1. #2701
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    I'm doing synapse springs ~ 7-8 seconds before feather of ji'kun expires, not much that 1920str (or whatever synapse spring is) is going to affect more than ES. Doing that I get synapse + ji'kun trinket combined for at least 5-6 seconds instead of having it macroed into ES which I've found to work better. Pretty sure it doesn't matter a whole lot though, you're maybe talking that you get 30k damage extra... that is unless you're seal changing (if you got the time) to make Censure tick for over double for 12-13sec.
    I'll get a try casting it on lasts seconds of feather's buff, yes it will be not a great gain, but perhaps can help to scale 1-2 lines on recount, especially combined with a couple of full-holy-damage TV :P.
    Btw i did some good numbers on Megaera HM killing adds, obtained a good rank 6. On long-living adds retri dps is not so bad at least...

  2. #2702
    High Overlord Rikhx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neldarie View Post
    And set bonuses which are prolly more important.

    And ye as people posted earlier outdpsing people on farm = 1. Outdpsing them on progress = real deal. Now wru that Lei ShenH kill already?!
    Talking to me? I've been willingly sitting out on both Lei shen and Ra-den last month we've killed them since I don't need anything from either, and loot from ra-den is not something I'll get. I've gotten tired of beeing in on Lei shen and wiping due to people beeing bad every week, had a several 1-5% wipes so I just cba with the boss and only really come if they need me.

    And lets be honest Ra-den is probably the biggest dissapointment of a fight this tier either way.

  3. #2703
    Legendary! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphyr View Post
    I'll get a try casting it on lasts seconds of feather's buff, yes it will be not a great gain, but perhaps can help to scale 1-2 lines on recount, especially combined with a couple of full-holy-damage TV :P.
    Btw i did some good numbers on Megaera HM killing adds, obtained a good rank 6. On long-living adds retri dps is not so bad at least...
    ret aoe on 5+ targets (iirc) within 8yards is top 3. We're beasts when there's a lot of mobs clumped up... it's almost scary.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-10 at 02:54 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikhx View Post
    Talking to me? I've been willingly sitting out on both Lei shen and Ra-den last month we've killed them since I don't need anything from either, and loot from ra-den is not something I'll get. I've gotten tired of beeing in on Lei shen and wiping due to people beeing bad every week, had a several 1-5% wipes so I just cba with the boss and only really come if they need me.

    And lets be honest Ra-den is probably the biggest dissapointment of a fight this tier either way.
    Needing a ret
    Apex low on holy paladins? only thing I can think of that's needed by a ret (paladin) on Lei shen, ofc bubble is nice.
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  4. #2704
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    ret aoe on 5+ targets (iirc) within 8yards is top 3.
    Don't you guys start to feel that 8 yards is a bit small of a radius for Divine Storm, considering you have to move/rotate constantly to make HotR land (damn mob-targetting ability)? I mean, not always the mobs are and stay clumped a la Gorefiend's Grasp. Death and Decay - 30yards, Blood Boil - 10 yards, Pestilence - 10 yards increased by Pestilence by 5 more yards. All AoE abilities with no "face the single target" absolete requirement.

  5. #2705
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaling View Post
    Looks like 5.3 is happening next reset. What will you all be upgrading with your first 3k valor?

    I haven't gotten into heroics yet, but I'll still be dropping valor on my trinkets (522 feather/spark) and weapon (522 council) at a minimum. I have a few other pre-heroic BiS items that won't get replaced for awhile, such as the BS boots and Iron Qon hands, and then any 522 tier.
    Upgrade your vp ring. BIS pre Ra-den

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-10 at 04:11 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikhx View Post
    None of my current #1's on Dark Animus and Iron Qon were cheesed in any way. Can you even cheese on DA? ._.
    With all the shit going on trying to cheese would prolly make you lose dps I'd think. That and ret is pretty exceptional on DA single target DPS.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-10 at 04:16 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Neldarie View Post
    Umm ret paladins are shit, untill you outgear content to hell where it is >irrelevant<.
    There is prolly only 2 25man guilds worth looking at nowadays when thinking "cutting-edge".
    Like stop pretending and go back to gear people had 2 weeks after ToT was released and look at class performances then. Thats the only time when it truelly matters, the time where you don't see ret doing so well...
    Any melee dps is a liability. Only reason top tier guilds do bring em is (soaking/absorbing) gear. Because, yes 530 melee > 525 and under ranged. But what did they actually bring? Ret? Hell no, waste of conq tokens, seeing how those are alot better used elsewhere. It was all dks/rogues.
    You are so jaded Nelda. What the hell happened too you.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-10 at 04:21 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by SirRaven View Post
    Don't you guys start to feel that 8 yards is a bit small of a radius for Divine Storm, considering you have to move/rotate constantly to make HotR land (damn mob-targetting ability)? I mean, not always the mobs are and stay clumped a la Gorefiend's Grasp. Death and Decay - 30yards, Blood Boil - 10 yards, Pestilence - 10 yards increased by Pestilence by 5 more yards. All AoE abilities with no "face the single target" absolete requirement.
    I would prefer Exo be 5 yards and not melee range to hit the cleave, Larger spread, Divine storm 10 /15 yards, HotR requires no target. ALot of things could help improve our aoe by strides without an damage adjustments.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-05-10 at 04:17 PM.

  6. #2706
    It's not many times that i can think off, that Blizzard buffed us w/t first a sea of tears on forums. It's interesting to see to say the least. Maybe they are addressing scaling issues in future patch, pvp QQ, who knows.

    However, I would prefer 1.000.000 times to see a utility buff rather a dps buff. Specifically i would be happy if they brought back judgement of light & wisdom just for Ret instead of this damage buff even if it was in the form of a cool-down or proc (aka on top of the art of war exo proc you can now judge light or wisdom).

  7. #2707
    Quote Originally Posted by Rikhx View Post
    I really don't like this post of yours, you don't have much faith in your capabilities as a ret, do you?
    lol? I'm the best DPS in my guild. Not much faith in my capabilities... psh. I just don't get fed tricks and I don't have the gear because we've only killed like 3 heroic bosses.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-10 at 12:01 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikhx View Post
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-5e...?s=2346&e=2885 - This is our latest Iron Qon kill, 3 dps got world #1 ranks including me, and this is only an example. Apex is far from mediocre dps, you guys just need to stop having this dumb mentality that ret paladins are shit, like everyone else thinks.
    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Iron_Qon/...14/60/default/ This is reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikhx View Post
    This week I finally got gear on par with most of our top dpsers in our guild(Even still behind some), and I can 100% say that I surprised 90% of my guild concerning ret dps on most fights that I did this reset. With the 15% buff next patch we're gonna look pretty good on most fights, obviously not all cuz some fights are just dumb(hello council/durumu).
    It's not a 15% buff, it's a 9-11% buff depending how much AOE is involved.

  8. #2708
    High Overlord Rikhx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    lol? I'm the best DPS in my guild. Not much faith in my capabilities... psh. I just don't get fed tricks and I don't have the gear because we've only killed like 3 heroic bosses.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-10 at 12:01 PM ----------


    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Iron_Qon/...14/60/default/ This is reality.


    It's not a 15% buff, it's a 9-11% buff depending how much AOE is involved.
    You make me facepalm. You take raidbots.com as your "reality dps check"? My god. Oh and for your information I have never ever in this whole tier gotten a single tricks, ever. So don't give me bullshit excuses please.

    And I don't really care how much it is, a buff is a buff either way. I never said ret is one of the best dps, or the best melee dps, but it's a whole lot better than all the QQ'ers on the forums make it out to be, and it sickens me to read it.

  9. #2709
    Mechagnome Neldarie's Avatar
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    Only person jaded here is prolly you. Anyways no point talking to people who were never on the real scene.
    WoW = Main: Ret Alt(s): War

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  10. #2710
    Quote Originally Posted by Rikhx View Post
    You make me facepalm. You take raidbots.com as your "reality dps check"? My god. Oh and for your information I have never ever in this whole tier gotten a single tricks, ever. So don't give me bullshit excuses please.
    Trust me if I get around the RNG you got and I had the gear you had, I'll handily beat you on Iron Qon and Twins when my guild actually gets to them. Raidbots is more accurate than your small sample size. Your personal experience is tinted by rose-colored glasses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikhx View Post
    And I don't really care how much it is, a buff is a buff either way. I never said ret is one of the best dps, or the best melee dps, but it's a whole lot better than all the QQ'ers on the forums make it out to be, and it sickens me to read it.
    Oh hold on, let me get a quote here. Quoting Paragon in response to someone asking why they carried a Fury Warrior: "In progression we have to have someone take str gear and we damn sure didnt want to give to a ret lol."

  11. #2711
    Quote Originally Posted by Rikhx View Post
    You make me facepalm. You take raidbots.com as your "reality dps check"? My god.
    The average is way more important on how 3-4 rets are performing. Trust me when i say, Bliz is looking at the average player and not the top performing ones. From a statistical point of view it makes sense as well.

    And if you really wanted to "prove a point" by linking wol, then you should make a spreadsheet with your rank #1s vs the other classes and specs rank #1s short it by dps and come back and say again "we are performing ok". Cause those 2 other people that ranked as well are all above you, while classes that should smoke ret's dps like your rogue didn't rank at all.

    So basically you said : Look guys, ret is fine. 3 of us got a rank 1, the other two had more dps than me, and some of the op classes that if played in the same level would had being on top too, i came in top 6 or so, but ret is fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neldarie View Post
    Anyways no point talking to people who were never on the real scene.
    Dear god Neld, i never realized this thread was targeted to the elitists few...
    Last edited by Meanor; 2013-05-10 at 05:40 PM.

  12. #2712
    Ok well enough with this fucking insult flinging last thing I want is moderation in my thread or a lock.

  13. #2713
    Mechagnome Neldarie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meanor View Post
    Dear god Neld, i never realized this thread was targeted to the elitists few...
    So you had to quote me there to contradict everything I've been saying (which is what you've been saying btw), good going.
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  14. #2714
    Quote Originally Posted by Neldarie View Post
    Only person jaded here is prolly you. Anyways no point talking to people who were never on the real scene.
    The real scene? You mean countless hours in a "top" guild that either burns itself out or churns an entire new roster tier after tier with something to prove. No thanks I have no desire for a commitment like that when it's not required to clear and obtain everything while putting up high ranks. Been doing that quite fine on my own since TBC launched.

    I'm likely to finish the tier in the next 2-3 weeks a Whole whopping 2 months and change. Atleast I'm confident I won't burn out in the next 2 expansions without the mass heroic alt raiding requirements, Mandatory PTR/Beta, Flooded bench roster mess that the "Real scene" represents.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-05-10 at 06:03 PM.

  15. #2715
    Mechagnome Neldarie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    The real scene? You mean countless hours in a "top" guild that either burns itself out or churns an entire new roster tier after tier with something to prove. No thanks I have no desire for a commitment like that when it's not required to clear and obtain everything while putting up high ranks. Been doing that quite fine on my own since TBC launched.

    I'm likely to finish the tier in the next 2-3 weeks a Whole whopping 2 months and change. Atleast I'm confident I won't burn out in the next 2 expansions without the mass heroic alt raiding requirements, Mandatory PTR/Beta, Flooded bench roster mess that the "Real scene" employs.

    I really don't recall that happening at all unless you gonna keep rubbing your ultraxian tenticles into everyone's faces.
    Anyways facts here: Same gear/skill/etc ret is underperforming currently (which can be said about warriors too btw). Hence the 5.3 buffs. Don't think anyone here was trying to stir shit or fling it around outside those few claiming they can rank high. Nobody cares about your shitty ranks on farm content anyways. People do care about what classes can bring during progress tho.
    WoW = Main: Ret Alt(s): War

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  16. #2716
    This is completely wrong, biased, pointless and doesn't mean jack but just for laughs and giggles just to prove a point, why is wrong not to look at the average rather a solo performance, i present you with all the rank #1s in hc iron qon 25 shorted by dps:

    1. Unholy DK 207746
    2. Fire Mage 205880
    3. Monk 202891
    4. Demo Lock 202467
    5. Assasination 200702
    6. Balance Druid 196184
    7. Affliction Lock 193516
    8. Enh Shamy 188249
    9. Feral Druid 187380
    10. Fury Warrior 185964
    11. Combat 182872
    12. Arcane Mage 182305
    13. Ele Shamy 180064
    14. Frost DK 179658
    15. Priest 178536
    16. Surv. Hunter 174249
    17. Destro Lock 173981
    18. Frost Mage 173812
    19. Ret 172278


    Very easy to see that even if we go with the logic that i got rank 1, was above average in my raid group thus ret is fine, ret is dead bottom. After the buff, rikh would had being #8 in that list bringing him just above average. In a raid environment however, ret would be in mid or bellow if we take consideration tank deeps (after upcoming buffs).

  17. #2717
    Quote Originally Posted by Neldarie View Post
    I really don't recall that happening at all unless you gonna keep rubbing your ultraxian tenticles into everyone's faces.
    Anyways facts here: Same gear/skill/etc ret is underperforming currently (which can be said about warriors too btw). Hence the 5.3 buffs. Don't think anyone here was trying to stir shit or fling it around outside those few claiming they can rank high.
    I've done alot more then Ultrax. That is probably just the most memorable because of how hilariously high my dps was when that rank went up. You can't really say anything about T14 when it's more about guild performance determining your dps on all but a few select encounters. This tier however? Well it has more then enough bosses to prove yourself on and I'm almost finished. Make sure to look up.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-10 at 06:14 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Meanor View Post
    This is completely wrong, biased, pointless and doesn't mean jack but just for laughs and giggles just to prove a point, why is wrong not to look at the average rather a solo performance, i present you with all the rank #1s in hc iron qon 25 shorted by dps:

    1. Unholy DK 207746
    2. Fire Mage 205880
    3. Monk 202891
    4. Demo Lock 202467
    5. Assasination 200702
    6. Balance Druid 196184
    7. Affliction Lock 193516
    8. Enh Shamy 188249
    9. Feral Druid 187380
    10. Fury Warrior 185964
    11. Combat 182872
    12. Arcane Mage 182305
    13. Ele Shamy 180064
    14. Frost DK 179658
    15. Priest 178536
    16. Surv. Hunter 174249
    17. Destro Lock 173981
    18. Frost Mage 173812
    19. Ret 172278


    Very easy to see that even if we go with the logic that i got rank 1, was above average in my raid group thus ret is fine, ret is dead bottom. After the buff, rikh would had being #8 in that list bringing him just above average. In a raid environment however, ret would be in mid or bellow if we take consideration tank deeps (after upcoming buffs).
    You mean iron qon a multitarget fight without mass aoe clumps has ret low on DPS? You don't say!

    Also lets consider this from the tip top rank 1s. It's very Important so bear with me.

    QON is a BEAST boss you know who gets beast racial? every horde class being a troll except rets. You know what else they get? BERSERKING a huge dps boost to mages and a few other classes.

    Lets not skew things too much without using common sense here. Thanks

    Is the buff pretty much all ret needed to give it insanely good single target? Pretty much. Do we still have aoe issues? Yes but those are mechanical issues not damage.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-05-10 at 06:23 PM.

  18. #2718
    Legendary! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirRaven View Post
    Don't you guys start to feel that 8 yards is a bit small of a radius for Divine Storm, considering you have to move/rotate constantly to make HotR land (damn mob-targetting ability)? I mean, not always the mobs are and stay clumped a la Gorefiend's Grasp. Death and Decay - 30yards, Blood Boil - 10 yards, Pestilence - 10 yards increased by Pestilence by 5 more yards. All AoE abilities with no "face the single target" absolete requirement.
    That's one of the problems, our aoe is so damn restricted that it's not fun or effective to use. things didn't have a target req it would help so much.

    When you guys (above me) try to validate a "DPS" ranking system consider that we're still (relativly) early in this tier, BiS gear or even sub-optimal gear is most likely miles and miles away for 90% of every player that parsed top 100 for their spec. Also there's no true single target fight this tier, the closest thing we have is Jin'rokh bu that gets fucked because of ranged being forced to move and not dps while melee can, then there's the damage buffs which are stronger for some than for others.

    The closest thing you can come to a definate list today (I hate to say it) is Sim, while simc isn't accurate in most cases and they show the "optimal" of everything it still gives you a image of the possible "roof" of single target of every spec. Which is sad, IMO every tier should have a pure gearcheck like Baleroc, Ultraxion and so on. It serves as a gate to progress where gear and skill seperates (more skill = less gear needed) and it gives everyone a clear point of how strong they are and how their character progress from week to week.
    Last edited by Huntingbear_grimbatol; 2013-05-10 at 06:32 PM.
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  19. #2719
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    You mean iron qon a multitarget fight without mass aoe clumps has ret low on DPS? You don't say!

    Lets not skew things too much without using common sense here. Thanks
    Lets start reading the conversations from the begging, thanks!

  20. #2720
    Quote Originally Posted by Meanor View Post
    Lets start reading the conversations from the begging, thanks!
    Sorry I'm just fuming and foaming at the mouth after the mind boggling shit posted recently here and the 50 pages i have spent in this abomination of a thread.

    Give it a look maybe your head will explode too.

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ould-it-happen

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