadsheet isn't as effective as SimC at modeling things like cooldown stacking.

  15. #235
    Field Marshal Panzerlol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    68
    This is isnt all that relevant though.

    I mean, everyone can go to wowhead and search for weapons/items and sort them by ilvl. BIS is a bit off anyway, those who have a shot at getting all hc clears in the first possible week most likely know all this already.

    Don't get me wrong, you did a good effort! But for the "normal" people, i think a list of preraid bis is more interesting. Where and how to start, counting 5man hcs, rep items, profession items and stuff like that.

    I never really understood how knowing what's BIS is hard? The only mildly hard task there can be in evaluating trinkets, as they can have funky effects.

  16. #236
    I am Murloc! anaxie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    My Throne
    Posts
    5,980
    Quote Originally Posted by Panzerlol View Post
    This is isnt all that relevant though.

    I mean, everyone can go to wowhead and search for weapons/items and sort them by ilvl. BIS is a bit off anyway, those who have a shot at getting all hc clears in the first possible week most likely know all this already.

    Don't get me wrong, you did a good effort! But for the "normal" people, i think a list of preraid bis is more interesting. Where and how to start, counting 5man hcs, rep items, profession items and stuff like that.

    I never really understood how knowing what's BIS is hard? The only mildly hard task there can be in evaluating trinkets, as they can have funky effects.
    Okay? You can leave now. Also BIS is off! Are you blind to the Giant letters on the OP?

  17. #237

    Really

    Quote Originally Posted by Panzerlol View Post
    This is isnt all that relevant though.

    I mean, everyone can go to wowhead and search for weapons/items and sort them by ilvl. BIS is a bit off anyway, those who have a shot at getting all hc clears in the first possible week most likely know all this already.

    Don't get me wrong, you did a good effort! But for the "normal" people, i think a list of preraid bis is more interesting. Where and how to start, counting 5man hcs, rep items, profession items and stuff like that.

    I never really understood how knowing what's BIS is hard? The only mildly hard task there can be in evaluating trinkets, as they can have funky effects.
    I don't post much I read alot on this fourm but im here everyday, and This comment pissed me off so much I decided to post....please keep your negative attitude of this thread man Anaxie does a Great job and take alot of time out of his day to put togather threads like this. Also there are many other great Rets that make good threads like this also. So please if you don't have anything to contrubute to the thread DON'T post ..... Anaxie thanks for all your post ....Im always reading from the sidelines !!!! Sorry spelling and grammar on smart phone hard to type!!!!

  18. #238
    I am Murloc! anaxie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    My Throne
    Posts
    5,980
    Quote Originally Posted by daneker View Post
    I don't post much I read alot on this fourm but im here everyday, and This comment pissed me off so much I decided to post....please keep your negative attitude of this thread man Anaxie does a Great job and take alot of time out of his day to put togather threads like this. Also there are many other great Rets that make good threads like this also. So please if you don't have anything to contrubute to the thread DON'T post ..... Anaxie thanks for all your post ....Im always reading from the sidelines !!!! Sorry spelling and grammar on smart phone hard to type!!!!
    Thanks, I'm gonna be doing the new op in about an hour so ppl have something to read before 12PST :P
    Yes I'm lazy and procrastinate to the last day.

  19. #239
    Moderator Malthanis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Not nearly out of the way enough
    Posts
    4,535
    Quote Originally Posted by Panzerlol View Post
    This is isnt all that relevant though.

    I mean, everyone can go to wowhead and search for weapons/items and sort them by ilvl. BIS is a bit off anyway, those who have a shot at getting all hc clears in the first possible week most likely know all this already.

    Don't get me wrong, you did a good effort! But for the "normal" people, i think a list of preraid bis is more interesting. Where and how to start, counting 5man hcs, rep items, profession items and stuff like that.

    I never really understood how knowing what's BIS is hard? The only mildly hard task there can be in evaluating trinkets, as they can have funky effects.
    Why is it so bad that somebody wanted to put together a list for others to find, as a service/favor/help to them so they don't have to go search for it themselves? Criticism is welcome here (as long as it's constructive), but your "your thread is useless lol" attitude is not.

    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Thanks, I'm gonna be doing the new op in about an hour so ppl have something to read before 12PST :P
    Yes I'm lazy and procrastinate to the last day.
    Shame on you (even though I only finished paying off my copy yesterday after having it on reserve for several months).

  20. #240
    I am Murloc! Alenarien's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Antrim, Northern Ireland
    Posts
    5,487
    Oh look, another one of these threads. You could at least ask a mod to remove the 'totally awesome' part from the title to make it sound a little less pretentious and not give the impression that you consider yourself to be Blizzard's gift unto the lowly masses.
    "Can your blood atone for genocide, orc? Your Horde killed countless innocents with its rampage across Stormwind and Lordaeron. Do you really think you can just sweep all that away and cast aside your guilt so easily? No, your kind will never change, and I will never stop fighting you." - Grand Admiral Proudmoore

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •