1. #4201
    Legendary! anaxie's Avatar
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    Talking alot with Solsacra it's pretty likely we will go full mastery in which case we are looking at 38% haste and 90% mastery VS 48% haste and 75% mastery because of being GCD locked and it streamlines it for add encounters where it would win anyhow.

  2. #4202
    What % of haste should we switch to Mastery? 35% and above? Should we be using Exp/Mast gems in Reds instead of Exp/Haste then? Does it make sense to go full mastery after acquiring T16 4-set even with normal mode gear?
    Last edited by Joeseidon; 2013-08-18 at 10:53 AM.

  3. #4203
    Legendary! anaxie's Avatar
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    its not 4T15 and T16 set push mastery to this value. Solsa has done more then enough rank 1s on every boss people care about with full mastery and I've done the same with haste on everything including things like horridon where mastery should blow it out of the water.

    Right now on live with a 541+ weapon and feather you could prolly swap now to mastery and see similar damage. Expertise/haste/mastery gems are pretty viable now actually I just havn't messed with it yet.

  4. #4204
    pretty sure youre going to see more of a swing in damage getting shitty trinket procs v good ones. its too hard to compare haste v mastery on live atm, especially with rppm having changes incoming.

    but as i said before, haste is definitely going to get shit on by mastery in short order once we start ramping up in weapon damage while keeping enough haste to fill all our gcds.

  5. #4205
    Legendary! anaxie's Avatar
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    but its not about filling them I've filled them since T14 its about the speed you are using them. aka the GCD. If Haste didn't reduce gcd it would be our worst stat after prolly 25%
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-08-18 at 05:49 PM.

  6. #4206
    With us favoring Mastery over Haste wouldn't that change our ring BiS from Asgorathian Blood Seal / Seal of the Forgotten Kings to Devilfang Band / Bloodclaw Band? Asgorathian Blood Seal -> Devilfang Band is a straight Haste to Mastery switch as both have Expertise. Same thing with the boots possibly? Wolf-Rider Spurs to Malkorok's Giant Stompers?

    I was just taking a quick look at it. So, I didn't do any #s checking. I was just going off of the Mastery > Haste theory that we're using currently. So, feel free to disregard this if I'm talking out my ass.

  7. #4207
    i meant in terms of having enough haste to reliably get an art of war proc before the next time you have run out of inq/tv/how/cs/j/dp proc/4p proc/tier90 things to hit.

    then again, increasing mastery will only serve to further push exo down the priority list (as if it could get any lower).

  8. #4208
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    its not 4T15 and T16 set push mastery to this value. Solsa has done more then enough rank 1s on every boss people care about with full mastery and I've done the same with haste on everything including things like horridon where mastery should blow it out of the water.

    Right now on live with a 541+ weapon and feather you could prolly swap now to mastery and see similar damage. Expertise/haste/mastery gems are pretty viable now actually I just havn't messed with it yet.
    Careful, those Mastery parses being "Rank 1". You sure it wasn't all those RPPM trinkets compensating? Honestly, you've never shown a lick of math to back up anything you've ever said in this thread. You just pick something that you think is right and then just preach it like it's the next coming of christ.

    You're about as accurate as Fox News is after a global disaster.
    Last edited by Spazzodin; 2013-08-18 at 07:11 PM.
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  9. #4209
    Quote Originally Posted by Spazzodin View Post
    Careful, those Mastery parses being "Rank 1". You sure it wasn't all those RPPM trinkets compensating? Honestly, you've never shown a lick of math to back up anything you've ever said in this thread. You just pick something that you think is right and then just preach it like it's the next coming of christ.

    You're about as accurate as Fox News is after a global disaster.
    I don't see any math from you showing that he's not correct. If you aren't going to add something to the conversation by using math to prove he's right or wrong then why did you even comment? If you think the thread's not accurate, etc why even click on it in the first place? I love hearing different opinions on things because in the end it will make us all better but this type of stuff just makes you a jerk.

    Back on topic: Are there any haste minimums we will need to see? Or is the Haste we get on our gear going to be enough to push us over this? I think if we pushed a more Mastery based gear set it would change a few items on our BiS.

  10. #4210
    Legendary! anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spazzodin View Post
    Careful, those Mastery parses being "Rank 1". You sure it wasn't all those RPPM trinkets compensating? Honestly, you've never shown a lick of math to back up anything you've ever said in this thread. You just pick something that you think is right and then just preach it like it's the next coming of christ.

    You're about as accurate as Fox News is after a global disaster.
    I'm pretty sure Solsacra knows what he is talking about.

  11. #4211
    The aforementioned are just a few ideas i've been throwing around, and they definitely seem to be showing superior results with mastery > haste at around the 37-40% haste mark (talking tier 16, BTW). throw in an extra global in the form of our four piece, and the use of DP which again costs another global you'll quickly find the additional haste that contributes to your HP generating abilities cooldown reduction is becoming quite useless. Sure, you can argue that it helps with the GCD reduction, but the amount of haste you need to achieve such a small gain is wasteful, especially when we could use mastery (or crit) in place of it.

    given that. im not sure if this has been posted elsewhere, or mentioned earlier but i've found this rotation to be the best i could come up with. feels a lot like LK feral, shit is just everywhere.

    Inq>ES(optimal)>TV/DS 5HP>DP(<2sec)>HoW>CS>Judge>Exo>DP>4pc

    as you can see, theres going to be quite a bit of micro-managing with what we have going on, our trinket procs are extremely predictable and often line up well with wings and guardian. so changing the above rotation a bit to squeeze off harder hitting abilities as trinkets/buffs are falling off will become more common and easier to manage.

  12. #4212
    Legendary! anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanyn View Post
    With us favoring Mastery over Haste wouldn't that change our ring BiS from Asgorathian Blood Seal / Seal of the Forgotten Kings to Devilfang Band / Bloodclaw Band? Asgorathian Blood Seal -> Devilfang Band is a straight Haste to Mastery switch as both have Expertise. Same thing with the boots possibly? Wolf-Rider Spurs to Malkorok's Giant Stompers?

    I was just taking a quick look at it. So, I didn't do any #s checking. I was just going off of the Mastery > Haste theory that we're using currently. So, feel free to disregard this if I'm talking out my ass.
    No because then you get loaded with strength which is below ALL stats

  13. #4213
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    It's this attitude that makes you annoying Anaxie. You assume too much. When will you learn rank 1 parses mean absolutely nothing? You keep coming back here tier after tier and proclaim yourself to be the God of Ret Paladins. Why? Because you get a few rank 1 parses?

    It's sad that EJ died because you could go there for information and not have to deal with egos.

  14. #4214
    Quote Originally Posted by Spazzodin View Post
    Curious as to how me saying he hasn't backed anything up with math makes me a jerk. News to me.
    The point. because, you clearly missed it in your ignorance. is that both stats can perform equally well given certain situations, yes, the abominaion of RPPM can make getting exact and accurate numbers difficult, but it doesn't discredit the capabilities of certain stats. rank one parses mean nothing, what matters is what we can do with what we have.

  15. #4215
    Quote Originally Posted by Solsacra View Post
    The point. because, you clearly missed it in your ignorance. is that both stats can perform equally well given certain situations, yes, the abominaion of RPPM can make getting exact and accurate numbers difficult, but it doesn't discredit the capabilities of certain stats. rank one parses mean nothing, what matters is what we can do with what we have.
    You can say I'm ignorant all you want, you can all turn and attack me, but I'm just curious as how you can have a theory-crafting discussion without any links to logs or evidence as even a point of discussion. I never once said "Mastery was wrong", all I asked was to show any form of evidence yet you result to name calling. Stay small.

  16. #4216
    sorry, i must have missed the part where you asked for evidence, i can't find it, care to point where the question was posed? looks to me like you jumped in for the sole intention of trolling.

  17. #4217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solsacra View Post
    sorry, i must have missed the part where you asked for evidence, i can't find it, care to point where the question was posed? looks to me like you jumped in for the sole intention of trolling.
    Where is your evidence?

  18. #4218
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    Thread is open again, no mud slinging and keep the discussion moving forward and civilized please.

    All requests for supplemental information shall be asked in an appropriate manner and you shall treat your fellow posters with respect - Krekko 32:95
    Last edited by Krekko; 2013-08-18 at 07:13 PM.
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  19. #4219
    Legendary! anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charleslol View Post
    It's this attitude that makes you annoying Anaxie. You assume too much. When will you learn rank 1 parses mean absolutely nothing? You keep coming back here tier after tier and proclaim yourself to be the God of Ret Paladins. Why? Because you get a few rank 1 parses?

    It's sad that EJ died because you could go there for information and not have to deal with egos.
    likewise, I find you annoying because all you do is come here and park your whaaambulance

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Spazzodin View Post
    You can say I'm ignorant all you want, you can all turn and attack me, but I'm just curious as how you can have a theory-crafting discussion without any links to logs or evidence as even a point of discussion. I never once said "Mastery was wrong", all I asked was to show any form of evidence yet you result to name calling. Stay small.
    We have our own way of throwing around ideas which suits us you don't enjoy how we do it blacklist the thread cutie

  20. #4220
    Quote Originally Posted by Krekko View Post
    Thread is open again, no mud slinging and keep the discussion moving forward and civilized please.

    All requests for supplemental information shall be asked in an appropriate manner and you shall treat your fellow posters with respect - Krekko 32:95
    I'm curious as to how "Where is your evidence?" is not an appropriate manner. This isn't Kindergarten and I'd like to think that most in this thread are adults.

    But, so be it.

    Anaxie, do you have any World of Logs parses or Simulation Warcraft links to support this discussion of Mastery vs Haste with T16 for the 5.4 PTR? If so, I would love a chance to take a look at them! Thanks.
    Last edited by Spazzodin; 2013-08-18 at 07:17 PM.

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