1. #1021
    Banned anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheVelasius View Post
    Set bonuses are a joke.
    You must be new to ret. Please don't talk

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-11 at 12:21 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Saferis View Post
    I hope they make the 100% holy damage TV have a unique animation, that would be totally sick.

    One thing again to factor in; does the holy damage benefit from AP or SP, and then the additional 5% spell damage on boss?

    If so, we get 15% + 30% inq + 4% holy damage (2 piece with 75% uptime) + ignoring armour which has been said to be 35% = 84% increased damage? Holy tits.
    Weapon damage doesn't use spellpower.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-11 at 12:24 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kinmaul View Post
    Is the point of this thread to discuss how to properly min/max as a raiding ret based on the hand we are dealt from the devs, or complain about things that are completely out of our control as if it's going to help? I don't see how saying how good or bad we are in comparsion to other classes adds anything to the discussion. If the thread is going to turn into a pointless debate/whine thread then don't be suprised when the mods lock it.
    Or it makes us aware of our class weaknesses so we can push for them to be addressed in the current PTR. This also helps rets know their role in the raid. If nothing changes with tier set bonus and abilities we are looking at a single target only class that should be the #1 class to focus target a boss and not aoe because it's a pitiful weakness.

    Also, don't need your backseat moderation here. Thanks for the input
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-01-11 at 12:28 AM.

  2. #1022
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    Mhm, they aren't modifying the spell only its damage conversion. I imagine it would say: "Does x% weapon damage as HOLY spell damage". Got that part down.

    I wonder if blizzard plans on making a UI attachment to the 4 piece proc; doubtful though, cause they already have AoW and DP, which would mean it would take the bottom part of the proc circle.

    The question i have is does this change make CS top priority over HoW or does it still stay where it is in the priority ranking?

  3. #1023
    Quote Originally Posted by Saferis View Post
    Mhm, they aren't modifying the spell only its damage conversion. I imagine it would say: "Does x% weapon damage as HOLY spell damage". Got that part down.
    We can safely assume at this time that the holy Templar's Verdict would be the same mechanically as Divine Storm is, except that it procs your seal too.

  4. #1024
    I am Murloc! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    How much would you suggest the 2set bonus duration to be Anaxie? atm I'm at roughly 10k haste rating and in raids my Exorcism roughly has a 12sec CD.

    AND when (if the 2set stays as it is now) exorcism procs and the 6sec (currently) buff still is active, will we delay exorcism to keep the buff up or will the exorcism damage trumph the 6% increase to holy damage.

    However good the 2set (and 4set) might be I can't help to think that they'll cause alot of micro managing and rng management which in many cases will cause rets (of lower "skill") to drop dps trying to manage it.

    2set - adds RNG to RNG we already have.
    4set - adds RNG to an ability we already have.

    Did blizzard just go full back on their idea of retribution from EVER? I mean, looks like they're moving rets (knowingly??) back 2 years in time...
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  5. #1025
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    How much would you suggest the 2set bonus duration to be Anaxie? atm I'm at roughly 10k haste rating and in raids my Exorcism roughly has a 12sec CD.

    AND when (if the 2set stays as it is now) exorcism procs and the 6sec (currently) buff still is active, will we delay exorcism to keep the buff up or will the exorcism damage trumph the 6% increase to holy damage.

    However good the 2set (and 4set) might be I can't help to think that they'll cause alot of micro managing and rng management which in many cases will cause rets (of lower "skill") to drop dps trying to manage it.

    2set - adds RNG to RNG we already have.
    4set - adds RNG to an ability we already have.

    Did blizzard just go full back on their idea of retribution from EVER? I mean, looks like they're moving rets (knowingly??) back 2 years in time...
    Its passive though, save for waiting on your TV to CS buff nothing is really changing, its more or less a passive damage increase. I prefer divine purpose anyways and now there is a good chance it might be making a comeback.

    Edit: Also glyph of exo .
    Last edited by silverhatred; 2013-01-11 at 02:23 AM.

  6. #1026
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    How much would you suggest the 2set bonus duration to be Anaxie? atm I'm at roughly 10k haste rating and in raids my Exorcism roughly has a 12sec CD.

    AND when (if the 2set stays as it is now) exorcism procs and the 6sec (currently) buff still is active, will we delay exorcism to keep the buff up or will the exorcism damage trumph the 6% increase to holy damage.

    However good the 2set (and 4set) might be I can't help to think that they'll cause alot of micro managing and rng management which in many cases will cause rets (of lower "skill") to drop dps trying to manage it.

    2set - adds RNG to RNG we already have.
    4set - adds RNG to an ability we already have.

    Did blizzard just go full back on their idea of retribution from EVER? I mean, looks like they're moving rets (knowingly??) back 2 years in time...
    There will most certainly be heavy micromanaging both 2/4 set additions for the best dps. The 4 set used properly should add a considerable amount.

    Yes I was toying with the idea of not using exo unless remaining proc is under 2 seconds in my mind. 2 exos back to back could prolly be used. It may be the 4-3 sec proced ones that u delay a GCD in priority. It's likely going to be very complex but rolling the buff should be significant. Censure does a considerable amount of damage on it's own so you know. And those TVs. Delay will be 100% guaranteed if HoL dips from it aswell.

  7. #1027
    I am Murloc! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    So in short in order to minmax perfectly with theese set bonuses we have to be a god.
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  8. #1028
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    So in short in order to minmax perfectly with theese set bonuses we have to be a god.
    You are so negative. The rotation is boring atm, this is perfect. Hopefully with a small damage buff we can be up there with all of the other classes.

  9. #1029
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    No I like the fact that we'll get something hard to do, it's gonna seperate those who can from those who can't. The issue is that there's classes with "less" to do with a much higher output, won't say it's unfair but it's far from allright.
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  10. #1030
    This is gonna be interesting for sure.
    I though fear going back to divine purpose. The RNG is killing me.

    Let's hope devs are watching this topic and are maybe willing to answer the questions regarding modifiers..

  11. #1031
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    How can the 4 set not boost DP?
    Also unlikely? it's 40% ur likely too see streaks of Holy TVS.

    5.2 return of the RNGadin. The burstadin is on vacation until 5.3
    I should have said not boost it over the other two. It's only a 16% chance to see a double proc on 2 CSs and you won't do CS J CS that often anyway in a fight when you also have a DP proc up. Add to that 16% the fact that that you have to get a 25% DP proc immediately beforehand and you are looking at only a 4% chance by proc rates of all 2 CS strings reduced further by the fact that not all 2 CS strings are preceeded by a TV or occur in precisely 4 GCDs. So yeah, in the unlikely scenario that you have a DP proc and 0 holy power, then do CS - J/Exo - TV - CS and get another proc you have come out ahead of non DP. (If you started with 1 holy power you could still TV without the DP proc) Note that this argument also is weakened if CS isn't worth using over Exo.
    Last edited by Balhale; 2013-01-11 at 09:29 AM.

  12. #1032
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    Anaxie, just a question, going off the standard rotation, and for someone at my gear level, which Tier 5 Talent should I be taking?
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...isery/advanced
    If I am taking Divine Purpose, where does the free TV fit into the rotation? Is it prioritised over everything else because it has such a low buff uptime for the ability to be able to be cast?
    Also if I were to acquire a Relic of Xuen, where does this prioritise the trinket, does it replace the LFR Darkmist or the Normal Orders?

  13. #1033
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunflora View Post
    *Snip*
    all your question can be found on front page.
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  14. #1034
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunflora View Post
    Anaxie, just a question, going off the standard rotation, and for someone at my gear level, which Tier 5 Talent should I be taking?
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...isery/advanced
    If I am taking Divine Purpose, where does the free TV fit into the rotation? Is it prioritised over everything else because it has such a low buff uptime for the ability to be able to be cast?
    Also if I were to acquire a Relic of Xuen, where does this prioritise the trinket, does it replace the LFR Darkmist or the Normal Orders?
    It sims as a negligible dps gain to hold the Div Purp proc til it is about to expire. Relic/Orders. Sim talents.

  15. #1035
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    So in short in order to minmax perfectly with theese set bonuses we have to be good.
    Fixed that for you

  16. #1036
    Banned anaxie's Avatar
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    The Retribution 4pc does grant a self-buff that is consumed by the next TV, and does not stack. Wasting some procs is expected, and balanced around. Yes it is a single-target benefit that won't increase DPS on AE fights. We don't want to be in such a limited design space (we're talking about the 15th tier here after all) that every set bonus must be super generic and work in every situation. If anything, we'd rather the Ret bonus be even higher for single-target and paladins will just be stronger at single-target and weaker at AE once they have the set bonus than they are in other tiers. Set bonuses are one of the few chances we have to change what your character does (within reason) aside from all of your numbers just getting bigger.
    GC pretty much saying exactly what I said about ret.

    SINGLE TARGET ONLY

    Keep VP to upgrade your trinkets / weapon /Belt as the final 6 items in the possible 3 months till 5.2 if you plan to obtain the heroic version in the very near future since GC confirmed vendors are going poof.

    I Cannot 100% reccomend any other slot without loot tables because at some point bracers and rings/necks are going to gain sockets and that can even trump Heroic Elites. I doubt we see a triple socket perfect itemiized belt in T15. upgrade that and enjoy it fully.

    I was under the impression 5.2 gear would simply not be flagged. Whatever u upgrade in theory should last you until the Heroic version of the slot in T15. Our tier set seems to be godly single target wise, T14H is good too so it's a complex choice.

    Giving advice to upgrade chest is a tricky situation... It's a great bump now but honestly the socket bonus and the crit on it is awful and hopefully we get a better alternative or even offset in T15 that at the very least has a str socket bonus.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-01-12 at 01:38 PM.

  17. #1037
    I am Murloc! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butosai View Post
    Fixed that for you
    If theese set bonuses stay I challange anyone to get theoretical dps within the "normal rng proc rate" like simc shows we're capable by, for the majority of retribution playerbase theese set bonuses are gonna create more confusion and frustration rather than "enjoyment" of the spec. In any case blizzard should aim to please as many as possible and with theese tier bonuses I don't see that happening, I like them... they seem like one of the most challanging mechanics ret has had to deal with but if this causes the ret (pve) playerbase to drop like a stone then that kinda moves blizzard into the direction that retribution needs a rework (again) which it IMO doesn't atm. Ret is fine in how it's played, boring at times but we got just as much to press and manage now as most other specs have (before considering hybridness spells like hand shits etc). What's "wrong" with retribution at the moment is sustained dps, T15 set bonuses solve that but they're RNG based which you'd think blizzard has learned from the past that it doesn't work. Retribution in T14 is "viable" because Stone Guards, Gara'jal, Elegon, Will of Emps, Garalon, Wind Lord Mel'jarak (or whatever), Protectors (heroic) and Lei Shi have % damage increase mechanics in the fight which makes mastery for rets double dip. Look at any fight without them and ret is in a very sad state. Ofc every fight is going to favour one class or another but unless T15 fights have many of the same mechanics AND the items of that tier is also loaded with haste we're gonna drop massivly behind (again), if or when that happens many of the ret players could decide to reroll which (and repeating myself) will cause ret numbers to drops = blizzard thinks of new ways to rework retribution which it doesn't need, just a minor sustained dps increase and less burst.
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  18. #1038
    Banned anaxie's Avatar
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    Again push hundreds on ptr feedback on posts directed at pushing the debuff of exorcism to 8 seconds. It's not 100% uptime but it WILL be enough.

    If the debuff is increased by inquisiton it will be closer to 7.8-8% holy damage taken increased. I SHOULD be right in my assumption that mastery is going to skyrocket given a holy tv thats HoL is also affected by the debuff the HoL is going to do major extra damage from the debuff 2pc alone. Delaying of Exorcism the the point i discussed in a previous post may not be a "negligable" gain like Balhale stated. Honestly that is the attitude seperating the top from the bottom players. Nothing is negligable, Maintaining a 8ish % damage uptime on boss could potentially be as important as inquisition.

    Also GC confirmed MASTERY should dip from the debuff in addition to the Holy TV. I got excited in the pants over that confirmation. Still check ptr numbers when avail so they didn't Fubar the data and not flag it to benefit.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-01-12 at 01:51 PM.

  19. #1039
    both set bonuses involve RNG.

    the class devs are an absolute joke. it's like they dont even listen to player feedback.

    well guys, have fun ranking on one pull, and not even coming close on the next! such is life when your set bonuses revolve around random procs.

    also, this is a pretty blatant nudge by blizz to get us stacking mastery over haste. which is lame, I really like how the rotation flows with a lot of haste. it would be funny if heroic t14 is a dps increase over t15, with a haste setup.
    Last edited by Moradim; 2013-01-12 at 02:52 PM.

  20. #1040
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moradim View Post
    both set bonuses involve RNG.

    the class devs are an absolute joke. it's like they dont even listen to player feedback.

    well guys, have fun ranking on one pull, and not even coming close on the next! such is life when your set bonuses revolve around random procs.

    also, this is a pretty blatant nudge by blizz to get us stacking mastery over haste. which is lame, I really like how the rotation flows with a lot of haste. it would be funny if heroic t14 is a dps increase over t15, with a haste setup.
    Since Cata/Holy power we've been a class that revolves around either Procs/DPS cds, or both; something that I can't really consider to be any sort of 'improvement' as such. Hopefully next patch fixes a few things (Unlikely as GC has said that Paladins are 'about exactly where he wants them to be' right now), but I doubt it. Clunkiness, proc-dependency and CD dependency await i'm sure, which is why in terms of PvP at least, i'm considering another class at the moment; having persevered since WOTLK.
    The first thing I remember about the world — and I pray that it may be the last — is that I was a stranger in it.” - Malcolm Muggeridge, Apologia pro vita sua (1968)

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