1. #5081
    Quote Originally Posted by etsumii92 View Post
    Gems and CD usage is mentioned in the written guide. It's a quick refference one for gems so people won't have to watch the video for minor details. Found here: http://evrelia.com/retribution-paladin/

    BiS List is the only thing not included, but will be edited into the written guide later tonight (CET).

    Didn't mention holy 4set because the guide was written during 5.4 PTR/early launch/progression, will add it as well in the written one.

    Was planning to add a Sanctified Wrath vs Divine Purpose on a encounter-to-encounter basis, hopefully tonight as well.


    Edit: Thanks for the feedback though, it's hard to write down everything (As some things are obvious for me, hence I might overlook it :<)
    Good. Now can they allow EU/US real ID so speaking isn't so inconvinient?

    ~ You should mention sword of light when talking about exorcism and why it is the bottom priority. AKA bad scaling

    When I'm happy with the guide I'll reference it since I know and like both of you.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-10-30 at 03:05 PM.
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    getting banned from mmoc is like being let out of your jail cell when your sentence is over.

  2. #5082
    Quote Originally Posted by Montoyal View Post
    Man do I know your pain. I've been trying to get either Galakras or Thok from Normal and Flex each week and haven't had any luck, I do have the same helm from galakras 3 times though that counts for something right?

    But yeah as stated above skeer is pretty bad.
    I'm in the same boat, I have coined Galakras every week in every difficulty, I have won gear off him every single time, but never the trinket.

    I remember seeing a trinket "upgrade map" in this thread, I have tried looking for it but can't find it.

  3. #5083
    Epic! Fredzilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by etsumii92 View Post
    There's always skype x] PMing it
    As I was (very briefly) looking through the guide on the site, I was wondering about the weapons in their listed order. Does it remain the same even if you're a human or a dwarf (who would ever go dwarf? <_< oh wait...)? I know we're trying to stay away from exp on gear and reforges, but free stats have hardly ever been a bad thing, and it's got quite a lot of mastery for beyond 40% haste (which I'm already past in my relatively sub-par gear - as far as heroics are concerned), no thok's yet even). I have the heroic sword right now, and if I were to replace that with the heroic mace (WF or not), and managed to actually acquire thok's at some point to get rid of my awful feather, I'd still be over 17k haste, at which point we want mastery, which it has an ass-ton of.
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    "NEENER-NEENER RETS ARE WIENERS."

  4. #5084
    I was having the same problems with not getting any trinkets. Killed Galakras again today and rolled a Heroic Warforged trinket. Then we did General Nazgrim today too and no one wanted the mace so I got a Heroic Warforged Gar'tok. Pretty damn good day. Thok trinket tomorrow hopefully.

  5. #5085
    8 HC 25 man kills (4 sha, 4 nazgrim) and only 1 weapon drop, SOMETHING IS F$%^& WRONG with this rng... on top of that 3 warriors = x2 weps each.... It isnt funny any more...25man my @$$.

    oh and ofcourse the only thing coins gave me this patch is x2 times the worthless crit/hit feet from sha, someone is trolling me hard, but whatever coin is coin , ...


    p.s : just needed to rage somewhere , feels better now, thx.

  6. #5086
    Epic! Fredzilla's Avatar
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    We've had no heroic eyes drop (one dk got it from a coin on our first kill, but that's it). No WF weapons from sha or nazgrim. Still waiting on thoks... Hopefully this week, but I wouldn't be surprised if my awful luck continues.
    "You little hoochees!" - Daos, Lord of Terror

    Quote Originally Posted by PraisetheSun View Post
    "NEENER-NEENER RETS ARE WIENERS."

  7. #5087
    Yeah, our guild has rolled the 2 Heroic Evil Eyes. This is our second Heroic mace from Nazgrim though.

  8. #5088
    Quote Originally Posted by Fredzilla View Post
    I was wondering about the weapons in their listed order. Does it remain the same even if you're a human or a dwarf?
    Sword is best for humans, mace is best for dwarfs.
    The reason sword is better is that it has even amount of haste and crit while mace has a lot of mastery and little expertise. The way itemization works is the more of a stat you have on an item, the more each point of it costs.
    As a result the sword has over 100 points more secondary stats then the mace (3004 vs. 2894 for heroic versions).

    That's also why items only having 1 secondary stats are generally worse even if it is your best secondary stat.

  9. #5089
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    Wait a sec... so do I want to use AW and Guardian (after the first time ofc when they go together) as they are available even if AW comes up before GAK? I have been delaying my second use of AW to pop it along with GAK every time (and delaying ES until I am at 12 stacks of that buff). I have recently switched from Prot to Ret so am a bit rusty on some of the recent Ret theorycrafting.

    Also a bit unsure on gems... I should avoid reforging to Exp so use the Wicked Vermillion + exp on gear (Plus I am human so I get bonus for swords, and I'm using the 2H Sha sword, normal version) to cap Exp, rather than use the Str/Haste in reds?
    Last edited by Nobleshield; 2013-10-30 at 09:27 PM.
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  10. #5090
    Quote Originally Posted by etsumii92 View Post
    It really isn't as bad as people make it out to be. It's just underwhelming compared to Thoks/Galakras.
    So normal skeer is better than heroic Ji-kun feather?

  11. #5091
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    Wait a sec... so do I want to use AW and Guardian (after the first time ofc when they go together) as they are available even if AW comes up before GAK? I have been delaying my second use of AW to pop it along with GAK every time (and delaying ES until I am at 12 stacks of that buff). I have recently switched from Prot to Ret so am a bit rusty on some of the recent Ret theorycrafting.
    With Evil Eye it works out something like this (give or take some depending on what version of the trinket you have, upgraded, etc)
    0:00 - GoAK / AW
    ---
    1:30 - AW
    ---
    2:00 - GoAK
    ---
    3:00 - AW
    ---
    4:00 - GoAK
    ---
    4:30 - AW
    ---
    6:00 - GoAK / AW

    So, figure out the length of the fight you're doing and then you can adjust an earlier spot to line up that last set of CDs. For example, if the fight is only 5 minutes you could delay the 4-minute Guardian to line up with the 4:30 AW. My opinion at least.
    Last edited by Tanyn; 2013-10-30 at 09:31 PM.

  12. #5092
    Epic! Fredzilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    Wait a sec... so do I want to use AW and Guardian (after the first time ofc when they go together) as they are available even if AW comes up before GAK? I have been delaying my second use of AW to pop it along with GAK every time (and delaying ES until I am at 12 stacks of that buff). I have recently switched from Prot to Ret so am a bit rusty on some of the recent Ret theorycrafting.

    Also a bit unsure on gems... I should avoid reforging to Exp so use the Wicked Vermillion + exp on gear (Plus I am human so I get bonus for swords, and I'm using the 2H Sha sword, normal version) to cap Exp, rather than use the Str/Haste in reds?
    Using your cd's depends on fight length, and sometimes when you guys use hero (if its not at the start). You want to use them as they come off CD until you no longer get an extra cast by not delaying. IE (with galakras trinket) if your fight is like 3.5-4 mins, youd want to use both at the start, AW again once its off cd, then delay GoAK to line up with your third AW, since you would not get another GoAK by using it on CD. If the fight was like 5 mins or something, you'd want to use GoAK when it came off CD after its first use, then they would line up for the 3rd GoAK/4th AW. The trend goes on like that.

    As far as gemming, you want to gem exp and haste/mast if/when it allows you to get more of those stats on your gear through better reforges since both stats are better than strength (if you use the 160 exp on the gem to get 160 more haste from a reforge, thats better than just getting 80 str on the gem and reforging for that 160 exp). Chances are, unless you have literally 0 exp on your gear, you wont get to only use exp haste/mast gems, so you want to use them until the point that you cant get enough haste/mast through reforging for exp instead (you wouldnt want to use a wicked gem if 75% of the exp is wasted and you can reforge better. Strength is worse than haste and mastery on gems (or equivalent reforges), but its not THAT bad).

    Quote Originally Posted by Meiffert View Post
    Sword is best for humans, mace is best for dwarfs.
    The reason sword is better is that it has even amount of haste and crit while mace has a lot of mastery and little expertise. The way itemization works is the more of a stat you have on an item, the more each point of it costs.
    As a result the sword has over 100 points more secondary stats then the mace (3004 vs. 2894 for heroic versions).

    That's also why items only having 1 secondary stats are generally worse even if it is your best secondary stat.
    Thats what I figured, so the guide should probably reflect as much since there will be other people who most likely have that question (assuming it doesnt already - my look at the guide was very brief, I dont know if it later went into more detail about the weapon-strength order later).
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  13. #5093
    Mechagnome Neldarie's Avatar
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    0:00 - GoAK / AW
    ---
    2:00 - AW
    ---
    3:00 - GoAK
    ---
    4:00 - AW
    ---
    4:00 - GoAK <--- delete
    ---
    4:30 - AW <--- delete
    ---
    6:00 - GoAK / AW

    thats one cycle too many
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  14. #5094
    Quote Originally Posted by Neldarie View Post
    0:00 - GoAK / AW
    ---
    2:00 - AW
    ---
    3:00 - GoAK
    ---
    4:00 - AW
    ---
    4:00 - GoAK <--- delete
    ---
    4:30 - AW <--- delete
    ---
    6:00 - GoAK / AW

    thats one cycle too many
    He stated that it was with the Galakras trinket.

  15. #5095
    Mine was with Evil Eye. Guardian is 2mins and AW is 1:30. I thought I put that note in.

  16. #5096
    0:00 - GoAK / AW / double trinket procs
    ---
    1:00 - one proc
    ---
    2:00 - GoAK / AW / double trinket procs
    ---
    3:00 - one proc
    ---
    4:00 - GoAK / AW / double procs
    ---
    5:00
    ---
    6:00
    |
    |
    loot xD

  17. #5097
    Hi all
    i'm currently kind of confused with the Gemming. i realize that secondary stats are better than STR atm. but i dont think i should put more exp on my gear. i'm currently capped & all my expertise are reforged already. if i gem for exp - haste / mastery i wont be able to get rid of it. so to stay with 80str - whatever?

  18. #5098
    Legendary! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    Reforge away all exp on gear.
    Gem exp + haste until you're exp capped. When / if you reach 17000 haste rating change to exp + mastery gems. (Str mastery if you are exp capped and got enough haste.

    Exp cap? No? = gem exp + haste. Also haste capped? Yes = gem exp + mastery. Exp and haste cap? Yes = str + mastery. This is obviously for red gem sockets.

    If you're lucky with items this tier you'll go over 20k mastery while keeping your 17k haste. I'm at 15.2k mastery unbuffed without the Thok trinket and only 571ilvl.
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  19. #5099
    You should only ever delay a cooldown if it will not cause you to lose a use of it during the fight. So generally that translates into popping them on CD until the last one.

    For example:

    AW + GAK
    AW
    GAK
    AW
    AW + GAK
    AW
    Your GAK comes off CD and you know the fight will not last another 2 minutes. Delay it
    AW + GAK
    Finish

  20. #5100
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    Reforge away all exp on gear.
    Gem exp + haste until you're exp capped. When / if you reach 17000 haste rating change to exp + mastery gems. (Str mastery if you are exp capped and got enough haste.

    Exp cap? No? = gem exp + haste. Also haste capped? Yes = gem exp + mastery. Exp and haste cap? Yes = str + mastery. This is obviously for red gem sockets.

    If you're lucky with items this tier you'll go over 20k mastery while keeping your 17k haste. I'm at 15.2k mastery unbuffed without the Thok trinket and only 571ilvl.
    Thank you for answering. i'm currently capped on Expertise (reforged all my exp to other stats) so gemming str-haste when i'll reach 40% haste i'll go str mastery.
    cant post my armory link yet but i'm the only 90 paladin on EU servers by the name Onty

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