1. #3481
    Quote Originally Posted by Temperance Brennan View Post
    I have yet to see a single trinket intended for STR DPS only which hasn't been designed with warriors in mind.

    thing is, even warriors wouldn't really aim for it, since they currently have so much crit already.

    however, there's no secondary stat which would be beneficial to every DPS.
    Mastery is the best all-around choice, but they're trying to stay away from that because tanks would want it, so.. yeah, design flaw is flawed.

  2. #3482
    At exactly 50% haste, you can hit CS every other ability, and it GCD caps you, so yes mastery shoots up in value. It's somewhat debated that even now we have too much haste. Solsacra has been rocking a 30% haste, max mastery build and he seems to like it. Parsing fairly well too. The number 35% haste has been thrown out there too for a max mastery build.

  3. #3483
    The Patient Ichorum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revvo View Post
    At exactly 50% haste, you can hit CS every other ability, and it GCD caps you, so yes mastery shoots up in value. It's somewhat debated that even now we have too much haste. Solsacra has been rocking a 30% haste, max mastery build and he seems to like it. Parsing fairly well too. The number 35% haste has been thrown out there too for a max mastery build.
    Alrighty, that's what I figured. I still have a long way to go for 50% haste, so I may try out the numbers whenever I get the chance. Thanks for the help.


  4. #3484
    Quote Originally Posted by Revvo View Post
    At exactly 50% haste, you can hit CS every other ability, and it GCD caps you, so yes mastery shoots up in value. It's somewhat debated that even now we have too much haste. Solsacra has been rocking a 30% haste, max mastery build and he seems to like it. Parsing fairly well too. The number 35% haste has been thrown out there too for a max mastery build.
    You got your numbers wrong. Rotation doesn't change at all at 50% haste.

  5. #3485
    Quote Originally Posted by Revvo View Post
    Not to mention Bo-Ris is BiS for blood. But whatever.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kinmaul View Post
    A smart guild upgrades their tanks first for progression because dps doesn't mean jack if the tank keeps falling over. Upgrading the tank also has the side-effect of improving healer mana because a better geared tank is easier to heal. You are being a crybaby about loot and it's embarrassing that you would post about this in a theorycraft/bis thread. You are putting yourself ahead of the guild and there's no way you can spin this where you don't look like a loot whore.
    My post was based on the fact that he said "he is using it for DPS" which lead me to believe that he was retarded and using something else for tank.

  6. #3486
    Next tier being forced into DP which already fills empty gcds with the 4 set ontop of the cloak proc haste is going to lose alot of momentum. Likely be hard stopping around 30%-35%.

  7. #3487
    Quote Originally Posted by thegoodrogue View Post
    The spells listed for the Equip (Trinket) for ret was BoP, Div Prot, GotAK, AW, Divine Shield, and Aura Mastery.

    http://ptr.wowdb.com/spells/145978-readiness

    Upvote me plz
    Edited since it actually is the trinket (despite being very overpowered) o_O

    Wondering what the weapons are/do.

  8. #3488
    Quote Originally Posted by thegoodrogue View Post
    Edited since it actually is the trinket (despite being very overpowered) o_O

    Wondering what the weapons are/do.
    Okay so the CD reduction trinket is a pretty huge game changer. You can assum the HTF UPGRADED version will be insane to say the least. 39% ON THE NORMAL FUCKING VERSION. HTF + Upgraded that would nearly be 45%-50% reduction. Considering that means 50% uptime on wings. There is no fucking way in hell DP can be mandatory. When you are giving up roughly spamming hammers and templars. Mix this with the Hard crit damage , haste, mastery 14%. Prolly almost 20% in its HTF form. we are looking strom. It's kinda sad tho we MORE THEN EVER. Need a new fucking set bonus. WIth that uptime on wings we WOULD be skipping Divine Storm procs. You may even get further along keepering the current 4 set because. Now this is important. If you CANNOT use DP the 4 set sucks dick. This trinket makes SW wings mandatory. Period.

    It's a huge increase to ret dps. and let's be honest. a 1.5 min Devo is just gravy. Pretty sure with unbreakable spirit we will have what? 15 second CD dp? 1:30 bubble? Ret can't die

    You can assume for warriors it will be things liike Skull banner, Rally cry, Shatter so it will be a pretty big deal for them and the raid as a whole too.

    Also Amplification aka the CLOAK proc is actually the caster trinket. SO what the new cloaks do /mean is still up in the air as a mystery again + weapon proc mystery.

    Either way if we use the trinket and DP instead of SW. people like solscra reporting spamming TV/DS for over 30 seconds on chain procs. + the 14% passive mastery trinket. It's pretty obvious wether we take DP or SW that hand of light dps is going to be well into the 30% dps range up from the current 20%. IF not higher. likely higher depending on itemization / freed up stats from having passive haste % trinkets.

    The thing is though. Unless more then 2 fights are cleave fights you are going to want SW because as I said wings every MINUTE or every 1:20 is RETARDED OP. We likely WILL hit 50% haste with these trinkets and 60%-70% mastery if not more. That along with critical mods essentially mean we will be far better off scaling wise getting massive templars verdicts and turning 50% of OUR ENTIRE DPS ROTATION into Hammer,CS,Hammer,TV,Hammer,Cs,Hammer,TV. Pretty hard to fuck that up and EVERY SINGLE ATTACK does mastery damage.

    Infact at 70% mastery <pretty likely we will see it>. Your Hand of light HITS FOR MORE then the base hit. So assuming 50% wings uptime we may infact be looking at nearly 45-50% hand of light damage up from 20-23% now.

    On ji'kun this week I was getting 1.3 MILLION TV crits and only like 300K DS crits. that is a pretty big deal when you consider #1 Seal procs off only TV not DS and #2 HoL scaling.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-06-28 at 01:07 AM.

  9. #3489
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Next tier being forced into DP which already fills empty gcds with the 4 set ontop of the cloak proc haste is going to lose alot of momentum. Likely be hard stopping around 30%-35%.
    Haste will probably be around as good as crit is, which it's not THAT far behind mastery, at least for me.

    That cooldown reduction trinket is amazing... definitely nerfed in instanced pvp.

  10. #3490
    Fluffy Kitten Zoma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Okay so the CD reduction trinket is a pretty huge game changer. You can assum the HTF UPGRADED version will be insane to say the least. 39% ON THE NORMAL FUCKING VERSION. HTF + Upgraded that would nearly be 45%-50% reduction. Considering that means 50% uptime on wings. There is no fucking way in hell DP can be mandatory. When you are giving up roughly spamming hammers and templars. Mix this with the Hard crit damage , haste, mastery 14%. Prolly almost 20% in its HTF form. we are looking strom. It's kinda sad tho we MORE THEN EVER. Need a new fucking set bonus. WIth that uptime on wings we WOULD be skipping Divine Storm procs. You may even get further along keepering the current 4 set because. Now this is important. If you CANNOT use DP the 4 set sucks dick. This trinket makes SW wings mandatory. Period.
    Would upgrading or LFR/Flex/N/H effect the recovery rate? I assumed that part would stay the same, and it would only be the strength proc on the trinket that would be effected.

  11. #3491
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Okay so the CD reduction trinket is a pretty huge game changer. You can assum the HTF UPGRADED version will be insane to say the least. 39% ON THE NORMAL FUCKING VERSION. HTF + Upgraded that would nearly be 45%-50% reduction. Considering that means 50% uptime on wings. There is no fucking way in hell DP can be mandatory. When you are giving up roughly spamming hammers and templars. Mix this with the Hard crit damage , haste, mastery 14%. Prolly almost 20% in its HTF form. we are looking strom. It's kinda sad tho we MORE THEN EVER. Need a new fucking set bonus. WIth that uptime on wings we WOULD be skipping Divine Storm procs. You may even get further along keepering the current 4 set because. Now this is important. If you CANNOT use DP the 4 set sucks dick. This trinket makes SW wings mandatory. Period.
    Yeah unfortunately that set bonus needs even more of a buff or just an outright change completely, because as it stands, we would still use T15 4-set for single target fights or fights where two targets are in your melee range at most.

  12. #3492
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Okay so the CD reduction trinket is a pretty huge game changer. You can assum the HTF UPGRADED version will be insane to say the least. 39% ON THE NORMAL FUCKING VERSION. HTF + Upgraded that would nearly be 45%-50% reduction. Considering that means 50% uptime on wings. There is no fucking way in hell DP can be mandatory. When you are giving up roughly spamming hammers and templars. Mix this with the Hard crit damage , haste, mastery 14%. Prolly almost 20% in its HTF form. we are looking strom. It's kinda sad tho we MORE THEN EVER. Need a new fucking set bonus. WIth that uptime on wings we WOULD be skipping Divine Storm procs. You may even get further along keepering the current 4 set because. Now this is important. If you CANNOT use DP the 4 set sucks dick. This trinket makes SW wings mandatory. Period.
    i'm not sold on the CD reduction trinket. it would need to be much closer to 50% at the normal mode level to surpass DP, thats without even assuming that the proc associated with it doesn't share a proc ID with the crit/haste/mastery trinket, which currently it does. so no double dipping. something tells me we wont be able to equip those two trinkets together.

    Given that. attack power is getting stomped by sheer weapon damage scaling, HoW spam wont be able to keep up at 560 ilvls. could be wrong, of course. its still only the second build of 5.4.

    Also: Flurry of Xuen

    Your damaging attacks have a chance to trigger a Flurry of Xuen, causing you to deal 60% weapon damage to all targets in front of you, every 0.5 sec for 3 sec. Seems to be the legendary cloak melee proc.
    Last edited by Solsacra; 2013-06-28 at 01:19 AM.

  13. #3493
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    Haste will probably be around as good as crit is, which it's not THAT far behind mastery, at least for me.

    That cooldown reduction trinket is amazing... definitely nerfed in instanced pvp.
    posted that before i saw trinkets. DP is nearly impossible with the cd reduction trinket.

  14. #3494
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoma View Post
    Would upgrading or LFR/Flex/N/H effect the recovery rate? I assumed that part would stay the same, and it would only be the strength proc on the trinket that would be effected.
    Well supposedly it is only 17% on the normal, which makes a LOT more sense than 40%. 40% with Unbreakable Spirit and 40% off some of healers biggest cooldowns (see tranq/revival) would be undoubtedly game-breaking.

    H TF upgraded (>IF<) would be like 20% I imagine, still a sizeable chunk and first CDR trinket that's been useful.

    These could be Golden Lotus rewards, who knows and only upgradeable to 18-19 maybe.

  15. #3495
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    how retardedly broken is this cd reducing trinket going to be?
    1,5min cd devo.
    1,5m cd bubble.
    15sec cd divine protection?
    1min cd wings/holy avenger. (Imagine 1min cd holy avenger with 4set on aoe fights, just holy shit)
    if it halves the CD on our ES/LH/Prism then that's going to open up a lot of potential as well.

    I'm guessing with theese trinkets we'll most likely want 3 trinkets next tier, this cd reducing one as mandetory and changing the other around depending on the fight.
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  16. #3496

  17. #3497
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    how retardedly broken is this cd reducing trinket going to be?
    1,5min cd devo.
    1,5m cd bubble.
    15sec cd divine protection?
    1min cd wings/holy avenger. (Imagine 1min cd holy avenger with 4set on aoe fights, just holy shit)
    if it halves the CD on our ES/LH/Prism then that's going to open up a lot of potential as well.

    I'm guessing with theese trinkets we'll most likely want 3 trinkets next tier, this cd reducing one as mandetory and changing the other around depending on the fight.
    It's BoP which doesn't matter a whole lot unless we need Clemency spam on multiple fights

    Devo, DP, and DS which are pretty good on their own. and then GUARDIAN and WINGS which alone is pretty huge. has anyone checked ptr IS he doing the same damage relative to live?

    But yes 100% positive NOT going for hammer spam would be stupid. It's huge and consistent damage. DP is always going to be a gamble. But the fact we can push for mastery focus or even mastery GEMMING and our entire rotation since it's unlikely we will lsoe the ds bonus. The entire rotation is going to consist of mastery proccaable attacks. Hammer spam, TV's, DS procs, and Crusader strikes. The is no way in hell ANY ability is going to compare since Exo doesn't scale with sword of light. Weapon damage will likely end well into mid 40ks ON the weapon and if we apt for mastery > all nothing else will beable to compare. Currently we will be stopping at 35% haste or 30% depending on where the Flat % rating trinkets end at. We still have weapon procs, cloak to consider since these trinket alone are gamebreaking I can't wait to see what else they have planned. Guess they found a way to make us drop Feather asap afterall. Go figure.

    The ONLY thing I'm concerned about is how large a dps drop 4 set while PUSHING mastery stats is going to be when we simple opt for using CS,TV,and HoW. T15 seems irreplaceable unless we get like haste/ mastery / good retarded op sockets on EVERY single piece of tier.

    We however are losing ALOT of strength stacking during cooldowns with these new trinket mechanics.

    We would need atleast 8 DP procs PER minute if these new trinkets scale the way I assume they will. I don't see that happening consistently.

    Then again the 5% damage 2 set is easier to maintain since it ... just happens. as opposed needing to hit exocism to debuff and forgoing a CS holy TV proc chance during your fillers during AW.

    I don't think we can make any definite deicisons until we see weapons / if a legendary weapon is avail/ what cloaks do/ what the weapon procs do. Everything is just so..... I don't know. Blizzard keeps topping themselves this expansion on trinkets we assume are irraplaceable and I don't think anyone expected anything this gamebreaking to show up.

    Assuming the cloak was correct and it's a % to the 3 stats proc. we are looking at some SERIOUS critical damage mods between the trinket and Cloak. Do you have any idea what a 40% critical mod Crit TV would do converted into holy damage while stacking mastery. I'd say a 2 million combined crit is highly possible.

    Can people post their testing findings with how well 4 set T16 and DP interact with eachother? Maybe most of our damage going out being equivalent to TVs will infact make up for losing TV double damage + on the same GCD.

    Keep in mind the tier FORCES us into dropping Holy TVs and from the looks of it. Hammer spam.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-28 at 04:50 AM ----------

    Ahem...

    Can someone tell me what THIS string means?

    LEGENDARY_54_CLOAK_VALIDATION - You must be in possession of a Celestial Cloak of Virtue to use this item.
    Either it's the item to MAKE it legendary or it's something you can't USE until you have a legendary cloak.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-28 at 04:56 AM ----------

    Flurry of Xuen - Your damaging attacks have a chance to trigger a Flurry of Xuen, causing you to deal 60% weapon damage to all targets in front of you, every 0.5 sec for 3 sec.

    This is apparently the cloak proc. Going to assume this + 2 set means capping to 50% haste with the trinket is going to be mandatory. 5% damage proc, GCD reduction, RPPM, and Flurry.

    Oh my god.... if flurry can proc off each target hit by DS.... that is a free 360% weapon damage cleave over 3 seconds.... /Spurt all over monitor.

    Pretty sure that is a confirmation. Insanely massive add tier and insanely massive add Garrosh encounter incoming.

    More importantly.... are these "flurry procs" going to be like abomb jar hits and proc Seal of Truth? Lets hope so
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-06-28 at 05:01 AM.

  18. #3498
    Grats on listening to what i've been telling you :P

    This tier has no place for sanctified wrath what so ever. it just won't work. blizzard wanted us to break out of the SW mould and try something new, they've accomplished just that, which also means the CD reduction trinket is trash in contrast to the mastery/haste/crit trinket with DP. i don't think its sole intention was to boost dps, but rather add some utility mules to a raid group.

    As you seem to want to know, yes, a DS proc from the four piece is equivalent to a TV mitigated by armor, mastery included. a solid 10 second string of DP/four piece proc is quite common aswell, and serves to dramatically increase mastery's value.

    Although i do hate speculating on these trinkets this early, TF Feather could still be quite useful. thats assuming you cant use both of the aforementioned trinkets, which i don't believe we'll be able too.

    might aswell add that GoaK's damage was/is untouched for the time being.
    Last edited by Solsacra; 2013-06-28 at 05:15 AM.

  19. #3499
    Quote Originally Posted by Solsacra View Post
    Grats on listening to what i've been telling you :P

    This tier has no place for sanctified wrath what so ever. it just won't work. blizzard wanted us to break out of the SW mould and try something new, they've accomplished just that, which also means the CD reduction trinket is trash in contrast to the mastery/haste/crit trinket with DP. i don't think its sole intention was to boost dps, but rather add some utility mules to a raid group.

    As you seem to want to know, yes, a DS proc from the four piece is equivalent to a TV mitigated by armor, mastery included. a solid 10 second string of DP/four piece proc is quite common aswell, and serves to dramatically increase mastery's value.

    Although i do hate speculating on these trinkets this early, TF Feather could still be quite useful. thats assuming you cant use both of the aforementioned trinkets, which i don't believe we'll be able too.

    might aswell add that GoaK's damage was/is untouched for the time being.
    Well the trinket is a pretty big deal if guardian does the same damage since he will be used every 1:30 on average. Wings uptime. The wings uptime was a big deal DP was a pretty cut and dry choice until the reveal that we may be looking at a 1 min wings CD. That changes EVERYTHING

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-28 at 05:38 AM ----------

    Heroic Thunderforged Tier is confirmed. So I guess like DS vs holy TV or not 581 HTF 2/2 tier is going to MAKE us go for the new bonus.

    Not sure just how WELL weapons scale since Ilvl can cause larger and larger gains per 1Ilvl the higher it goes but I think 42,000 581 ilvl weapon is a pretty likely scenario. Which with SoL would be a 13-14,000 weapon damage gain. Perhaps DP will push ahead from SW on a pure scaling standpoint because of raw weapon damage jumps.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-06-28 at 05:44 AM.

  20. #3500
    Not necessarily, what makes that combo so strong now is that we are currently able to line up massive strength procs rather predictably with SW. of course we can't do this next tier, these massive AP boosting trinkets just arn't there. HoW's damage as a whole won't change. However, we will gain close to ~10k weapon damage quite quickly, obviously HoW gains no coefficient from weapon damage so, again, no gain.

    Naturally this leads me to the conclusion that a weapon damage oriented setup is the way to go. mechanically with how the current iteration of the four piece functions with DP it really doesn't suffer from RNG, literally every other cast benefits from the stat trinket, whereas the benefits from the CD reduction trinket are not immediatly apparent, sure you gain increased access to CD's but that doesnt mean shit if you have no sustained dps.

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