1. #2841
    The Patient Prometheous's Avatar
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    I actually like Durumu a lot. Ra-den looks fun too, but I guess we'll see when I get there.

  2. #2842
    Great reply Huntingbear, I appreciate it. It's so amazing how you can get in touch with top players and get their/your view on things. That said, here is something more I would like some clarification on.

    To excel as a ret paladin in a raid envoirement is the use of 'Hand'-spells, Selfless Healer procs, Lay on Hands etc mandatory or is that overcompensating? If it is something commonly used amongst you good rets I would like to get a view on different situations in this tier where it is very good to use them.

    Also, do you use mouseover macros for your 'Hand'-spells, Selfless Healer etc? Weakauras to display Selfless Healer stacks etc? Is it so important to use these different tools that the raid leader might aswell not bring you if you're not?

    Some insight to ret play would be really cool!

    Sincerely, Distinkt.

  3. #2843
    Quote Originally Posted by Prometheous View Post
    I think DP should be baseline again
    Never! Dont want to be an RNG rollercoaster again. Leave RNG to trinkets and set procs.

  4. #2844
    For hand spells(mainly sac), I generally communicate with my tanks about whether or not they need a cooldown at the moment, similar to the way healers do. Freedoms and salvs I don't really use much, other than freedoms on people with the frost spear debuff on Iron Qon, and salvs on people who ask for them occasionally. LoH I use on tanks and low raid memebers occasionally, but mostly tanks. Use it liberally with a prot paladin Main Tank. Same with selfless healer, but you can use it more often. I use Clique on grid and targetoftarget macros for hands, LoH, Flash of Light, and WoG. I use weakauras to track selfless healer procs.

  5. #2845
    Quote Originally Posted by Distinkt View Post
    Great reply Huntingbear, I appreciate it. It's so amazing how you can get in touch with top players and get their/your view on things. That said, here is something more I would like some clarification on.

    To excel as a ret paladin in a raid envoirement is the use of 'Hand'-spells, Selfless Healer procs, Lay on Hands etc mandatory or is that overcompensating? If it is something commonly used amongst you good rets I would like to get a view on different situations in this tier where it is very good to use them.

    Also, do you use mouseover macros for your 'Hand'-spells, Selfless Healer etc? Weakauras to display Selfless Healer stacks etc? Is it so important to use these different tools that the raid leader might aswell not bring you if you're not?

    Some insight to ret play would be really cool!

    Sincerely, Distinkt.
    Hand spells are really good utility. While they're mainly PvP focused, a good timing of your hand spells can save players and even turn what could have been a wipe into a kill. even though every hand spell is pretty niche and situational, they're some of the most important non-rotational or throughput abilities we have.

    Hand spells are something that requires insight into the natural flow of combat and the mechanics of the fight. knowing what ability should be used when and on what target is fundamental to optimal performance. especially since hand spells are all pretty unique: no other class brings something that mimics the hand spells, except if you count stuff like pain suppression in the same category as hand of sacrifice.
    Currently only reading the Funny Pictures Megathread because the rest of the forums is filled with piss, whiners and pissed whiners.

  6. #2846
    Got quite a dilemma. Here's my armoury http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Nvision/simple

    Now let's get to the point. Last night http://www.wowhead.com/item=96840 dropped so I took it since no one else wanted. Now, what's problematic. I also have http://www.wowhead.com/item=96617 in my bank but for the sake of p4, had to equip tier shoulders. Should I hunt for 522 tier chest and then equip those hc shoulders or stick with the HTF chest and keep 522 tier shoulders?

  7. #2847
    the tier chest has expertise/haste and the offset shoulders have haste/mastery.
    the tier shoulders have expertise/mastery and the offset chest has hit/crit.

    given that your reforges are already towards expertise instead of away from it, and that you're reforging mastery to expertise, the tier chest combined with offset shoulders will likely perform better.
    Currently only reading the Funny Pictures Megathread because the rest of the forums is filled with piss, whiners and pissed whiners.

  8. #2848
    Quote Originally Posted by Revvo View Post
    For hand spells(mainly sac), I generally communicate with my tanks about whether or not they need a cooldown at the moment, similar to the way healers do. Freedoms and salvs I don't really use much, other than freedoms on people with the frost spear debuff on Iron Qon, and salvs on people who ask for them occasionally. LoH I use on tanks and low raid memebers occasionally, but mostly tanks. Use it liberally with a prot paladin Main Tank. Same with selfless healer, but you can use it more often. I use Clique on grid and targetoftarget macros for hands, LoH, Flash of Light, and WoG. I use weakauras to track selfless healer procs.
    Purity was a game changer for primo

  9. #2849
    Is there any DR or haste plateau where mastery is better? I'm currently just over 14k haste and wondering if I should focus more on mastery or should I keep going with my haste priority reforges? I haven't sim'd things in years. I guess it's time I start?

  10. #2850
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanyn View Post
    Is there any DR or haste plateau where mastery is better?
    No

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanyn View Post
    wondering if I should focus more on mastery or should I keep going with my haste priority reforges?
    haste>str>mastery>crit
    So yes keep going with haste

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanyn View Post
    I haven't sim'd things in years. I guess it's time I start?
    Yes

  11. #2851
    The Patient Prometheous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bacildaf View Post
    Never! Dont want to be an RNG rollercoaster again. Leave RNG to trinkets and set procs.
    With their new pseudo-RNG I think it would be a lot better than everyone expects, no different than combobreaker for monks.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-17 at 06:35 PM ----------

    Also to further answer your question about mastery vs haste.

    Haste will remain our best stat now with RPPM trinkets and the meta gem. Having more mastery without losing haste is ideal, but never sacrifice haste for mastery (unless Boris drops, snatch that up as quick as you can).

  12. #2852
    Fluffy Kitten Krekko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanyn View Post
    Is there any DR or haste plateau where mastery is better? I'm currently just over 14k haste and wondering if I should focus more on mastery or should I keep going with my haste priority reforges? I haven't sim'd things in years. I guess it's time I start?
    No, there is no real plateau where you have to worry about for now. Keep haste as a priority, Mastery where applicable.

    It's never too late to get back into Simming though! I'd pick it up again, yeah!

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-17 at 06:43 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrooge McDuck View Post
    Hand spells are really good utility. While they're mainly PvP focused, a good timing of your hand spells can save players and even turn what could have been a wipe into a kill. even though every hand spell is pretty niche and situational, they're some of the most important non-rotational or throughput abilities we have.
    Scrooge hits this quite right on the head. Don't forsake your utility spells, or ever think you're "overcompensating" when they can be of any use. Utilize all your spells to the best of your ability at all given times.

    Nothing is better than saving your group from a wipe, or pushing forward in progression because of an well timed/well used utility spell.

    Lay On Hands saving the day is such a great feeling.
    -Retribution, the path of the protector or mender brought to it's natural conclusion; destroying evil before the weak need to be shielded from it, and before it can wound the innocent.
    Fix My DPS | Fix My Heals | Fix My Tanking |

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  13. #2853
    Legendary! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Distinkt View Post
    To excel as a ret paladin in a raid envoirement is the use of 'Hand'-spells, Selfless Healer procs, Lay on Hands etc mandatory or is that overcompensating? If it is something commonly used amongst you good rets I would like to get a view on different situations in this tier where it is very good to use them.

    Also, do you use mouseover macros for your 'Hand'-spells, Selfless Healer etc? Weakauras to display Selfless Healer stacks etc? Is it so important to use these different tools that the raid leader might aswell not bring you if you're not?

    Some insight to ret play would be really cool!

    Sincerely, Distinkt.
    I got VuhDo (raid frames add on with mouse over built in) to use all my utility spells from Flash heals (selfless healer) all hand abilities and cleanse (and much more). This tier has a couple bosses where a paladin hand ability or dispel is REALLY useful, Council frost debuff(s) can and should be assigned a hand of purity (reduces damage and dot damage), dispels on Horridon is always useful, Hand of Protection on tanks (or to clear bleed effects on raid) is also a great use.
    Sadly (at least in a 25man raid) you'll most likely have 2 holy paladins and if you're lucky a prot paladin. By the time you have 3 paladins in a raid the necessity to bring rets to raid for the utility diminishes, ofc they're still useful but they're not key to the success of the raid.

    First of all you're in the raid as a dps but you have a good set of utility that you should offer your raid to use, my raid use 2 holy and 2 ret paladins most of the time so us rets don't get to use a lot of our utility simply because our 2 holy paladins (and other healers) have enough of their own cds to go around. That doesn't mean you should ignore them, if you see a raid member on 20% health right before a big raid aoe LoH them. Someone in your raid has a dot on them? put Hand of Sacrifice on them, your raid prob won't notice them until you stop using them. My biggest "issue" when watching other rets is when they don't know or don't want to use their tools, fine we're dps but it's silly not to play to your class/specs strengths regardless of role... what if disc priests didn't atonement heal/dps when there was room for it? what if tanks didn't care about their dps? you do your best with what you got, that includes our support/utility tools.
    Start with getting your dps acceptable and then start raidwatching, if you got healing experience it'll come more naturally in my experience.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-17 at 09:39 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Krekko View Post
    Nothing is better than saving your group from a wipe, or pushing forward in progression because of an well timed/well used utility spell.

    Lay On Hands saving the day is such a great feeling.
    Couldn't agree more, remember when my guild progressed Feng on 25hc and the burst damage was really high, I saved so many people with selfless healer and I genuinely felt pride in how I did.
    9thorder.com | Recruiting exceptional players!

  14. #2854
    Legendary! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    I was wondering... without vengeance... could a prot paladin outdps a ret? If I go with most of my ret gear and just equip a shield and 1h I got close to 16k haste...
    9thorder.com | Recruiting exceptional players!

  15. #2855
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    I was wondering... without vengeance... could a prot paladin outdps a ret? If I go with most of my ret gear and just equip a shield and 1h I got close to 16k haste...
    not gonna happen.

  16. #2856
    So, I seen a little discussion on what the rotation should be during AW with 4pc T15. No conclusion on what yields more dps?
    --HoW is obviously used very other global.
    --CS to try to get a buffed TV? Once we get the proc Exo?
    --Exo to keep the buff up and then TV to try for the proc?

    Kind of curious what to do during this period.

    Also, has Divine Purpose been doing better since the 4pc T15? I have a guildie that seems to be doing fairly well and only uses it.


    P.S. Any other advice would be appreciated.
    Armory

  17. #2857
    Legendary! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    Got a few interesting numbers coming up, brace yourselves. This might change up shit.

    us battle.net link: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...age=1#new-post
    Says specific that it's for those "weird" trinkets like rune of re-origination but it should impact other trinkets as well?

    So with the data on that thread, a guildy came up with Primordius' Talisman of Rage getting 19.something% chance to proc. Spark 60%, anyone wanna take a quick simc and see how much potential they can have compared to live?
    Primordius’ Talisman of Rage – 3.00 RealPPM on landing harmful abilities and spells, and melee/ranged abilities and swings. No ICD.
    Last edited by Huntingbear_grimbatol; 2013-05-17 at 11:43 PM.
    9thorder.com | Recruiting exceptional players!

  18. #2858
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanyn View Post
    So, I seen a little discussion on what the rotation should be during AW with 4pc T15. No conclusion on what yields more dps?
    --HoW is obviously used very other global.
    --CS to try to get a buffed TV? Once we get the proc Exo?
    --Exo to keep the buff up and then TV to try for the proc?

    Kind of curious what to do during this period.

    Also, has Divine Purpose been doing better since the 4pc T15? I have a guildie that seems to be doing fairly well and only uses it.


    P.S. Any other advice would be appreciated.
    Armory
    As it has been said before, it's a risk. If you think RNG will play in your favor, the CS rotation will result in more dps if you get procs, otherwise you're SoL. Exo is more consistant if you don't think you'll get many procs. As for DP, it's a playstyle. I have a guildie who does OK with it on SOME fights, but it's not that good. He mostly uses it for cleave fights that are on farm just for fun.

  19. #2859
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    Got a few interesting numbers coming up, brace yourselves. This might change up shit.

    us battle.net link: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...age=1#new-post
    Says specific that it's for those "weird" trinkets like rune of re-origination but it should impact other trinkets as well?

    So with the data on that thread, a guildy came up with Primordius' Talisman of Rage getting 19.something% chance to proc. Spark 60%, anyone wanna take a quick simc and see how much potential they can have compared to live?
    Primordius’ Talisman of Rage – 3.00 RealPPM on landing harmful abilities and spells, and melee/ranged abilities and swings. No ICD.
    I was considering upgrading my Heroic TF Spark but wasn't sure about the PPM stuff. This would be pretty cool if it did get that much better.

  20. #2860
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    Says specific that it's for those "weird" trinkets like rune of re-origination but it should impact other trinkets as well?

    So with the data on that thread, a guildy came up with Primordius' Talisman of Rage getting 19.something% chance to proc. Spark 60%, anyone wanna take a quick simc and see how much potential they can have compared to live?
    Primordius’ Talisman of Rage – 3.00 RealPPM on landing harmful abilities and spells, and melee/ranged abilities and swings. No ICD.
    Except talisman will get bonus crit and str on proc but not increased chance to proc unlike RoR (bonus agi and higher proc chance) otherwise talisman/spark/feather would become TOO good.

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