1. #4441
    this thread doesn't do math. we listen to what ret king anaxie has to say and obey.


    Keep it productive. Think something is wrong? Provide the math yourself and prove it.
    Last edited by Krekko; 2013-09-10 at 05:26 PM.

  2. #4442
    The Patient Kowloon's Avatar
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    Anyone else not stoked on swapping 4 piece T15 for 4 piece T16?

    I feel like the T16 bonus is trash in comparison to T15.
    Even if there's some AOE in a handful of SoO fights it doesn't seem to be worthwhile to use pretty much ever?

    Why the hell would Blizz give us an amazing T15 4-piece to only make T16 crap? So many other classes have excellent 4-piece T16 bonus in comparison to Retribution.

    I feel like it is going to greatly impact our DPS considering that in T15, Retribution has been top tier DPS and moving forward to T16; I feel like Ret is going to be on the backburner again due to a severely weak 4-piece T16 bonus.
    In the company of thieves, liars, beggars and whores
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  3. #4443
    I play 4 classes and are not thrilled about any of the 4-set bonuses. I wonder where your PoV is coming from when you state that Ret DPS will be low because of set bonuses.

  4. #4444
    Quote Originally Posted by Kowloon View Post
    Anyone else not stoked on swapping 4 piece T15 for 4 piece T16?

    I feel like the T16 bonus is trash in comparison to T15.
    Even if there's some AOE in a handful of SoO fights it doesn't seem to be worthwhile to use pretty much ever?

    Why the hell would Blizz give us an amazing T15 4-piece to only make T16 crap? So many other classes have excellent 4-piece T16 bonus in comparison to Retribution.

    I feel like it is going to greatly impact our DPS considering that in T15, Retribution has been top tier DPS and moving forward to T16; I feel like Ret is going to be on the backburner again due to a severely weak 4-piece T16 bonus.
    Have you even tested the 4set during PTR tests?

    I don't get what makes you say this set bonus is bad

  5. #4445
    I am Murloc! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilostmahbucket View Post
    After reading through dozens of the most recent pages I still haven't seen any hard evidence (parses, sims) for the rotations and stat weights or breakpoints these paladins are throwing around in this thread. Feels somewhat misleading.

    Where's the math? Inb4 "bosses aren't like patchwerk"
    Does anyone have PTR parses or sim data they can share that can provide more solid evidence for single target rotation priority and haste/mastery values comparison?

    Last few pages of Elitist Jerk's ret thread have posted some hard numbers if anyone else is looking for better evidence of claims. Pages 50-56. Theck has some math on 4pct16 priority, another poster compares AW to DP w/ t16 4pc. Initially it looks like AW for single target, DP 4pct16 for AOE, mastery for AOE heavy fights - no surprises.

    So my questions then are mostly where does 4pct16 fall in the single target rotation as and how mastery/haste are going to interact as we gear up? From the evidence I've read 4pct16 is above CS (although that's at heroic t16 gear levels), and haste is still winning. 5.4 Ret dps sure feels uncertain at the moment.
    I doubt anyone here is qualified to calculate the random factor of one boss with the random factor of being in range for HotR and the random factor of DP and random factor of T16 4set. If there was anyone that could do that then they wouldn't bother doing it because it's simply not worth the time, Simc is used for statweights, "caps" (haste, crit and whatever) and you can also determine when X stat has lower value than X stat.
    Everyone can do whatever they want, after around 40% unbuffed haste I'm going mastery. With higher ilvl weps it's much, much stronger. Disagree? well you got that right. You can also chose not to believe that man went to the moon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonkura View Post
    this thread doesn't do math. we listen to what ret king anaxie has to say and obey.
    well no, you chose to listen to whoever you want. If you disagree go do your own testing and come to your own conclusion, what's with the fucking hate on the frequent posters...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kowloon View Post
    Anyone else not stoked on swapping 4 piece T15 for 4 piece T16?

    I feel like the T16 bonus is trash in comparison to T15.
    Even if there's some AOE in a handful of SoO fights it doesn't seem to be worthwhile to use pretty much ever?

    Why the hell would Blizz give us an amazing T15 4-piece to only make T16 crap? So many other classes have excellent 4-piece T16 bonus in comparison to Retribution.

    I feel like it is going to greatly impact our DPS considering that in T15, Retribution has been top tier DPS and moving forward to T16; I feel like Ret is going to be on the backburner again due to a severely weak 4-piece T16 bonus.
    T16 4set is situational at best, I doubt I'll swap until I have a full 4set T16 heroic ready.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by etsumii92 View Post
    Have you even tested the 4set during PTR tests?

    I don't get what makes you say this set bonus is bad
    the 4set is great, sometimes. other times it doesn't do anything...
    Mind you that's exactly how T15 4set works, only when T15 4set works it does big single target damage and T16 proc increases aoe by a lot. So if you're not on a aoe fight it doesn't do as much as the T15 4set will do. + CD reducing trinket + SW + T15 4set means you'll throw out so many templars verdicts it's crazy...
    Last edited by Huntingbear_grimbatol; 2013-09-10 at 05:12 PM.
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  6. #4446
    Stood in the Fire Weightlifter's Avatar
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    So what trinkets should I use tomorrow? I have a 543 feather, 530 spark, 530 brutal talisman and 522 primo.

  7. #4447
    Use Feather and Brutal Talisman (Even if the expertise is partially wasted)

  8. #4448
    Not that anyone will probably be using the spark, but my 543 spark is only giving 129 strength when it procs anyway. Not sure if the other I-level ones are screwed up.

  9. #4449
    Spark now stacks really ( REALLY ) fast.
    So it's not too bad.

    but Talisman is up on pull, both are good options and still shit compared with SoO trinkets.

  10. #4450
    So you can exe sentence and still have a fluid rotation, no more slow gcd

    edit: also htf spark is fucking up.
    Last edited by Vaylen; 2013-09-11 at 01:02 AM.
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  11. #4451
    So would 510 upgraded LFR 4 piece be worth keeping over, say 535 timeless isle gear? How about Flex/Normal SoO gear?

  12. #4452
    Weird, in the dungeon journal Hellscream's Decapitator is listed as 8 item levels higher than the rest of the 2 handed weapons, so shouldn't we go for that over Thok's Polearm, even though it has crit, weapon damage would be a lot higher so it'd be more desirable for us, please correct me if i'm wrong.

  13. #4453
    Stood in the Fire Neldarie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mels View Post
    Weird, in the dungeon journal Hellscream's Decapitator is listed as 8 item levels higher than the rest of the 2 handed weapons, so shouldn't we go for that over Thok's Polearm, even though it has crit, weapon damage would be a lot higher so it'd be more desirable for us, please correct me if i'm wrong.
    Thats because its impossible to upgrade heirlooms hence +8lvls makes it the same as any normal drop weapon of the same difficulty which also makes any Warforged "bis".
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  14. #4454
    Is the ICD for our valor trinket 85 seconds or 75? Most of the previous posts mention 75 ICD but the tooltip mentions 85. Last minute change?

  15. #4455
    Was fortunate enough to nab a Warforged Evil Eye of Galakras last night, boy what a difference. I had actually paired it with Prim Trinket and was top DPS on both Iron Jugg & Dark Shams in my guild 25 man. Absolutely awesome trinket, ton of fun with Wings popping up ~20s earlier and roughly the same with Guardian. I'll flip Talisman to Feather tonight and see how that works out, just kind of liked the "constant uptime" feel (albeit at times maybe with only 1 stack) of Prim.

    Have to admit it felt dirty gemming Wicked Verm in all red slots.

    Sure felt nice downing some new content.

  16. #4456
    Quote Originally Posted by Conan1 View Post
    I'll flip to Feather tonight
    What.. why didn't you have feather from the get-go? it shits on everything else from ToT the uptime that thing has now is insane.

  17. #4457
    Have someone information about Ret pal for Paragon of Klaxxi? (Midwinter?!)

  18. #4458
    I was wondering if warforged fusion fire core is better than normal TF spark.

  19. #4459
    Quote Originally Posted by smorocis View Post
    I was wondering if warforged fusion fire core is better than normal TF spark.
    I'd say so, yes. Especially with a decent number of fights having adds to cleave.

    I don't know what's up with prim's, but it's been stacking 3-5 very often and I even had about 50 seconds of a 5 stack going on norushen(not to mention all the other 4 stacks). Feels like it's proccing more than it was before 5.4

  20. #4460
    Quote Originally Posted by Lunavale View Post
    I'd say so, yes. Especially with a decent number of fights having adds to cleave.

    I don't know what's up with prim's, but it's been stacking 3-5 very often and I even had about 50 seconds of a 5 stack going on norushen(not to mention all the other 4 stacks). Feels like it's proccing more than it was before 5.4
    Agree 100% regarding Prim's. It just "felt" like it was up constantly, I'll have to go back and read the napkin math closer in regard to HTF Feather > HTF Prim b/c I felt the opposite was happening with Feather. Seemed like 5.3 with a proc at the pull, but then (seemingly) nada afterward.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Veliane View Post
    What.. why didn't you have feather from the get-go? it shits on everything else from ToT the uptime that thing has now is insane.
    I did - I was going back and forth between Feather & Prim's. It was weird man, I felt like I was getting nearly NO uptime from it, but insane uptime from Prim's! Granted ~5 pulls is probably a bad sample size, but I'll be giving Feather more of a chance tonight.

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