Anaxie's Totally Revolutionary SoO Retribution T16 BiS & Theorycraft

[Bonkura]

Whatever I say is assuming progression, I really can't bother with how people do farm... it's farm. I never did the T11 prot deal on progression either (unless it was a tight dps race) because I didn't want to cause a instant wipe, if you want to risk that then be my guest. If it's farm then who the hell cares?

lol this stuff is even more important in a progression guild if you can't even pull off people swapping gearsets before pull and follow a freaking pull timer then what are you even doing in heroic mode. You just can't be serious.

This is almost dumber than when you argued for going SW on every fight in the raid because you don't want to "pad" dps.

[anaxie]

This is true and swap sets were significant since rets, rogues, enh shamans, and quite a few others had access to them.

I'm with Bonkura even though I rarely practiced the T11 prot. I'm a little more regular with the prepull extra 8 holy power though because of how important openers and not missing a second of trink uptime is.

Plus a slight bit less risk since u can be done with the gear well before the countdown ends or even begins.

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You've must experienced a lot of ninja pulls. Personally I remember only one time it has happened to me since Cata. Might be selective memory but whatever, if people pull too early you're never at fault for not being ready.

Ninja pulls happen alot sadly. Sigh

[Saferis]

I've never really bothered going for those fluffed openers. I would like the prot T11 one because it's quick and simple, whereas the crafted holy one is a bit complicated. You end up partially oom at the start of the fight, and as mentioned by others, there's always the risk of someone facepulling. I know for a fact my H protectors kill came from someone wanding the boss 30 seconds before pull. In that case, the dps loss is MASSIVE in comparison to the gain.

[Smitus]

@hunting/saferis
I agree during progression I would be much more leery of such a thing(take gear off way early to be safe) but in farm I gain more overall damage from it than I lose even if I left it on for 1 fight on accident if you were to combine the damage of all the fights together (if that makes any sense?)

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Ninja pulls happen alot sadly. Sigh

During progress ninjapulls or early pulls etc happend to us maybe every 20-30 pulls, someone being a bit hasty or a DK standing too close when he uses army is all it takes. once every 20-30 pulls might not seem like a lot but when you pull 100-200 times before a kill and you wipe to "stupid" stuff (encounter based or not) it gets extremely frustrating. If you want to risk making a wipe on progress then go ahead, I'm not saying it's your fault if someone else ninja pulls but if you have your proper gear on you can at least try to make something out of it. It's not bad to do the trick, just know the risk and if you decide to try it then play it safe.

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@hunting/saferis
I agree during progression I would be much more leery of such a thing(take gear off way early to be safe) but in farm I gain more overall damage from it than I lose even if I left it on for 1 fight on accident if you were to combine the damage of all the fights together (if that makes any sense?)

It does make sense but for progress it's only one try that matters and that's the kill. Doesn't matter if you haven't died at all during progress if you die 2 times on the kill attempt because X or Y. This is kinda obvious but being consistent on progress is key, if you take it upon yourself to call for X incoming in 5 seconds then call it the next time and every time. Make people used to getting the information (if you're asked to let people know), after a while people will get used to it and play accordingly. If you then miss calling one time some people might not make the connection and die as a result, same with dps... if you do X dps one try then try to do at least the same again, if you miss the gear swap for whatever reason and you're not able to kill the blackfuse belt things because of that (example) then that's horrible.

Like I've said over and over, what happens on farm stays on farm.
Btw, if your hunters are meterwhoring. BoP their pets, listen to them cry. Hunter tears = gold.

[Deleted]

You can't just look at a video and say you have the strategy done. You need to actually have people practice it and make everyone aware on what to do.

How brutally true this is...
I come here after 2 months of 2-days-a-week Klaxxi 25hc progress, finally killed them *sigh*.
And still I see the same discussions about stats...

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

If you can get dps somewhere without risking a wipe, you should do so. There is no reason not to.

Exactly my point, if your guild has some ninjapull issues then play it safer if you chose to do the trick. I've never said that it's not worth it, I've said that you're not going to notice a huge difference at the end of it. Just be careful when using it, getting it wrong once is more noticed by raid leaders than you getting it correct 100 times.

Also, would you rather have someone die every 10th attempt but live on the kill, or have someone playing near perfect every pull get unlucky and die on the kill?

There's a HUGE difference between dying during progress to things you should (and can) avoid with personal cds, health stones etc and dying to avoidable things (rapid fire on paragons) is bad. I've done it, I'm sure we all have.
But if you die to that over and over then that's bad. On the kill if you're unlucky and get killed by a X which is unavoidable or just random damage not healed (or not healable) then yes bad luck. Example, Paragons, getting turned into a scorpion, while you have a parasite on you and you get hit by split shot from the boss in the middle. Unable to stun the parasite on you so it nomnom you + split shot + scorpion dot ticking = bad luck. Chances of "bad luck" happening to you (and killing you) 2 times in a single pull is very low.

If you die during empowered whirl and DP, Bubble, LoH, Healthstone or whatever else is ready for you then that's your fault. Yes bad luck happens, but not that often.

[Maegor]

Simulation for fight against 6 targets (full result here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...-4p-plots.html). I had 44.79% haste back then. Haste drops under mastery at around +2.5k and +3k (that should be around the 50% point). Until that point, mastery and haste are equal. But crit is indeed worse than mastery and haste for aoe.


The 1k difference was in a simulation I did for a 4 min fight. These simulations you talk about were made with default 7,5 minutes, if I remember correctly.

See all those dips haste is making where it goes under crit or mastery? Those dips, or plateaus, are one major reason people just say 40% like it is an actual cap. If somebody is asking about what to do on their stats or build, then they aren't using simc and getting this much information. So the easiest and quickest thing to tell somebody is, "get haste to 40% then mastery", instead of explaining all the intricacies of what is going on with haste between 40 and 50%. If you want to amend that, then say, "get haste to 40% and then go haste, mastery, crit, whatever you like".

Edit: Put LH in instead of ES for 6 targets and look how choppy haste is then.

[Deleted]

See all those dips haste is making where it goes under crit or mastery?

I guess those dips are created by the limited amount of multiple fight lengths (didn't use THAT much iterations - 10000 - because I didn't want to wait 5h).

Edit: Put LH in instead of ES for 6 targets and look how choppy haste is then.

What does haste about ES or LH? For what I know, both don't scale with haste. Though the crit graph would be different.

For me it looks like haste is better in almost every situation on fights > ~4 min and gets stronger so longer the fights are. The best "haste boss" is Garrosh, obviously.

[Fredzilla]

I guess those dips are created by the limited amount of multiple fight lengths (didn't use THAT much iterations - 10000 - because I didn't want to wait 5h).


What does haste about ES or LH? For what I know, both don't scale with haste. Though the crit graph would be different.

For me it looks like haste is better in almost every situation on fights > ~4 min and gets stronger so longer the fights are. The best "haste boss" is Garrosh, obviously.

Haste loses value though every time you have more than one ability to use. Doesn't matter how low you judge/exo/cs cd is if you dont use them on cooldown, which gets harder and harder to do as you get more haste.

[Deleted]

Haste loses value though every time you have more than one ability to use. Doesn't matter how low you judge/exo/cs cd is if you dont use them on cooldown, which gets harder and harder to do as you get more haste.

I don't have any problem with that. If you can't push buttons, all stats do 0 dps. If you can push buttons, your gcd is lowered by haste -> you use more abilities in the same time than with other stats. Why does it get harder to use your abilities on cooldown? Only the speed of your rotation changes. It's exactly the same with 0% and 50% haste

[Fredzilla]

I don't have any problem with that. If you can't push buttons, all stats do 0 dps. If you can push buttons, your gcd is lowered by haste -> you use more abilities in the same time than with other stats. Why does it get harder to use your abilities on cooldown? Only the speed of your rotation changes. It's exactly the same with 0% and 50% haste

I'd beg to differ. If you never press exo because you're always pressing other buttons (that is, 0 holes in your rotation, not far from how it actually is now), you dont lose any value from mastery. You dont lose any if you never even judge. But for every ability you dont use because you have a higher priority one to use instead, you still lose value on haste.

[Deleted]

I'd beg to differ. If you never press exo because you're always pressing other buttons (that is, 0 holes in your rotation, not far from how it actually is now), you dont lose any value from mastery. You dont lose any if you never even judge. But for every ability you dont use because you have a higher priority one to use instead, you still lose value on haste.

I use exo exactly as often as with 0% haste. The. Rotation. Does. Not. Change.

[Maegor]

I use exo exactly as often as with 0% haste. The. Rotation. Does. Not. Change.

That's true, because the ability cd is still relative to GCD until 50% haste. And I can't explain why the stat chart is so much more choppy (for haste) with LH than with ES, maybe somebody else can.

My point was that it is easier to just tell somebody that 40% haste -> mastery. I do feel it is prudent to tell them though, that you can't fuck it up, but most people want a solid answer on what to do, so that's why you see so much of the 40% haste->mastery. It's the easy answer. It isn't wrong, but it isn't entirely correct either. If somebody wants to know more, then you can get into all the intricacies of it, but 99% don't.

[Deleted]

It's the easy answer.

"Go for max haste until 50%" is an easy answer, too. And it's the higher-dps one (if you care about 0-2%). But those guys who don't care about the details don't probably care about that as well.

[Maegor]

"Go for max haste until 50%" is an easy answer, too. And it's the higher-dps one (if you care about 0-2%). But those guys who don't care about the details don't probably care about that as well.

Well, most people asking the question these days about what to do for stats can't get to 50%. And if you can't get there, then going mastery after 40% is safer because you avoid the plateau issue. So if they can get to 40% and then have 1-2k rating to play with, then if they go haste they may land on a flat spot on the graph and gain very little, if any dps for each stat spent. Whereas they will see a consistent gain in damage by going mastery (or even crit for that matter) for each point of rating they spend.

[Bonkura]

I gem mastery after 40% because I only listen to Ret Lord Anaxie.

[anaxie]

I gem mastery after 40% because I only listen to Ret Lord Anaxie.

Can blizz merge US and EU.

I love and wish to spend time with all of you guys.

I think next blizzcon we should gather about 30 rets and just get completely smashed. Blizzcon would be an afterthought.

Yall worry so much about numbers! Just be happy and admit that ret is your guilty pleasure. My best advice.

[Deleted]

Yall worry so much about numbers be happy and jerk it to ret n you'll be fine. My best advice.

Numbers make me happy! Often. Sometimes.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Can blizz merge US and EU.

I love and wish to spend time with all of you guys.

I think next blizzcon we should gather about 30 rets and just get completely smashed. Blizzcon would be an afterthought.

Yall worry so much about numbers! Just be happy and admit that ret is your guilty pleasure. My best advice.

Are you saying Rets need to jerk off to do epic DPS? :O