1. #4861
    Quote Originally Posted by 6ev4enko View Post
    bump?

    Sorry if bumping like this is rude or sth.
    I already did the math on those exact two trinkets. I also did a simcraft where all the hit on Feather was wasted. Spark came ahead with 500-1500 dps. Depends on your gemming aswell. If you're using prim/second stat gems to utilize feather hit you could probably gain from going hit/haste and exp/haste gems and then using spark. But the other way around too. The difference is minimal overall, but after the initial pull you will atleast be able to time your ES with Spark since the stacks are so easy to count, where as other RPPM trinkets are just random as fuck.

  2. #4862
    hey everyone. I know that weapon damage plays a big part of our dps. I coined the gorehowl normal warforged from garrosh. I was wondering if the stats of haste and mastery from a normal non-wf polearm dropped from thok would be worth obtaining?

  3. #4863
    Weapon damage>stats Use Gorehowl

  4. #4864
    Field Marshal Muk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul360 View Post
    hey everyone. I know that weapon damage plays a big part of our dps. I coined the gorehowl normal warforged from garrosh. I was wondering if the stats of haste and mastery from a normal non-wf polearm dropped from thok would be worth obtaining?
    Always use the weapon that has the highest item level.

    Higher Item Level = More Weapon Damage/Dps > Stats

  5. #4865
    Can you guys point me to some resources concerning theorycrafting? Looking to know more about theorycrafting and learn the basics of game mechanics (armor reduction, attack modifiers, how to calculate what an ability should hit for, etc.). I would like to know the math behind the game and not have to rely solely on you guys or the guys at ej.
    Maegore @Maegoree Maegor#1377

  6. #4866
    Field Marshal Muk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maegor View Post
    Can you guys point me to some resources concerning theorycrafting? Looking to know more about theorycrafting and learn the basics of game mechanics (armor reduction, attack modifiers, how to calculate what an ability should hit for, etc.). I would like to know the math behind the game and not have to rely solely on you guys or the guys at ej.
    Most people theory-craft and examine the 'math' behind the game by looking through logs or using Simulation Craft. Links below.

    SimCraft
    WorldofLogs

  7. #4867
    Quote Originally Posted by Maegor View Post
    Can you guys point me to some resources concerning theorycrafting? Looking to know more about theorycrafting and learn the basics of game mechanics (armor reduction, attack modifiers, how to calculate what an ability should hit for, etc.). I would like to know the math behind the game and not have to rely solely on you guys or the guys at ej.
    Basicly gave yourself the answer. EJ is all about calculations, not sure if you read through the thread?

  8. #4868
    So I see repeatedly in this thread that you should go from t15 4pc to t16 4pc. But thats a very vague statement, does that mean LFR t15 4pc is better than normal 553 not 4pc? Is there a way to get an estimated value of the 4pc proc for DPS? I'm in the situation where I've picked up a number of offset DPS pieces in Soo and I'm struggling to figure out if its worth going up severla item levels or not, while dropping tier in the process.

  9. #4869
    Quote Originally Posted by etsumii92 View Post
    Check your logs, see how much 4p damage is, run sims, check statweights, compare, profit

    Nobody can tell you the secret answer. There is no secret answer.

    You need to remember majority of fights in SoO got cleave and/or aoe components, making the T15 4set less valuable.
    So to calculate that, would I look at the difference between the average 4pc TV and Normal TV's, and calculate that damage? If I do that, on my most recent Thok kill it came out to be ~6k DPS(2.4m damage over 400 seconds), but how do I account for the Mastery in that as well?

  10. #4870
    Quote Originally Posted by Sadinar View Post
    So to calculate that, would I look at the difference between the average 4pc TV and Normal TV's, and calculate that damage? If I do that, on my most recent Thok kill it came out to be ~6k DPS(2.4m damage over 400 seconds), but how do I account for the Mastery in that as well?
    Based off your Armory, you have 7390 Mastery. With BoMight, you'll have 10390, which should be a little under 47% Mastery. While I'm not 100% sure on these (I know others in the thread will be), you'll also need to somewhat account for the Holy damage bonus from the 2P and Inquisition for Hand of Light.

    If those all effect it, you'd be looking at something like 2.4 million damage x .47 (Mastery) x 1.03 (2P, we'll assume 50% uptime) x 1.3 (Inq) = 1.51 million HoL damage.

    If it's 1.5 mil over 400 seconds, you're looking at another 3.75K DPS for a total of 9.75K DPS. I'm not sure what your overall DPS is on the fight, so I can't compare it.

    Note that I'm at work, it's early, and my mathing and logic isn't 100% WoW focused at the moment.

  11. #4871
    Quote Originally Posted by Sadinar View Post
    So I see repeatedly in this thread that you should go from t15 4pc to t16 4pc. But thats a very vague statement, does that mean LFR t15 4pc is better than normal 553 not 4pc?
    You can use simcraft to calculate the damage you get from t15 4pc. After you import your character, add the line tier15_4pc_melee=1 or tier15_4pc_melee=0 to calculate you damage with and without the 4pc respectively.
    If you also calculate your statweights, you can know how much damage you gain from getting 1 extra strength and 1 extra secondary stat.

    Just as an example in my gear (I have a mix of normal and LFR t15 4pc, overall ilvl about 545, normal t16 weapon and both the Galakras and Thok trinkets) the t15 4pc is increasing my damage by about 10 %, which is a bit over 20k.
    1 extra strength gives me 5-6 damage while 1 secondary stat is about 3, therefore going from LFR/normal t15 to flex/normal t16 (~40-50 ilvls) is about 5k damage increase depending on the slot and exact ilvl (helm, chest, legs have higher itemization, so the difference is bigger compared to gloves and shoulders; going from t15 LFR to t16 normal is obviously a bigger jump then going from normal t15 items to t16 flex).

    As you can see, going from full t15 LFR 4pc to full t15 normal would probably be just barely worth it (you also lose you t15 2pc, which is another ~1.5 % dmg) on single target and it should be an improvement on AoE.

    If you wanted to know the exact numbers, you would have to sim your own character as usual, but since this situation is very specific and atypical (most people who don't have a single normal piece from precious tier and only have LFR won't sudenly get a full set of normal mode gear from current tier), the rule of thumb is to swap 4pc for 4pc.


    Just as a sidenote I would kinda like it if Blizzard just nerfed the previous 4pc to your typical 2-3 %, I know calling for nerfs with no compensation is weird, but getting a 50 ilvl upgrade and thinking to myself 'yeah, that item I will never use unless I get just the other 4 tier pieces first, to void storage with it' is making me sad.

  12. #4872
    Epic! Fredzilla's Avatar
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    Another thing to think about when considering when to switch off 4pc t15 is that, while there are many add and cleave scenarios in this tier, in a lot of those situations, boss damage is still more important. Would it be nice to pad off the adds in p1 of garrosh? Sure. But it's the boss damage that matters.
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  13. #4873
    Quote Originally Posted by Vanderhuge View Post
    -Snip-
    Thanks for the help! I can try to calculate what I do in practice with the results now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Meiffert
    -Snip
    Thanks, I wasn't sure how to sim the value, but that will actually probably help me the most, I was trying to figure it out based on my logs but simming it will probably produce better results. That said, I misrepresented my situation; I don't have LFR and am upgrading to normals, I'm just talking about in general the rule "go 4pc to 4pc" assumes specific item levels and lack of forged gear and offset pieces and such and isn't always a great rule.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fredzilla
    Another thing to think about when considering when to switch off 4pc t15 is that, while there are many add and cleave scenarios in this tier, in a lot of those situations, boss damage is still more important. Would it be nice to pad off the adds in p1 of garrosh? Sure. But it's the boss damage that matters.
    Yea, I was thinking about this particularly myself. For our group its single target damage that matters - we just got normal thok down and it was the hardest fight we've had all tier. The next few fights have very little AoE for me to focus on. I'm not concerned about cleaving damage on Garrosh when we get there, what I suspect my raid group will have trouble with is burning him down before we get overwhelmed with MC's and Whirling Corruptions, so single target damage is what I want to focus on maximizing.

  14. #4874
    Is Paragons of Klaxxi normal trinket better than Heroic Fabled feather of ji-kun??

    I would lost 500 haste, 100 mastery and 400 crit swaping trinkets (because currently i'm using all the hit of the ji-kun trinket), idk if the proc is better than this after the nerfs of Tot trinkets.

  15. #4875
    Quote Originally Posted by Reisar View Post
    Is Paragons of Klaxxi normal trinket better than Heroic Fabled feather of ji-kun??

    I would lost 500 haste, 100 mastery and 400 crit swaping trinkets (because currently i'm using all the hit of the ji-kun trinket), idk if the proc is better than this after the nerfs of Tot trinkets.
    If that is the crit trinket, no. Feather still holds up pretty nicely if you can use it right but amp/cdr still blow it away.
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  16. #4876
    If you had all the trinks, would you wanna swap out the Thok trink for the cleave trink on heavy aoe/cleave fights or stick thok becuz of the mastery and other stats?

  17. #4877
    Epic! Fredzilla's Avatar
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    Id only consider using the cleave trinket seriously for galakras or spoils. Add damage isnt really important on other fights.
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  18. #4878
    Quote Originally Posted by Fredzilla View Post
    Id only consider using the cleave trinket seriously for galakras or spoils. Add damage isnt really important on other fights.
    The cleave trinket is a downgrade over thoks/cdr even on add fights.

  19. #4879
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    Well there ya go, then
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    Quote Originally Posted by PraisetheSun View Post
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  20. #4880
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    The cleave/multistrike trinket doesn't work with our mastery which should be 20-30% of your damage, now IF you went crit over mastery it might've been decent.
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