1. #1381
    Mechagnome
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    665
    Looking at what they are going to be changing the current T14 4pc to for 5.2 10% more damage on seals and Judgement that actually looks rather nice O.o. I'm going to have to see about getting my guild to push 4pc to me once 5.2 hits and we start clearing it. Not sure how fast it's going to happen though but we will see.


  2. #1382
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    I do too and it is perfect sustained and execute range damage gains because CS and TV are our bread n butter.

    Anyone who wants to push for a sustained buff try to stick the the Mastery scaling increase. It is overall the best sustained buff we could get and makes scaling so much better in the long run and damage spreads.

    Plus if we get it the synergy with our new tier set is redic... hehe
    And it also helps our AOE at the same time. I'd go with 5% two-handed and a mastery buff.

    Something else I would like to bring up is that we should get them to change some strength items. I don't think they're going to budge on the trinket at all. So much strength stuff has crit and hit on it, it's ridiculous. Both of the ONLY strength rings in the entire instance have hit on them. The only haste/mastery items in the ENTIRE raid are the belt, legs and shoulders - and there is no choice to use the legs or shoulders as off-pieces because using tier helmet + tier gloves is just not an option in the vast majority of gearsets.

  3. #1383
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    And it also helps our AOE at the same time. I'd go with 5% two-handed and a mastery buff.

    Something else I would like to bring up is that we should get them to change some strength items. I don't think they're going to budge on the trinket at all. So much strength stuff has crit and hit on it, it's ridiculous. Both of the ONLY strength rings in the entire instance have hit on them. The only haste/mastery items in the ENTIRE raid are the belt, legs and shoulders - and there is no choice to use the legs or shoulders as off-pieces because using tier helmet + tier gloves is just not an option in the vast majority of gearsets.
    Already mentioned and the lack of 2hander options 2 of them are apparently trash drops <the 2 good ones>

    Anyhow Reith u are late get on those forums. the voice has to be loud and asking for the same 1-2 general things.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-20 at 06:16 AM ----------

    Excellent post on PTR Reith, you did a far better job then i did entirely on the issue. Kinda think I was counting on that.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-02-20 at 06:17 AM.

  4. #1384
    Being unable to post on the US ptr forums, let me just say thankyou Anaxie & Reeth you pretty much summed up my feelings on the state of ret + upcoming itemization

    Please keep up with the (productive)posting there, it looks like some of it is starting to seep through to the devs, but as you say the most recent changes alone will not be enough to bring ret up to par, and anyone else wants to posting regarding sustained, please continue to push for the mastery scaling increase, this does make the most sense, we want to avoid anything that will potentially enhance "big" hits and (therefore break PvP)

    Despair are recruiting see RecuitPost for details or visit http://www.eu-despair.com

  5. #1385
    back to the 02/16, I tweeted GC those : "ret solution : AW back to 2min baseline, Sword of light 2H to 15%, censure 20s and slightly higher dmg. Voilà, ret is fine now"

    So I didn't think about SoJ willing to be the go-to pvp seal, and the mastery scaling is much more consistent.
    Hope we will see our Sword of light back to a decent level. 15% looks reasonable.

  6. #1386
    Sooo we're gonna be worst dps spec instead of 2nd worst?

  7. #1387
    Test and give logged ptr feedback. He clearly is ignoring anything but.

    Keep pushing the hit rating issue if need too.

  8. #1388
    Well, as far as the sustain dps expectations are concerned, I wouldn't hold my breath...It seems that some theorycrafters in EJ have no problem whatsoever with the huge discrepancy between burst and sustain phases. Given the fact that it has become quite funny that many blue answers have followed feedback and concerns expressed from said forums, I get the feeling that burstadin will never change. At least not as long as EJ squad is fond of the current situation.

  9. #1389
    Quote Originally Posted by catablitz View Post
    Well, as far as the sustain dps expectations are concerned, I wouldn't hold my breath...It seems that some theorycrafters in EJ have no problem whatsoever with the huge discrepancy between burst and sustain phases. Given the fact that it has become quite funny that many blue answers have followed feedback and concerns expressed from said forums, I get the feeling that burstadin will never change. At least not as long as EJ squad is fond of the current situation.
    It's actually better imo to have roughly the same average output but do with burst highs and lows rather than flat sustained dps - let's you take more advantage of burn phases, e.g. H-Wind Lord or the end of H-Elegon. See also ret's burst on Spine in DS.
    Looks like Balfail just talking to himself over at EJ. Burst is better to have then sustained he says? Oh lawd

    Insulting another forum user is never acceptable. - Malthanis
    Last edited by Malthanis; 2013-02-25 at 08:07 PM.

  10. #1390
    The changes aren't on the PTR yet but as soon as they are I'll be doing a shit-ton of dummy tests. I guess like 7 minutes every time? or something. It'd be way better if they still had the raid test dummies...

  11. #1391
    I think it's maybe time for some of you to get over yourselves with this "sustained" circlejerk. Currently, assuming SW which is likely to be used in most cases, we're looking at 1m 30s of "downtime". I'm having a hard time figuring out in what situations this leaves us so severely behind. Please enlighten me if you have obvious examples from this tier and the next. Currently I only see a problem with our aoe and cleave abilities and from what we hear adjustments are inbound there as well.

    In 5.1 we've been middle of the pack, only outclassed by specs known by all to be op. Somehow I feel many of your worries boils down to the feeling like it should be our turn to be top dog.

  12. #1392
    Quote Originally Posted by Ostwind View Post
    I think it's maybe time for some of you to get over yourselves with this "sustained" circlejerk. Currently, assuming SW which is likely to be used in most cases, we're looking at 1m 30s of "downtime". I'm having a hard time figuring out in what situations this leaves us so severely behind. Please enlighten me if you have obvious examples from this tier and the next. Currently I only see a problem with our aoe and cleave abilities and from what we hear adjustments are inbound there as well.

    In 5.1 we've been middle of the pack, only outclassed by specs known by all to be op. Somehow I feel many of your worries boils down to the feeling like it should be our turn to be top dog.
    Middle of the pack on single target sure, but then you have a fight that adds the possibility of cleaving or AoE'ing then we shoot to the bottom. This is where our problems lie. The 2 minute AW puts us right where we should be right now for single target. What we need now is a true cleave, or a major buff to our AoE.

    Also you're using the word sustained differently. Let me clarify.

    Burst + Sustained = Overall Damage

    We wanted higher overall damage or what most people mistakenly call "sustained." Every melee class above us also got buffed (warriors were buffed and nerfed) which is why most rets feel we still need more overall dps now. Look at frost DKs for example, they had better single target, cleave, and AoE damage than us and still got MORE buffs than we did.

  13. #1393
    The Patient Dmchomerun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Cathedral of Light
    Posts
    244
    Quote Originally Posted by Ostwind View Post
    I think it's maybe time for some of you to get over yourselves with this "sustained" circlejerk. Currently, assuming SW which is likely to be used in most cases, we're looking at 1m 30s of "downtime". I'm having a hard time figuring out in what situations this leaves us so severely behind. Please enlighten me if you have obvious examples from this tier and the next. Currently I only see a problem with our aoe and cleave abilities and from what we hear adjustments are inbound there as well.

    In 5.1 we've been middle of the pack, only outclassed by specs known by all to be op. Somehow I feel many of your worries boils down to the feeling like it should be our turn to be top dog.
    I think the point you are missing is if we didn't have cooldowns, we would be doing Cata DPS (Just a little sarcasm I guess). The only reason we sit where we are on the charts and ranks with other classes/specs is because of our burst damage. I personally enjoy the rotation to some degree and enjoy how the spec feels, the problem is damage outside of our burst every two minutes. With this recent change to AW, it keeps us right in the middle of the pack; but I think a lot of other Retribution players (at least the ones that give a damn about the current state-of-affairs of the class) feel that the problem is that we rely too much on our cooldowns and our speels deal too low damage outside of cooldown periods. You would think that using Templar's Verdict, a finisher that takes 3 global cooldowns to use, would hit harder than it currently does.

    The biggest thing is that Retribution players DO NOT WANT to have to rely on cooldowns.

    And to be honest, I am more worried about the gear itemization for then next patch now after the most recent changes to Retribution.
    Last edited by Dmchomerun; 2013-02-21 at 01:29 AM. Reason: -
    Exorcising Undead in the name of the Silver Hand!
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...homerun/simple

  14. #1394
    High Overlord
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    105
    I just want them to stop making our class solely reliant on burst. It would be nice to see just a solid sustained dps tier where cooldowns seem so "in the past". I just really hate them to the point where the class is so boring and all i think about while dpsing is "On to the next AW...".

  15. #1395
    Mechagnome Neldarie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    The Dark Side
    Posts
    553
    Who gives a shit about how ya deliver those numbers in one big bulk of burst or sprung over 2min of ABC juggling? Middle of the pack single-target you say? Check again, you're wrong.

    Bottomline is simple. Total output is the only thing that matters not BURST or SUSTAIN or w-e the fuck else ya wanna call it.
    WoW = Main: Ret Alt(s): War

    Diablo3

  16. #1396
    Legendary! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Norway, Trondheim
    Posts
    6,631
    The 2 min AV cd is all fine and dandy but it doesn't help at all in our sustained dps issue, which fights do we pop CDs as soon as they come up? Patchwerk fights or fights with no "down time" or no "burst phases" and it's in theese kinds fight we actually can say that shorter burst cd = higher average DPS.
    But encounters don't work like that, Lei Shi is a great example, there's frequent down phases and damage potential fluxiate alot. I've hold on to AV for 30+ seconds just because I know there's a burst phase or hero coming up in that time, then the overall dps is effectivly dropping because rets rely on their CDs to have "competeative" overall dps, which is stupid beyond imagination.
    They can make so many changes or atleast try them now that PTR has been running for a good month but instead they sit around waiting for us to quiet down.
    9thorder.com | Recruiting exceptional players!

  17. #1397
    Does the 2 minute AW change mean we'll be using Sanctified Wrath most of the time now? And should they fix that tier of talents to even it out some? I'm not sure of how they really rank currently. I've been Protection most of this tier and haven't kept up. I thought that we used HA if we had the 2-pc and SW if we had the 4-pc. I'm just trying to ascertain how this change affects that tier of talents. Thoughts?

  18. #1398
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanyn View Post
    Does the 2 minute AW change mean we'll be using Sanctified Wrath most of the time now? And should they fix that tier of talents to even it out some? I'm not sure of how they really rank currently. I've been Protection most of this tier and haven't kept up. I thought that we used HA if we had the 2-pc and SW if we had the 4-pc. I'm just trying to ascertain how this change affects that tier of talents. Thoughts?
    Actually, before this, Sanctified Wrath probably would've had trouble competing with the increase in weapon damage and T15 set bonuses.

  19. #1399
    If you're 600 or more over hit cap, would it be adavantageous to use haste gems instead of hit?

    I have a gear set that may be a dps increase if I could trade the hit for something else.

  20. #1400
    im tempted to keep t14 till heroic with the 10% judgment/seal damage change going on our old 4pc bonus. not sure if t15 normal is better than 517 t14.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •