1. #1221
    Oh god, how much I hate direct pvp buffs. Especially we were told once that Blizzard don't buff our pve damage because it will make us OP in pvp as well.

  2. #1222
    Stood in the Fire Neldarie's Avatar
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    Blizz 1+1 = error 404 it seems. Ya gonna have like over 1000x2 of both xp and hit just from tier this time if both TForged...
    Last edited by Neldarie; 2013-02-06 at 01:50 PM.
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  3. #1223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neldarie View Post
    Blizz 1+1 = error 404 it seems. Ya gonna have like over 1000x2 of both xp and hit just from tier this time if both TForged...
    not to mention that there's a rep vendor trinket with 1.3 exp on it and a 5k str proc. what's with all theese hit/exp items?

    Back onto the topic of ret tiers, if I ever went off it...

    unless the "offset" chest this tier has 3 sockets aswell the offset tier item for ret will most likely be legs by the looks of it, despite 1 of the stats being terrible.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-06 at 09:34 PM ----------

    PTR raid testing with T15 (gear level set to 507) single target nuke came up with 85 - 90k dps sustained.
    Obviously not playing optimally or "pushing" dps since it's ptr and watching abilities and so on but realisticly I don't see us breaking 120k dps sustained this tier either.
    Last edited by Huntingbear_grimbatol; 2013-02-06 at 05:19 PM.
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  4. #1224
    Hey good news:
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    Paladin
    - We are going to buff Seal of Justice and Seal of Righteousness damage. Neither of these Seals is seeing enough use. Justice was always intended to be a strong PvP Seal, and it just isn't right now. We haven't solidified numbers yet - I'm just sharing our intent.

    I would love to see Seal of Righteousness effective at 4 targets, personally. Even if Seal of Justice was competitive with (or a little better than) Truth on single target, Truth still has merit in usage for multi-censuring and the utility of having a DOT on a stealth class/spec.

  5. #1225
    Finally they hear a tiny bit of our suggestions. SotR really was a lack-luster froim the beginning of the expac. For them to wait an entire patch to solve this is more than boring, but, hey, maybe it will be efficient at 4 targets (3 targets with censure being the limit I can keep up with my non-pro skills).

    I really would have loved it if they were off the GCD so that switching seal would not be punitive.
    GC answered me a no-brain reaction : off the GCD just means macros..

    Yeah, well switching seal for appropriate situations is called good judgement, not automatic macros with no reason to do so... and there should be no reason that a good decision shall be punished by the loss of a GCD...

  6. #1226
    Quote Originally Posted by metasaigneur View Post
    Finally they hear a tiny bit of our suggestions. SotR really was a lack-luster froim the beginning of the expac. For them to wait an entire patch to solve this is more than boring, but, hey, maybe it will be efficient at 4 targets (3 targets with censure being the limit I can keep up with my non-pro skills).

    I really would have loved it if they were off the GCD so that switching seal would not be punitive.
    GC answered me a no-brain reaction : off the GCD just means macros..

    Yeah, well switching seal for appropriate situations is called good judgement, not automatic macros with no reason to do so... and there should be no reason that a good decision shall be punished by the loss of a GCD...
    Off the gcd would change single target rotation would it not? You'd be getting truth to 5 then switching to justice until you had to refresh truth. I think that's too extreme for them.

  7. #1227
    Paladin
    We finished looking at Seal of Righteousness and Justice. Righteousness we ended up buffing by 50% so it should be a good choice against 4 targets instead of 6.

    Justice is much more complicated. It was intended as a PvP seal, but the damage loss is so significant and the snare just not that valuable (which is ironic when you consider Ret's history of not being able to catch things), and Burden of Guilt is there if you really do want to snare. Furthermore, just buffing Justice's damage risks Seal twisting in PvE becoming a thing, where you stack up Censure and then swap to Justice. It could be cool if designed right, but would probably just be annoying. We just don't have much room to buff Justice, and players might still forsake it in PvP.

    So, we're going to redesign it and attempt to solve another problem, which is Ret's damage outside of cooldowns (which are quite potent). Justice will now proc (and Judgment will count for the proc) a stacking debuff on the target that increases the damage of your next Templar's Verdict. With 5 stacks, this will be a big hit (but not an insta-gib) and opens up some interesting decisions about how to use Holy Power, such as Inquisition or WoG, if you're trying to hold TV. While Truth + Censure will still do more sustained damage overall, there is a chance Justice will see some situational use in PvE, and we're okay with that. Justice is a Ret-only thing, so it should be a Seal they actually use. It won't snare at all, which I expect some will call a devastating nerf, but again, there's Burden of Guilt if you really need a snare.


    Wonder with the seal change, if keeping up 5 stacks of censure on 4 targets will be more than righteousness

  8. #1228
    I am Murloc! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    Where did you find
    So, we're going to redesign it and attempt to solve another problem, which is Ret's damage outside of cooldowns (which are quite potent). Justice will now proc (and Judgment will count for the proc) a stacking debuff on the target that increases the damage of your next Templar's Verdict. With 5 stacks, this will be a big hit (but not an insta-gib) and opens up some interesting decisions about how to use Holy Power, such as Inquisition or WoG, if you're trying to hold TV. While Truth + Censure will still do more sustained damage overall, there is a chance Justice will see some situational use in PvE, and we're okay with that. Justice is a Ret-only thing, so it should be a Seal they actually use. It won't snare at all, which I expect some will call a devastating nerf, but again, there's Burden of Guilt if you really need a snare.
    If that's true then happy, doubt it though since GC has been pretty ignorant to ret paladin issues so far in MoP.

    Oh and btw, the mutation based boss in T15. 50% reduced damage all the time unless you're 10 stacks of mutated yourself, which means we're on add duty (that lives for like 4seconds) so seals don't do much and HoPo is gonna suck balls. So unless you convince your raid leader to let the weakest dpser get the buff you're gonna be below tanks. OH HAPPYNESS COME AND TAKE ME!
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  9. #1229
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    Where did you find
    If that's true then happy, doubt it though since GC has been pretty ignorant to ret paladin issues so far in MoP.

    Oh and btw, the mutation based boss in T15. 50% reduced damage all the time unless you're 10 stacks of mutated yourself, which means we're on add duty (that lives for like 4seconds) so seals don't do much and HoPo is gonna suck balls. So unless you convince your raid leader to let the weakest dpser get the buff you're gonna be below tanks. OH HAPPYNESS COME AND TAKE ME!
    That would be here: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...46?page=28#543

    My reply on that would be here: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...46?page=29#578

  10. #1230
    I am Murloc! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    thank, no EU forum love
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  11. #1231
    Soooo swapping to justice during CDs and then back to truth after?

  12. #1232
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    Quote Originally Posted by Runewrath View Post
    Soooo swapping to justice during CDs and then back to truth after?
    I can see it now. Holy tv supercharged with SoJ in pvp. Someone gets one shot then we get nerfed.

    Hey atleast we will make a good FC nuker now? lol

  13. #1233
    I have a feeling with 4 set we're going to see some HUGE tv's. But sadly you're right and it wont last.

  14. #1234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Runewrath View Post
    I have a feeling with 4 set we're going to see some HUGE tv's. But sadly you're right and it wont last.
    gotta remember a holy tv crit will be around 300k. WIth cd's alot more. Then if this "taste for blood SoJ" doubles that OMG. and we aren't even talking about the 40% hand of light hit yet.

  15. #1235
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    gotta remember a holy tv crit will be around 300k. WIth cd's alot more. Then if this "taste for blood SoJ" doubles that OMG. and we aren't even talking about the 40% hand of light hit yet.
    Well they are doing a really good job at making us THE burst dps. Hopefully we can get a Hagara esque fight eventually.

  16. #1236
    Quote Originally Posted by Runewrath View Post
    Well they are doing a really good job at making us THE burst dps. Hopefully we can get a Hagara esque fight eventually.
    Mel jarrak, Unsok, elegon, protectors, stone guard, garajal and will are not enough +X% damage to your taste ? they are the reason we are not on the bench in 10man raiding.

    As for SoJ redesign, I would love to make seal-switching and make them off the GCD then.
    Since my last post I had a response that Blizz might not want us to do that, but of course we will try it and if it is more DPS we will do it. And then seeing our seals on the GCD is gonna hurt the smoothness of our gameplay by a lot.

    But that would indeed imply a macro to spam every 14s : /cast SOT /cast Judgment /cast SOJ
    That would be it imo, and not so difficult to do. And I don't care if I repeat myself like a senile, taking seals of the GCD would be a good thing.
    Last edited by metasaigneur; 2013-02-08 at 12:31 PM.

  17. #1237
    Garajal would be the only one there where we only get the buff for only our cooldowns. I'm talking about a fight like hargara where there are +X% damage for a limited amount of time, spread across the fight. I guess if you do kill adds one set at a time on windlord it would be awesome, but a lot of guilds kill the adds one right after another when the debuff falls of.

  18. #1238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Runewrath View Post
    Garajal would be the only one there where we only get the buff for only our cooldowns. I'm talking about a fight like hargara where there are +X% damage for a limited amount of time, spread across the fight. I guess if you do kill adds one set at a time on windlord it would be awesome, but a lot of guilds kill the adds one right after another when the debuff falls of.
    I hate killing windlord like that too

  19. #1239
    I am Murloc! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    Well atleast they talk about how ret isn't where they want it to be now in both pve and pvp, they seem rather clueless on where to buff/redesign us though. Incease our ability damages flat out makes our burst stronger (which it doesn't need to be) and that's bad for pvp, getting kinda tired of the pvp excuse all the fucking time...

    Unless something changes like censure dot damage (doubt it will happen because that messes with pvp and aoe / censure spreading) and so on.
    Couldn't they make censure last only like 5-6 seconds on players so it becomes extremely hard to keep up so that seal of whatever they want pvp rets to use ultimately becomes the better choice?
    Likewise for pvp make Seal of Truth only possible to keep up on max 3 targets since they want righteousness to be the 4+ targets seal?

    I mean, if they don't want heavy nukes from rets but still need to increase sustained dps then dots would be the obvious route to go, maybe change the mastery to be a dot instead of direct damage?
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  20. #1240
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    Has anyone found a proper description of this new SoJ effect? The mmo blue post is mistyped and it has no percentages in it. I'm assuming it will be cleaned up soon maybe.

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