Anaxie's Totally Revolutionary SoO Retribution T16 BiS & Theorycraft

[Todyn]

I am the most kawaii paladin EU :3

Hawaii isn't in Europe

[Deleted]

If DS crits does it crit everything?

[20:04:50.542] Zardox Divine Storm Kor'kron Warbringer *362551*
[20:04:50.542] Zardox Divine Storm Kor'kron Warbringer 131000

[Meiffert]

How much of a swing of crit and mastery did you have from each of these builds? Did you actually go in and change reforges and gems around or just add to their values in simc like you did previously? 50k sims (since 50k will usually provide the smoothest curves)? Can you post stats with each build?

It was around 4k mastery reforged into crit (not added). I don't remember other details, so I decided to redo the experiment.

The mastery build is my current armory setup: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ffert/advanced
It has 17575 haste (41.35 %), 13397 mastery and 5638 crit rating.


For the crit build, I changed by current mastery gems with crit ones and reforged pieces where I could make a dirrect crit -> mastery change without messing with anything else. This resulted in 5272 mastery rating being moved to crit, everything else staying the same.


I ran each setup 3 times at 50k iterations with length of the fight being 300 seconds varied by 20 % and chose the median low-end result for each to post here.
While the average dps and range stayed somewhat constant between the runs (mastery range being around 16900, crit range around 16700), the absolute worst and best results were varying by several thousands from run to run even with 50k iterations (there was over 12k difference between 2 of the mastery high-end results).

With these results, I have to say that without having a way to find out something like 1 percentile results from simcraft, I am unable to say which of the stats produces more consistent damage for our purposes. We know that mastery has wider range, but that can be a result of having higher but less frequent top-end.
The reason why we were getting conflicting results in the past as far as low-end dps goes is because the error of our method is bigger than the difference we saw in 2 different builds.

It's actually quite the opposite : Mastery better for ST while Crit, relative to each other (hi cloak, hi no hammerwrath spam) stronger for AoE.

Your examples support your statement correctly, but the damage affected by mastery is higher percentage of our overall damage in AoE situations compared to single target, mostly due to Divine Storm being really high.

[xarxz]

i ran like 44% haste this week (ceebed regemming from tanking garrosh previous week) and managed r3 ij r1 malk and r1 thok. although i usually sit about 42.75%ish haste anyway. felt better to me with my latency (175ms, straya).

[Fredzilla]

i ran like 44% haste this week (ceebed regemming from tanking garrosh previous week) and managed r3 ij r1 malk and r1 thok. although i usually sit about 42.75%ish haste anyway. felt better to me with my latency (175ms, straya).

Don't want to/mean to sound like a dick or anything, but I don't know what the point of saying this is = /

It's either a) anecdotal evidence that can't be used to support/disprove any stat being better than the others
or b) agreeing that % haste is a personal preference, usually 40+ for the extra HoW, which I think we all agree on anyway

Again, not tryin to sound like a jerk, just confused

[xarxz]

Don't want to/mean to sound like a dick or anything, but I don't know what the point of saying this is = /

It's either a) anecdotal evidence that can't be used to support/disprove any stat being better than the others
or b) agreeing that % haste is a personal preference, usually 40+ for the extra HoW, which I think we all agree on anyway

Again, not tryin to sound like a jerk, just confused

anecdotal evidence all over the last few pages. two guys sim and make conflicting arguments, basically championing their favourite stat.

what im trying to say is that even though
ij: pure st
malkorok: burst aoe phases
thok: st with some disconnects and 1 sustained aoe phase
are all different types of fights, its fine to have any amount/distribution secondaries. strat and rng are far bigger factors.

i have the bis list missing a few wf here and there (except im using the crit sword; havent seen the polearm)

[Deleted]

anecdotal evidence all over the last few pages.

Doesn't make it more valid.

[Fredzilla]

Doesn't make it more valid.

True enough, and at least with simcraft, despite any possible errors in its set up and whatever discrepancies may exist between it and any given real fight, it can sim thousands upon thousands of encounters as its programmed to. Those aren't anecdotal numbers. Which is why we know not to go for strength over our secondaries. If simcraft was considered anecdotal evidence, we couldn't trust it for anything at all ever.

That being said, it's always much better to know the given parameters of the sims being linked. Things like this only matter if you can duplicate them.

[Deleted]

Perhaps I came at you for no reason Swampooze, that was not my intent. I was just excited to see a discussion that actually still matters with actual theorycrafting going on to back it up, this late into the tier. Regardless if you're 14/14 HC or not, understanding why it happend or how is always good to know. I like where the thread is right now, people are being constructive and are supporting most of their arguments with math, theory, practical experience or logs and not refuting eachother. I remember it was basicly me vs. 27 fanboys when I came in here and started the whole "Stop saying Feather blows Spark out of the water" and "40% cap should be taken with a grain of salt". I'm glad we finally sorted it out.

Dad is proud.

[xarxz]

That being said, it's always much better to know the given parameters of the sims being linked. Things like this only matter if you can duplicate them.

yes

you can only trust patchwerk encounters with sims.

its extremely rare for me to ever see 3 adds in melee on malkorok because ranged in my guild like to go berserk as they spawn. other guilds have a paladin tank which can bring them in easily and quickly for cleave.
you might screw up your glider on ij and have to run all the way back in.
some bats might stick to the thok tank as they come in.
you might go to a new guild and they let you tunnel nazgrim in d stance.
one week you may have more warriors in raid, the next you may have more shamans. one of these may disconnect or lag or mistime their banner/lash.

just a few scenarios which directly impact the validity of simulations. unfortunately you dont get 50k attempts per week to average it out. just the one.

even if you can accurately sim the exact encounter from start to finish, you WILL still get screwed over somehow. i dont argue with the results of sims on hard and fast single target tunnel encounters because it is the scenario in which fewer factors can come in to play. you dont have to stop dps, move, switch to adds or waste gcds bopping etc. so much of your damage is externally impacted by the skill and actions of the other people in your raid. so weird for an mmo...

[anaxie]

you know what i do on Maloraok since we had 5 chain wipes from retards 5 weeks ago? I put RF on and afk the fight and get all 3 add sto middle instantly fight ends with me doing like 38 million to bloods. But at this point 1 night clear > wiping like to be on WoW as little as possible till WoD if that makes sense.

Also funfact this week one shot everything up to thok. Then wiped to thok for an hour and then an hour or 2 the second day. Then one shot the last 3. A far cry from our 4 hour full clear week before by far.

[xarxz]

disregard ranks, acquire one night clears.

its the dream...

too many times oneshotting everything up to like siegecrafter then wiping on paragons for two hours. demolish both paragons and garrosh in one attempt the next night...

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

disregard ranks, acquire one night clears.

its the dream...

too many times oneshotting everything up to like siegecrafter then wiping on paragons for two hours. demolish both paragons and garrosh in one attempt the next night...

Same here, but with Malkorok and Spoils, and doing progress on Thok right now >.>

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

you know what i do on Maloraok since we had 5 chain wipes from retards 5 weeks ago? I put RF on and afk the fight and get all 3 add sto middle instantly fight ends with me doing like 38 million to bloods. But at this point 1 night clear > wiping like to be on WoW as little as possible till WoD if that makes sense.

Also funfact this week one shot everything up to thok. Then wiped to thok for an hour and then an hour or 2 the second day. Then one shot the last 3. A far cry from our 4 hour full clear week before by far.

Yeah same, Thok is somehow the hardest boss in SoO after the nerfs now and he's not really hard. Garrosh is easy as hell and P5 (or whatever you call the Stormwind phase) just comes down to getting the right people targeted with malice (for my guild at least). We still manage to do everything up to Garrosh (25hc) while boosting a person for gold, only 5-7 months left of this... YAY!

[anaxie]

6 months minimum after the prideful arena season launches since they explicitely said 6 months is a good duration for a season before their like OH YEAH and we are doing another in MoP>

Personally I love that next expansion until nearly next fall.

Dks buffed again tho come next patch. WTF is up with the double buffs O_o

[Deleted]

6 months minimum after the prideful arena season launches since they explicitely said 6 months is a good duration for a season before their like OH YEAH and we are doing another in MoP>

Personally I love that next expansion until nearly next fall.

Dks buffed again tho come next patch. WTF is up with the double buffs O_o

Where do you read that DK's are being buffed again?

Also don't be too afraid of the duration of the season. It might just be a filler, we've had it before. But I wouldn't be surprised if you're correct. Releasing games during summer is rarely a very profitable idea.

[anaxie]

Nevermind tooltip update from last buff.

I never saw an issue with ICC or Dragon soul lifetme wise Quality wise DS sucked ofc. I think deep down any serious raider appreciates the year break of raiding before the cycle begins again with a non stop chain of bosses to grind through considering the quantity of bosses launched within T11/ Firelands leading on the direct heels of Dragon soul and how T14/15/16 worked quanitity wise on what you had to grind through unless you are a guil,d that raids more in the launch week then most guilds raid in an entire month or 2.

If you work fulltime and have your own bills between working 10-12 hour days then coming home to progression raiding leaves minimal time to explore other games.

The fault of too many players is burning themselves out. Sure people can "be hardcore" for a tier or 2 maybe an expansion. If you want the best balance though to beable to stick to clearing raids for almost a decade to me one character and minimal playtime is the best solution. I never cared for the idea of playing / gearing something else to clear irrelevant normal modes or farm raids for a character that honestly doesn't matter. The 6-7 month cycles between raids and the 9-12 month cycle between expansion end / launch has always been perfection in my eyes. Lengthwise I think the ToT had the perfect quantity, quality, and lifetime of nearly any raid ever launched as a midtier expansion raid. Hell in all aspects I feel MoP was perfect in every one of those areas the entire way through.

It's a rare occurance to even make it through an entire expansion with 60%+ of your launch expac roster being the same as t[he end date roster. and you cannot call it until the day the new expac launches. I saw 4-5 ppl stay through icc/DS and then quit the week b4 new expac. Like WoW suffer through DS 10 months to stop playing. WTF?

[Deleted]

It's just tooltip updates. These changes went live weeks ago.

[Maegor]

It is kind of surprising that they aren't releasing late spring with ESO/wildstar coming out to try and stomp those games. Even though I've heard ESO is shit, I've heard decently good reviews of wildstar. Guess the other question is when is EQ next being released and will WoD be released around the same time as that?

[anaxie]

It is kind of surprising that they aren't releasing late spring with ESO/wildstar coming out to try and stomp those games. Even though I've heard ESO is shit, I've heard decently good reviews of wildstar. Guess the other question is when is EQ next being released and will WoD be released around the same time as that?

As if blizzard cares about 2 games that will be lucky to surpass 1 million. I think they are far more interested in building up supporting RoS so Diablo 3 can be reborn and bring in money from expansioni sales + Making WoD have a huge quantity of everything 5mans / raids / zones / world pvp zone that isn't shit/ alternative activities PetB/Brawlers/. Wildstar will be lucky to be talked about a year after it's launched ESO is trying to ride on it's highly succesful sandbox genre which will be absolutely nothing like the MMO in any way.