1. #1001
    Legendary! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    Without Art of War procs most rets have Exorcism on ~12sec CD now anyways so the 6% holy damage should have ~50% ish uptime, this depends on offset itemization for next tier ofc. No haste, no love.

    4set is going to be fucking annoying, 2-4 holy power you'd want to use crusader strike then templars verdict asap if the shit proc. Is it going to be more than 30% more damage from templars verdict anyways?
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  2. #1002
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoma View Post
    I think he means Exorcism benefiting from the 6% increased Holy damage. You'd need an Exorcism to proc the set bonus, and then an AoW proc with 6 seconds for a buffed Exo.
    Yes sorry I meant that Exo wouldn't benefit from the 6% damage.

  3. #1003
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    4set is going to be fucking annoying, 2-4 holy power you'd want to use crusader strike then templars verdict asap if the shit proc.
    It doesn't really change priority at all except during Wings where you'd use Crusader Strike instead of Judgment. The proc is obviously going to last long enough to not really interrupt rotation outside of that. That'd just be silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    Is it going to be more than 30% more damage from templars verdict anyways?
    I haven't confirmed boss armor personally but if boss armor really mitigates 34% of Templar's Verdict damage, then with Inquisition on top of that, is 1.97 times more damage when you use it with the proc.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-10 at 04:45 PM ----------

    I cannot edit my post... so the only thing that 4-set could be tricky with is Divine Purpose with multiple procs in a row. Would it be worth it to try to Crusader Strike between any of them? I couldn't even begin to guess if that's true or not.

  4. #1004
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    I cannot edit my post... so the only thing that 4-set could be tricky with is Divine Purpose with multiple procs in a row. Would it be worth it to try to Crusader Strike between any of them? I couldn't even begin to guess if that's true or not.
    Not quite the problem , it's established HA & SW are much better for raid.

  5. #1005
    Item - Paladin T15 Retribution 2P Bonus (New) Your Exorcism causes your target to take 6% increased Holy damage from your attacks for 6 sec.
    Item - Paladin T15 Retribution 4P Bonus (New) Your Crusader Strike has a 40% chance to make your next Templar’s Verdict deal all Holy damage.


    Early predictions.
    ~You will want to track the CS proc if it procs and exorcism is on CD you will be firing TV no matter what HP 3-5.
    ~Divine purpose will be the best talent when using 4 set especially with a any weapon in the 25k top end range.
    ~Mastery is going to become stronger then strength. Haste should still be valued highly if not higher because you need exo procs to maintain the buff and more haste = faster crusader strikes. The eventual goal should be to do as few judgements as possible.
    ~ 22-25% haste may be a hard stop point then go full mastery
    ~ Pray it's a low crit gear tier crit sucks.

    ~Most importantly this set more then ever makes ret a single target focus class. We are heavily punished for attempting to aoe HotR = no CSprocs, DS = extreme single target damage loss. Ontop of losing a Holy TV when doing aoe our -10% damage taken glyph could fall off aswell I'm sure that mitgation has saved all of us at some point in time.

    Essentially what I am saying is if any AoE fights exist and how poor rets aoe is and how much single target suffers vs say... a rogue / dk / random casters aoe/multi dotting. The ret is better of sticking to the boss full time. Don't be afriad to tell raid leaders this.

    I wonder if the set bonus is perhaps... too weak? keep in mind TV will be 275% wpn damage losing T14 2 set down from 316% The exorcism debuff CERTAINLY needs to be atleast 8-10 seconds 6 is terrible this should be a major complaint in 5.2 ptr that we should push for because.... if the debuff falls the next exo won't be buffed OFC we will need to see if mastery HoL dips from it. I'm going to guess no unless it's a holy proc TV.

    A small negetive impact from the Holy tv is the physical 4% debuff may not affect it then? I assume the 5% spell damage would kick in and buff it though but we should be wary of checking data on this when available because we all know how blizzard fucks up ret tuning especially after the whole stealth mastery nerf fiasco at the end of Cata in 5.0

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-10 at 11:41 PM ----------

    Can someone tell me how much armor bosses have currently and how much Physical damage it mitigates? There is a slight chance the 4 set may make up just a bit more then the 15% TV tier set bonus we lose.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-01-10 at 11:39 PM.
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  6. #1006
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    Am i missing something or does this 4 piece seem just as good if not slightly worse than the t14 2 piece. With a 40% chance for full holy damage, that being 30% increased from INQ; we see around 13-14% dmg increase overall statistically. Then factor in the 2 piece which should MAYBE have 75% uptime, we only reach 15% TV damage statistically. Am i missing another holy modifier or is this true? The idea, like Anaxie said, is hopefully that this ends up at a statistically 20% TV damage buff, if not more.

    I do like that we get to go back to DP. HA was boring and SW felt too clunky. As much as i hate RnG-dependant classes, it may make the class more fun.

    The 2 piece seems somewhat OK, but one thing they can do which would be interesting would maybe increase the AoW proc chance?
    Last edited by Saferis; 2013-01-10 at 11:53 PM.

  7. #1007
    Armor boss (93) : 24835

    Physical damage reduction : 35%

  8. #1008
    Nevermind FORGOT inquisiton. This 4 set is going to be godmode. Also i think this 2/4 and using DP will officially make ret one of the most complex classes to play at Rank #1 in 5.2. If the exorcism debuff gets a longer duration we could be sitting very well. Wouldn't mind 50% proc on CS vs 40% too.

    Early PTR too we may even see a 2Handed spec or seal/censure / TV base wpn damage% buff. Stay tuned and pray brothers.
    It would be very nice if HoL dips off the 6% holy damage but since it was changed to not work with 5% spell debuff we may be out of luck.
    The 6% SHOULD be buffed 30% by inquisiton however. we may even get lucky and get some multiplicative action between the 5% and 6% debuffs. small gain but a gain nonetheless.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-01-11 at 12:05 AM.
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  9. #1009
    My napkin math - see EJ/official forums for it - has the bonuses being roughly as strong as the t14 ones if not slightly stronger. I disagree with the 4pc boosting DP though - you are unlikely to see getting 2 CS in before you can spend a TV with both of those CS generating the proc.

    The 4pc boosts any individual TV by roughly 86-90%, which is kind of ridiculous.

  10. #1010
    How can the 4 set not boost DP?
    Also unlikely? it's 40% ur likely too see streaks of Holy TVS.

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  11. #1011
    Yeah the numbers I put on the other thread are definitely off a bit. Hopefully they buff it. The 2-set probably needs to be changed entirely.

  12. #1012
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    Yeah the numbers I put on the other thread are definitely off a bit. Hopefully they buff it. The 2-set probably needs to be changed entirely.
    2 set is fine. Just needs a longer duration.
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  13. #1013
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    I hope they make the 100% holy damage TV have a unique animation, that would be totally sick.

    One thing again to factor in; does the holy damage benefit from AP or SP, and then the additional 5% spell damage on boss?

    If so, we get 15% + 30% inq + 4% holy damage (2 piece with 75% uptime) + ignoring armour which has been said to be 35% = 84% increased damage? Holy tits.

    Then compare that to the original with t14 2 piece; 14% (AP bonus + weakened blows armour reduction thingy) + 15% (2 piece) = 29%

    So we are seeing 55%ish damage from our current status if my math is correct.

  14. #1014
    Quote Originally Posted by TheVelasius View Post
    Set bonuses are a joke.
    You must be new to ret. Please don't talk

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-11 at 12:21 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Saferis View Post
    I hope they make the 100% holy damage TV have a unique animation, that would be totally sick.

    One thing again to factor in; does the holy damage benefit from AP or SP, and then the additional 5% spell damage on boss?

    If so, we get 15% + 30% inq + 4% holy damage (2 piece with 75% uptime) + ignoring armour which has been said to be 35% = 84% increased damage? Holy tits.
    Weapon damage doesn't use spellpower.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-11 at 12:24 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kinmaul View Post
    Is the point of this thread to discuss how to properly min/max as a raiding ret based on the hand we are dealt from the devs, or complain about things that are completely out of our control as if it's going to help? I don't see how saying how good or bad we are in comparsion to other classes adds anything to the discussion. If the thread is going to turn into a pointless debate/whine thread then don't be suprised when the mods lock it.
    Or it makes us aware of our class weaknesses so we can push for them to be addressed in the current PTR. This also helps rets know their role in the raid. If nothing changes with tier set bonus and abilities we are looking at a single target only class that should be the #1 class to focus target a boss and not aoe because it's a pitiful weakness.

    Also, don't need your backseat moderation here. Thanks for the input
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-01-11 at 12:28 AM.
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  15. #1015
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    Mhm, they aren't modifying the spell only its damage conversion. I imagine it would say: "Does x% weapon damage as HOLY spell damage". Got that part down.

    I wonder if blizzard plans on making a UI attachment to the 4 piece proc; doubtful though, cause they already have AoW and DP, which would mean it would take the bottom part of the proc circle.

    The question i have is does this change make CS top priority over HoW or does it still stay where it is in the priority ranking?

  16. #1016
    Quote Originally Posted by Saferis View Post
    Mhm, they aren't modifying the spell only its damage conversion. I imagine it would say: "Does x% weapon damage as HOLY spell damage". Got that part down.
    We can safely assume at this time that the holy Templar's Verdict would be the same mechanically as Divine Storm is, except that it procs your seal too.

  17. #1017
    Legendary! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    How much would you suggest the 2set bonus duration to be Anaxie? atm I'm at roughly 10k haste rating and in raids my Exorcism roughly has a 12sec CD.

    AND when (if the 2set stays as it is now) exorcism procs and the 6sec (currently) buff still is active, will we delay exorcism to keep the buff up or will the exorcism damage trumph the 6% increase to holy damage.

    However good the 2set (and 4set) might be I can't help to think that they'll cause alot of micro managing and rng management which in many cases will cause rets (of lower "skill") to drop dps trying to manage it.

    2set - adds RNG to RNG we already have.
    4set - adds RNG to an ability we already have.

    Did blizzard just go full back on their idea of retribution from EVER? I mean, looks like they're moving rets (knowingly??) back 2 years in time...
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  18. #1018
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    How much would you suggest the 2set bonus duration to be Anaxie? atm I'm at roughly 10k haste rating and in raids my Exorcism roughly has a 12sec CD.

    AND when (if the 2set stays as it is now) exorcism procs and the 6sec (currently) buff still is active, will we delay exorcism to keep the buff up or will the exorcism damage trumph the 6% increase to holy damage.

    However good the 2set (and 4set) might be I can't help to think that they'll cause alot of micro managing and rng management which in many cases will cause rets (of lower "skill") to drop dps trying to manage it.

    2set - adds RNG to RNG we already have.
    4set - adds RNG to an ability we already have.

    Did blizzard just go full back on their idea of retribution from EVER? I mean, looks like they're moving rets (knowingly??) back 2 years in time...
    Its passive though, save for waiting on your TV to CS buff nothing is really changing, its more or less a passive damage increase. I prefer divine purpose anyways and now there is a good chance it might be making a comeback.

    Edit: Also glyph of exo .
    Last edited by silverhatred; 2013-01-11 at 02:23 AM.

  19. #1019
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    How much would you suggest the 2set bonus duration to be Anaxie? atm I'm at roughly 10k haste rating and in raids my Exorcism roughly has a 12sec CD.

    AND when (if the 2set stays as it is now) exorcism procs and the 6sec (currently) buff still is active, will we delay exorcism to keep the buff up or will the exorcism damage trumph the 6% increase to holy damage.

    However good the 2set (and 4set) might be I can't help to think that they'll cause alot of micro managing and rng management which in many cases will cause rets (of lower "skill") to drop dps trying to manage it.

    2set - adds RNG to RNG we already have.
    4set - adds RNG to an ability we already have.

    Did blizzard just go full back on their idea of retribution from EVER? I mean, looks like they're moving rets (knowingly??) back 2 years in time...
    There will most certainly be heavy micromanaging both 2/4 set additions for the best dps. The 4 set used properly should add a considerable amount.

    Yes I was toying with the idea of not using exo unless remaining proc is under 2 seconds in my mind. 2 exos back to back could prolly be used. It may be the 4-3 sec proced ones that u delay a GCD in priority. It's likely going to be very complex but rolling the buff should be significant. Censure does a considerable amount of damage on it's own so you know. And those TVs. Delay will be 100% guaranteed if HoL dips from it aswell.
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  20. #1020
    Legendary! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    So in short in order to minmax perfectly with theese set bonuses we have to be a god.
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