1. #3401
    Quote Originally Posted by Dmchomerun View Post
    I just looked again and I got WSpeed and WDPS mixed up on my weights, BUT, considering how different the speeds are, you're looking at something like 55 DPS.

    I did a sim for someone a handful of pages back, and without the secondary stats added in to either weapon, the 516 had a raid finder weapon beat by about 5k DPS.

    Edit: Page 149 is the post where I did that.
    Good to know, thanks. Guess I just thought weapons speed was a big deal but I never actually tested it cause weapons were normalized this exp.

  2. #3402
    The Patient Dmchomerun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aceshigh View Post
    Good to know, thanks. Guess I just thought weapons speed was a big deal but I never actually tested it cause weapons were normalized this exp.
    It is a big deal, just not with the weapons in this instance having the large WDPS discrepancy. If anyone isn't sure, the best thing is just to calculate it yourself.
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  3. #3403
    Quote Originally Posted by Dmchomerun View Post
    It is a big deal, just not with the weapons in this instance having the large WDPS discrepancy. If anyone isn't sure, the best thing is just to calculate it yourself.
    Yeah I know its a big deal but any weapons that actually matter this exp have been normalized so I haven't tested anything out for the whole exp. Those 516 are nice for alts and shit but my 2 main melee had 522's before those were even available.

  4. #3404
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    hunting, you cant just consider one factor without the other, you can say we "lost" 33% of a tv by using ds, but here is the thing. DP and the 4 set both have a 25% chance to proc, so we can assume, that 1-4 of your DSs, and TVs, will get you either DP or the 4 set to proc, or maybe both. because of this. you can almost count it as HP generation as well, just a more random generation. after 4 dSs, you get either a dp proc, a 4 set proc, or both. this means your getting 25% of a TV out of using DS as a "generator" by fishing out procs. considering DS hits MUCH harder than CS judge, AND exo on the ptr with the 50% change, it is much better to use said procs than just go with a normal rotation and forgetting about them. your not losing anything, your just shifting around damage.

    this is all rough math though, but it should be fairly correct on how our mechanics work and what have you.

    oh, and with the bug fix with DP/4set and the 4 set buffed our cleave/ AOE is REDICULOUS on the ptr, i was able to pull like 300k+ dps on 4 targets without very good procs. i dare to see what i would be like on megeara adds or lei shen balls spamming DS non-stop with that 4 piece.

  5. #3405
    Quote Originally Posted by Reghame View Post
    hunting, you cant just consider one factor without the other, you can say we "lost" 33% of a tv by using ds, but here is the thing. DP and the 4 set both have a 25% chance to proc, so we can assume, that 1-4 of your DSs, and TVs, will get you either DP or the 4 set to proc, or maybe both. because of this. you can almost count it as HP generation as well, just a more random generation. after 4 dSs, you get either a dp proc, a 4 set proc, or both. this means your getting 25% of a TV out of using DS as a "generator" by fishing out procs. considering DS hits MUCH harder than CS judge, AND exo on the ptr with the 50% change, it is much better to use said procs than just go with a normal rotation and forgetting about them. your not losing anything, your just shifting around damage.

    this is all rough math though, but it should be fairly correct on how our mechanics work and what have you.

    oh, and with the bug fix with DP/4set and the 4 set buffed our cleave/ AOE is REDICULOUS on the ptr, i was able to pull like 300k+ dps on 4 targets without very good procs. i dare to see what i would be like on megeara adds or lei shen balls spamming DS non-stop with that 4 piece.
    If and I mean IF. the majority of our attacks will consist of DS and TVS via DP and the 4 set proccing off eachother we may have a good bonus here. Still wouldn't hurt to make it 70% additonal damage instead of 50% imo. Cuz like I said on non AoE fights u would prolly be better off keeping your old tier on. That is not good design.

  6. #3406
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    If and I mean IF. the majority of our attacks will consist of DS and TVS via DP and the 4 set proccing off eachother we may have a good bonus here. Still wouldn't hurt to make it 70% additonal damage instead of 50% imo. Cuz like I said on non AoE fights u would prolly be better off keeping your old tier on. That is not good design.
    also depends a lot on the actual encounters and such. Honestly, buffing 2-set would probably solve the T15 4-set problem.

    off-topic: I need to find a new 25-man guild 'cause mine isn't raiding anymore.

  7. #3407
    The Patient Dmchomerun's Avatar
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    When people prefer the 4-set from the previous tier over the new 4-set doesn't Blizzard basically nerf the previous 4-set into some shit %dmg increase to a couple abilities?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    off-topic: I need to find a new 25-man guild 'cause mine isn't raiding anymore.
    Ouch. Sorry to hear that.
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  8. #3408
    Quote Originally Posted by Dmchomerun View Post
    When people prefer the 4-set from the previous tier over the new 4-set doesn't Blizzard basically nerf the previous 4-set into some shit %dmg increase to a couple abilities?
    After baking it into the spec already, yeah that's what they usually do with ret.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dmchomerun View Post
    Ouch. Sorry to hear that.
    yeah it sucks, guild master/raid leader has health problems and no one's stepping up to really take over so maybe I'll get into Duality or something.

  9. #3409
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    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    If and I mean IF. the majority of our attacks will consist of DS and TVS via DP and the 4 set proccing off each other we may have a good bonus here. Still wouldn't hurt to make it 70% additional damage instead of 50% imo. Cuz like I said on non AoE fights u would prolly be better off keeping your old tier on. That is not good design.
    yea, i would possibly see them baking at least 50% of the current 4 peice to say maybe have TV do half holy and physical. as for the 4 set i can assure you i was basically using finishes almost all the time and on some tests would do pure finishes for 2 minutes straight to get wings back up, lol.

    like i said though, because its a AOE based tier set, to have it do loads of damage single target would make it PURE op for aoe, so the best thing they could so is maybe bake the old tier set in, but as of now, for single target we would be using t16, it just wont be as big as a boost as the last tier set cause holy TVs were kinda on the side of being too strong for a tier set.

    then again you never know, we could be like we were at the end of wrath and be really strong out of no where. i wouldn't mind long as it didn't follow by nerfs the next expansion to make us 100% nonviable in dps like in cata t11 >.<

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-22 at 03:34 PM ----------

    thought of an idea for our 4 set if it becomes too much of an issue for them to balance ds, they could have it to where guardian would copy all of your abilities used for 70% of their effectiveness or something. i kinda always wanted that lil guy to do more then melee attack anyways, looks like me back at level 30 when i though using a 1.3 speed one hander with crusader was good damage cause i attacked really fast :P
    Last edited by Reghame; 2013-06-22 at 07:27 PM.

  10. #3410
    i'd rather they not touch guardian. They would likely break his damage. Though him Replcating all your attacks would be a pretty interesting bonus.

    Also FINAL Legendary item is an ENHANCE version of your 608 cloak. How to get? COLLECT 50 Timeless coins on the Timeless isle through either killing the 5 new world bosses OR finding hidden treasure chests / quests/ weekly/ Mob killing / Maybe rare killing. SOUNDS FUN DONT IT. I bet you get coins for winning the Pet tournaments since that is a huge feature of the Timeless isle. 2nd step is to kill the 4 Celestials aka 4 of the new world bosses. Pretty simple.

    Pretty awful too.

    http://ptr.wowdb.com/quests/33098-se...-timeless-isle

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...le-Exploration

    VERY LIKELY. THE PROC EFFECT. Get ready boys this is a game changer. 0% Obv placeholder.
    Item - Attacks Proc Amplification 15%CoH
    Your attacks have a chance to grant Amplification, increasing your Critical Strike damage, Haste, and Mastery by 0% for until cancelled.


    Ladies and gentlemen. Here we have something somewhat HORRIBLE. yes HORRIBLE for ret that can hurt us next tier. #1 Haste above 50% = Useless random haste procs for ret are also somewhat undesired. #2 We do not crit alot. #3 Mastery damage is about the only benefit we get. We MIGHT be in trouble scaling wise. If we are forced into this we likely will be having to HARD stop well before 50% haste to get a benefit from this proc. In additon while going into mastery to bump damage. This MAY help us if the attack can proc off EACH AoE hit. Scaling wise our DS set might help us.

    Again this cloak is a fucking GAME CHANGER.

    Now for the BAD NEWS.
    http://ptr.wowdb.com/spells/146046-amplified

    There is a chance it MIGHT only proc one of the ratings randomly. or what I fear. Procs off your HIGHEST rating.

    One thing we do learn from the crit spell though. The duration on this thing is 30 seconds.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-06-23 at 05:02 AM.

  11. #3411
    There's no way it's randomly or highest priority. It has to be all together, otherwise it's crap.

  12. #3412
    ... increasing your Critical Strike damage, Haste, and Mastery by 0% ...
    Given the usage of 'and,' one can infer that they will be up simultaneously. Hopefully that is how it will function. However, legendary cloak is lame in my opinion.

  13. #3413
    Legendary! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    Guessing it'll work like the wep enchant, x stats at random without icd
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  14. #3414
    i expected something much better for final patch legendary that had something to do with weapon (leg wepaon, upgrade on wep , whatever). If this is all its really disapointing...

  15. #3415
    This really isn't that bad, actually. far superior to any legendary weapon proc we could have received that remained within reasonable game balance.

    It's worded interestingly too, critical strike damage? crit damage modifier a la skullbanner? don't think i've ever heard of a crit chance increase refered to as 'damage'. then again i've never paid much attention to shit stats. Having it proc from our highest rating might be quite a boon aswell, althought that's redundant since we've yet to see finalized stat budgets on t16 gear. since it appears the cap to the proc is 15% to any given stat, it would be viable (already is) to stop stacking haste at the ~35.5% haste level. and start full strength/expertise + mastery gemming. depending on its proc frequency, this could probably be the most powerful 'legendary' we've ever had.

  16. #3416
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    before we go all doom n gloom once more, id like to point out that it specifically says that there will be ANOTHER REWARD from the golden lotus after killing garrosh, you get the cloak by getting the 50 coins and killing the celestials. it is still very possible that we will still get the chance at a legendary weapon. also, i find crit in large sums to be very useful. considering we already get close to 30% ish in BIS gear with inquisitions base 10%, having another large boost could be interesting for our burst. and depending on the cloak's true uptime we may end up shifting some stats out of haste. but this is all speculation so far.
    (dunno what our crit chance really is, i just know mine is pretty damn close to 30% with all raid buffs being 540ilevel and all)

  17. #3417
    Quote Originally Posted by Reghame View Post
    before we go all doom n gloom once more, id like to point out that it specifically says that there will be ANOTHER REWARD from the golden lotus after killing garrosh, you get the cloak by getting the 50 coins and killing the celestials. it is still very possible that we will still get the chance at a legendary weapon.
    I'm thinking this too. Blizzard knows people would complain if the final legendary reward is a cloak. I still think we'll get weapon.

  18. #3418
    High Overlord Jaling's Avatar
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    Do you guys seal swap to SoJ after getting censure up on your target, and then swap back to reapply it?
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  19. #3419
    Legendary! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    The cloak is the final reward from Wrathion, Golden Lotus will most likely give you a heavy grind quest with a sizable bag of gold with some sort of event at the end that'll give you a weapon of sorts. Was confirmed by a blue post ages ago that they had plans for a legendary weapon.

    The Golden Lotus reward is probablly going to be relativly unobtainable for non raiders (that includes LFR and "easy mode") or at least I hope so.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-23 at 11:32 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaling View Post
    Do you guys seal swap to SoJ after getting censure up on your target, and then swap back to reapply it?
    depends on the situation, buffs, debuffs, how many targets, which spells you have that are on cd (Execution Sentence mainly) and so on.
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  20. #3420
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    usually you should not seal swap to SoJ, its gain is relatively low if any and you run a high risk of running out of mana considering the mana costs on seals is close to what 12000 or so? only time seal swapping is preferable in PVE is if your gona be AOeing down a lot of mobs at once like lei shen balls or megaera adds.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-23 at 08:27 PM ----------

    oh also, hunting, as far as im aware, they have stated NO WHERE that the cloak is your final reward, nor have they stated what the final reward WILL be or how it will be completed. just that there will be ANOTHER part after garrosh with the golden lotus that WILL grant a legendary. considering their past motive on making the game more fun for your average player base i would assume everyone will be able to attain that final piece, making it only for raiders and HC raiders would be a just a faulty move and something they have been completely against since they launched wrath until now.
    at the end of the day i do not think they would simply do something so foolish as to say a cape is legendary enough for everyone, until then, we just need to wait and see.

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