1. #4661
    Quote Originally Posted by Thete View Post
    Where did all the crazies come from all of a sudden? So You think I should be gemming expertise over strength when i'm already over-capped on expertise?
    Equip Spark of Zand or the Timeless trinket instead of Feather, replace your gems with haste/hit? Also you have Nazgrim mace, obviously you're above cap. As soon as you drop it, you'll be fine.

  2. #4662
    Quote Originally Posted by Feliclandelo View Post
    Equip Spark of Zand or the Timeless trinket instead of Feather, replace your gems with haste/hit? Also you have Nazgrim mace, obviously you're above cap. As soon as you drop it, you'll be fine.
    Are you serious? stop spreading awful information like you have any clue.

  3. #4663
    Hey guys. Sorry if this has been answered. I read a few pages back and I think this issue has been talked about, though i'm not sure I understood very well Here is my toon http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Corella/simple .. I wanna cap my expertise, and askmrrobot would have me gem out of str into exp, losing 441 str in the process. Was wondering why it would do that instead of first reforging away from mastery? As I understood from past pages (big possibility I got it all wrong) is that Thokk's trinket and\or around 40% haste makes gemming out of str into exp in favor of more mastery okay. Isn't strength currently better for me? Apologies again for asking a probably answered question. Thanks.
    Nothing of me is original. I am the combined effort of everybody I've ever known.

  4. #4664
    Epic! Fredzilla's Avatar
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    Thok's trinket is not the factor of whether or not you'd gem for exp over str. Your stat weights determine that, so you need to run yourself through simcraft. If it says 2 mastery is better than 1 str, then you want to gem for exp so you can get more mastery instead of strength. So just check simcraft and go from there.

  5. #4665
    Legendary! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    160exp gems "removes" 160exp from reforges/enchants. Because of that we can say 160exp gems = 160haste/mastery, then we're looking at the choice of 80str or 160haste/mastery where secondary stats win. This is all because prime stats on gems are 1/2 of what secondary stats are, then consider Thok's Tail which increases your haste and mastery by 3-9% depending on ilvl which makes secondary stats even stronger.
    Made a post on it previous page.

    T16 (don't want to argue about old crap)
    Get hit / exp caps.
    Get to 16-17k haste (40% unbuffed)
    All mastery from that point*

    *unless things change*

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    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Are you serious? stop spreading awful information like you have any clue.
    Just do what I do, unless I know a poster or his signature has some sort of credible information (say high ranked guild) I flat out ignore them. I'm not saying I'm "pro" but I got a few years of experience and I communicate with a lot of rets in EU and a few in the US of A. This is the internet, be careful about what info you find and use. I never go to raids for instance with a new stat or rotation build, I sim them and then go to LFR to see a comat relevant situation of the build. I also use what I have of experience.

    All of this is rather irrelevant though, you don't bring rets for dps.
    Last edited by Huntingbear_grimbatol; 2013-10-01 at 09:00 AM.
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  6. #4666
    Isn't it more important what someone says than in which guild he or she is?

  7. #4667
    This thread hurts to read sometimes.

  8. #4668
    Regarding stat weights and confusion about haste still looking to be stronger than crit/mastery I recommend to use plotting instead of scaling in SimCraft. It gives you a graph showing the DPS gain from acquiring more of each stat rather than a static value for each of them.

  9. #4669
    This stat weight discussion is and old thing come on guys. Haste/Exp being superior to Haste/Str if not over capped has been true for a while now, you just had to have a H ToT weapon. I don't understand where all this confusion is coming from.

  10. #4670
    Legendary! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confuse View Post
    Isn't it more important what someone says than in which guild he or she is?
    A 6 year old can claim to know the molecular mass of every matter on the periodical table, if he's told that he's wrong by a university chemestry teacher who are you gonna trust?

    Was a time where I didn't agree with Anaxie, tried what he said and it worked. Just because we dismiss some "random" person doesn't mean we haven't tried what they are claiming.
    Take Charles for instance, he's not posting much but he has the experience at a very high level so he's got more credibility than say a ret that recently rerolled and is stick on normal Thok.

    Not saying that guild rank matters but it carries some weight as to how much knowledge you have and I expect a top 5 ret to be better at min/max than a top 200 ret.

    Then you have the wierd things that mages have, best TC mage quit the game in wrath afaik and he still dominates the mage theorycraft, think he's a math genious...

    Anyways I'm done rambeling

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aceshigh View Post
    This thread hurts to read sometimes.
    Sorry
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  11. #4671
    That's right, but you can at least think about what that guy said and then decide whether or not it's bullshit.

  12. #4672
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Are you serious? stop spreading awful information like you have any clue.
    He is severely over hit, and his feather is not upgraded. He might actually be able to squeeze in a bit more dps and obtain socket bonuses still. What was wrong about my statement? I already did the math 2 pages ago on how effective feather is if you can't utilize any of the hit.

    Seems like I stepped on your toes with my previous post. You might be a good ret Anaxie, but all I see is a bloated ego without any form of data backing anything up in each and every single post. I see you have quite a lot of fanboys in here, but it doesn't make you more right in the things you claim without any proof.

    I might be wrong however, I just wanted him to try it out for himself to see if it yields any results. As far as I know using Zand and regemming will yield around the same DPS as feather with no hit being used. So if he has a higher iLvl spark, it will come ahead, but we're talking few hundred dps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by etsumii92 View Post
    wat

    why else would you bring a ret?
    For the utility and the social aspect of it!? Otherwise I can't think of 1 scenario where you couldn't replace us with a Rogue . Rets are pretty average this expansion damage wise. Sure we can spin and aoe our way to the top, but it is more meterpadding than anything. Equip the Cleave trinket on Garrosh and you'll be set for the rest of the fight on rankings.
    Last edited by Feliclandelo; 2013-10-01 at 12:28 PM.

  13. #4673
    Quote Originally Posted by etsumii92 View Post
    That utility comes with a holy and/or prot paladin as well.

    Rets are in a very good spot this tier, and can top on majority of bosses if played properly.
    Yeah I actually meant they could be replaced by Holy or Prot too, but if you don't bring them, it could be smart to bring a Ret. I don't know how good we are, if we're topping isn't it merely because you're spinning meters or more or less tunnelling one guy from start till finnish while ranged take care of adds?

    I don't see the great benefit of a Retribution Paladin in 25man though, honestly. I see it more as bring the player, not the class. You can't have 3 Rets, but you can most certainly have 3 Rogues In 10man we can be quite good with our utility if there's no prot

  14. #4674
    and you bring rogues mainly for smoke bomb... something that is many times less than what a Ret can give. as usual at the beginning of the tier I haven't seen how well Rets are doing but the cleave/AoE is sick atm and the utility is great if used properly. I would definitely not mind getting a good Ret in for one of the 1-2 melee spots in my raid group.

  15. #4675
    I wouldn't bring a Ret ever, if I was to min/max my setup. I'd bring a Protection Paladin, and probably 1 Holy Paladin (unless it was 10man, then I'd bring a Ret/Prot and not a Holy).

    http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/

  16. #4676
    Well you can do pretty much every content with a Ret, but my point is. If you stack 3 Rets you might start to hit a wall, compared to bringing 3 Rogues which would be completly fine in a 25man setup, due to their high damage.

    I'm comparing.

  17. #4677
    I will repost this since it seems to be an issue every page or two.

    I got some information gathered up today when I was posting some Retribution stuff on our guild website. I will just throw down the information and if Anaxie wants to use it for the OP then feel free. This is assuming we stick with the 40% Haste area as our breakpoint.

    Gemming for the Expertise/Haste caps 7.5% / 40%.

    Under 17,000 Haste and below Expertise cap: Exp/Haste gems. Reforge all Expertise to Mastery.
    Under 17,000 Haste and AT the Expertise cap: Str/Haste gems.
    At 17,000 Haste and below Expertise cap: Exp/Mastery gems. Reforge all Expertise to Mastery.
    At 17,000 Haste and AT the Expertise cap: Str/Mastery gems.

    Thok's Trinket and how it affects your Haste Rating needed for 40%: (Thank Healiocentric for the nice image.)



    LFR(2/2): 5.9754% | 17000 / 1.059754 = 16041 Haste Rating
    Flex(2/2): 6.6823% | 17000 / 1.066823 = 15935 Haste Rating
    Normal(2/2): 7.5427% | 17000 / 1.075427 = 15808 Haste Rating
    WF-Normal(2/2): 7.9764% | 17000 / 1.079764 = 15744 Haste Rating
    Heroic(2/2): 8.514% | 17000 / 1.08514 = 15666 Haste Rating
    WF-Heroic(2/2): 9.0035 | 17000 / 1.090035 = 15596 Haste Rating

    - - - Updated - - -

    The reforging is obviously just for red slots. Not yellows or blues. So, please don't make a comment that says that we can gem for straight Mastery or Haste. Of course we can, but not in Red Sockets if you want the bonus.

    The reason this works is that you want to eliminate as much Expertise on your gear as you can. So, you can effectively pick up more Mastery instead. More Mastery/Haste gear instead of Expertise/Haste or Expertise/Mastery. This works this way because they budget secondary stats on gems 2x over primary stats. IE, 320 Expertise over 160 Str.

    The 17000 Haste is a roundabout number. It's not like you have to be at or over 17000. I just threw out the other numbers for the trinket at the request of another guildie.

  18. #4678
    Quote Originally Posted by etsumii92 View Post
    wat

    why else would you bring a ret?
    I'm confused too D:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanyn View Post
    I will repost this since it seems to be an issue every page or two.

    I got some information gathered up today when I was posting some Retribution stuff on our guild website. I will just throw down the information and if Anaxie wants to use it for the OP then feel free. This is assuming we stick with the 40% Haste area as our breakpoint.

    Gemming for the Expertise/Haste caps 7.5% / 40%.

    Under 17,000 Haste and below Expertise cap: Exp/Haste gems. Reforge all Expertise to Mastery.
    Under 17,000 Haste and AT the Expertise cap: Str/Haste gems.
    At 17,000 Haste and below Expertise cap: Exp/Mastery gems. Reforge all Expertise to Mastery.
    At 17,000 Haste and AT the Expertise cap: Str/Mastery gems.

    Thok's Trinket and how it affects your Haste Rating needed for 40%: (Thank Healiocentric for the nice image.)



    LFR(2/2): 5.9754% | 17000 / 1.059754 = 16041 Haste Rating
    Flex(2/2): 6.6823% | 17000 / 1.066823 = 15935 Haste Rating
    Normal(2/2): 7.5427% | 17000 / 1.075427 = 15808 Haste Rating
    WF-Normal(2/2): 7.9764% | 17000 / 1.079764 = 15744 Haste Rating
    Heroic(2/2): 8.514% | 17000 / 1.08514 = 15666 Haste Rating
    WF-Heroic(2/2): 9.0035 | 17000 / 1.090035 = 15596 Haste Rating

    - - - Updated - - -

    The reforging is obviously just for red slots. Not yellows or blues. So, please don't make a comment that says that we can gem for straight Mastery or Haste. Of course we can, but not in Red Sockets if you want the bonus.

    The reason this works is that you want to eliminate as much Expertise on your gear as you can. So, you can effectively pick up more Mastery instead. More Mastery/Haste gear instead of Expertise/Haste or Expertise/Mastery. This works this way because they budget secondary stats on gems 2x over primary stats. IE, 320 Expertise over 160 Str.

    The 17000 Haste is a roundabout number. It's not like you have to be at or over 17000. I just threw out the other numbers for the trinket at the request of another guildie.
    ya we have same chart in our forums. I'll look over it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Feliclandelo View Post
    Yeah I actually meant they could be replaced by Holy or Prot too, but if you don't bring them, it could be smart to bring a Ret. I don't know how good we are, if we're topping isn't it merely because you're spinning meters or more or less tunnelling one guy from start till finnish while ranged take care of adds?

    I don't see the great benefit of a Retribution Paladin in 25man though, honestly. I see it more as bring the player, not the class. You can't have 3 Rets, but you can most certainly have 3 Rogues In 10man we can be quite good with our utility if there's no prot
    whats your raid progress for the entire expansion? It's actually very relevant to the conversation since you wanna bash the spec.

    Something Myself, Solsacra, and our little Scrubuster ret friend would say is: You have no clue. Do not pass go. Do not collect 2handed weapons.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-10-01 at 03:30 PM.

  19. #4679
    High Overlord Zardox's Avatar
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    I welcome Feliclandelo and his way of gathering information to the Paladin forum. No need to be a dick to him.

  20. #4680
    Quote Originally Posted by Zardox View Post
    I welcome Feliclandelo and his way of gathering information to the Paladin forum. No need to be a dick to him.
    Yes because timeless trinket overpowers feather and ret should be benched in 25 mans. Anymore useful insight today Zardox?
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-10-01 at 03:47 PM.

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