1. #1461
    Quote Originally Posted by Valex View Post
    The HotR change that someone suggested above wasn't taking about the HP gain, it was more about being able to use HotR without a target, and giving the one Hpower charge that it normally does IF we hit anything, which I think is a great idea.

    DS spreading Censure would be awesome, but I think Blizz is scared to do that on fights where we would have like 20 enemies with Censure, Censure hits quite hard to kinda support our single target sustained, if that went into our aoe at a huge capacity like that our aoe would be through the roof. If saidchange was to occur Blizz would probably cap Censure targets at 5 or something, which I think it okay.
    HotR without a target also has been proposed by many people. Currently it's so frustrating with tons of adds and movement.. They're always behind you.
    Censure spreading would indeed need balance for high count of adds which would imply single target damage being reduced for Censure. That's why Blizzard would have to compensate on the single target abilities (HP builders, finisher). But, as I said on EJ, this is already being done with DK diseases.. If you look at DK logs in MoP compared to Cataclysm, you see at least one disease on Top3 abilities. They were buffed in 5.0 and they will be furthermore buffed in 5.2 (also Scourge Strike for Unholy). Diseases have no count cap (as I know of) and their presence on target modifies the damage done by other abilities by generous amounts of weapon damage percentages..

    And from what I remember, the (10) targets AoE cap was introduced around Ulduar or ToC time, if I remember correctly, which was a bandaid on the matter for the mages and warlocks. On the other hand, you can target other non-Censured mobs and get yourself more than X count cap.. Again, if I remember correctly, that cap wasn't counting all adds at one time with X debuff on them, but limited the spread of a specific ability from a single cast..

  2. #1462
    I am Murloc! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Norway, Trondheim
    Posts
    5,594
    Copy from EU PTR forums I made today.
    Seal of Truth
    Causese melee attacks to deal 12% additional Holy damage and apply Censure to the target.
    Sencure deals (107 ( + 9.4% of SpellPower) *5) additional holy damage over 15 sec. Stacks up to 5 times.

    *Idea*
    Increase the spellpower scaling to 20% of spellpower, that should take Sencure damage at 5 stacks to 85-90k damage over 15seconds + 30% inquisition for a 512 equipped player unbuffed. This buff would be intended to help the sustained DPS for retribution paladins.
    Make Sencure a unique effect so you can only have it on one target at a time to prevent spreading Sencure and making it too strong.

    Hammer of the Righteous.
    Hammers the current target for 20% weapon damage, causing a wave of light that hits all targets withing 8 yards for 35% Holy weapon damage and applying Weakened Blows effect. Grants a charge of Holy Power.

    *idea*
    First of all, remove the target requirement, it's horrible for ret to have nothing to break stealth with in pvp and it has obvious flaws in PvE aswell which is seen in Lei Shi encounter when the boss goes invisible and we have no way of hitting the boss.
    Change it do do 55% holy damage as a wave effect, maybe increase the cone distance to 10 yards and give 1 holy power if one or more targets are hit by the wave.
    This would increase cleave and aoe damage by a good margin aswell as further seperating the Crusader strike / Hammer of the Righteous mathy issue where it's not optimal to use cleave untill there's 3-4 targets that you'll hit with the wave of light.

    Divine Storm.
    Deals 100% weapon damage as holy damage to all enemies within 8 yards, costs 3 holy power.
    *idea*
    Simply add a 20% weapon damage dot that ticks 2 times over 4/6 seconds.
    Trying to find ways to buff sustained and aoe/cleave dps without too much involvement from haste and mastery is the best option I think, too much "scaling" changes and things will be acting up again.
    9thorder.com | 14/14 Heroic 25-man | West 114 | Recruiting for Warlords of Draenor!

    Follow our raids on Twitch!Bear - Retribution PoV

  3. #1463
    Field Marshal bacildaf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    greece
    Posts
    62
    So whats the current state of retribution paladin 5.2 damage ? We still have the most ridiculous cleave/aoe, it is an admited problem from blizzard but still no ptr changes to at least test some solutions. Most of the bosses in the new tier have adds /cleave /multidot. Is anyone here have any clue if they are going to at least try to fix this?

    Finally i still feel we need a small single target damage buff so we can be competitive with equally skilled warriors/dks . Some ptr feedback for our single target would be welcomed.

  4. #1464
    I am Murloc! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Norway, Trondheim
    Posts
    5,594
    there's announced that ret needs aoe / cleave buffs but nothing specific yet. The 1min shorter CD on AV is a joke and on PTR other specs are crushing ret dps and as if that's not humiliation enough there's 2-3 fights in T15 where melee isn't at a disadvantage before you even start.
    9thorder.com | 14/14 Heroic 25-man | West 114 | Recruiting for Warlords of Draenor!

    Follow our raids on Twitch!Bear - Retribution PoV

  5. #1465
    Yeah they've made some big buffs to other classes. DK's and Hunters looking particularly strong and could very well challenge Warlocks and Mages. Even Spriests seem stronger single target. Shamans and Monks looking better than Rets too. Warriors and Rogues obviously still doing well. I've not seen any good Druids yet but that's the last class left lol. This AW buff is simply not enough.

  6. #1466
    I am Murloc! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Norway, Trondheim
    Posts
    5,594
    In our guilds PTR 25man runs this week affli locks, hunters, moonkins and DKs were strongest dps, might be because of cleaves and multidots etc but seeing those specs doing 140-160k on council and me and the other ret struggle to reach 100k... yeah not looking good, need a shitload of aoe buffs to make us viable.. not like there's alot of room in T15 for melee to begin with.
    9thorder.com | 14/14 Heroic 25-man | West 114 | Recruiting for Warlords of Draenor!

    Follow our raids on Twitch!Bear - Retribution PoV

  7. #1467
    High Overlord
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    104
    As awesome as our AoE spreading censures sounds, I think Blizzard would call that too "OP".

    DS itself just needs a raw buff as its priority over TV only comes through until over 4ish targets. That should really be changed to 3 by a simple buff. I think a 30% or so buff sounds reasonable. It would also be nice if HotR wasn't targetted. Its annoying in AoE situations to find out what direction the add im AoEing off of is facing, especially in clusters of adds like on H Wind Lord.

    As for burst AoE, if a fight REALLY requires it, just get HA. If there's enough adds, just go HotR - DS - HotR - DS or whatnot.

    A SIGNIFICANT BUFF I think could be neat would be if Blizzard made AoW proc off of Censure ticks, not autoattacks, and make Exo ALWAYS cleave for 25% damage, without the range penalty. This way rets who can Censure stack on AoE situations/add clutterings will get crazy AoW procs, and thus more AoE damage. This could add a tactical component to ret AoE instead of just facerolling off of adds.
    Last edited by Saferis; 2013-02-23 at 10:27 PM.

  8. #1468
    Quote Originally Posted by Saferis View Post
    As awesome as our AoE spreading censures sounds, I think Blizzard would call that too "OP".
    Look at Serpent Spread for Hunters and diseases for Unholy DKs, both instant and both do way more damage.

    Censure Spread would mean we can get rid of that archaic SoR.

    Or they could make Light's Hammer apply a 5 stack censure on every target it hits instead, I just want to see a MASS CENSURE even if it's a cooldown.

  9. #1469
    Quote Originally Posted by Saferis View Post
    DS itself just needs a raw buff as its priority over TV only comes through until over 4ish targets. That should really be changed to 3 by a simple buff. I think a 30% or so buff sounds reasonable. It would also be nice if HotR wasn't targetted. Its annoying in AoE situations to find out what direction the add im AoEing off of is facing, especially in clusters of adds like on H Wind Lord.
    Divine Storm overtakes Templar's Verdict at 2 targets even with T14 2-set on.

  10. #1470
    I am Murloc! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Norway, Trondheim
    Posts
    5,594
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    Divine Storm overtakes Templar's Verdict at 2 targets even with T14 2-set on.
    true but the wave effect of hammer of the righteous and seal of aoe shit is really poor untill you have 4+ targets available, like I said I think DS is fine but it could do with a small buff to make our aoe "better" since hammer of the righteous is clunky as fuck to use.
    9thorder.com | 14/14 Heroic 25-man | West 114 | Recruiting for Warlords of Draenor!

    Follow our raids on Twitch!Bear - Retribution PoV

  11. #1471
    I have this feeling that they will make DP passive. Anyway dps is low but let's wait the aoe tuning pass.

  12. #1472
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    true but the wave effect of hammer of the righteous and seal of aoe shit is really poor untill you have 4+ targets available, like I said I think DS is fine but it could do with a small buff to make our aoe "better" since hammer of the righteous is clunky as fuck to use.
    Hammer also overtakes Crusader Strike at 2 targets...

    Divine Storm probably needs a buff to 120-125% weapon damage. They could go higher if necessary.

  13. #1473
    High Overlord
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    104
    Quote Originally Posted by Veliane View Post
    Look at Serpent Spread for Hunters and diseases for Unholy DKs, both instant and both do way more damage.

    Censure Spread would mean we can get rid of that archaic SoR.

    Or they could make Light's Hammer apply a 5 stack censure on every target it hits instead, I just want to see a MASS CENSURE even if it's a cooldown.
    Serpent Sting does not do as much damage as Censure Spread I'd imagine, but DK's do get the diseases which is significantly good. Then keep in mind that's what the class is known for. We have SoR, so you are right; they must either remove it, or we will never get a Censure-stacking AoE.

  14. #1474
    I am Murloc! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Norway, Trondheim
    Posts
    5,594
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    Hammer also overtakes Crusader Strike at 2 targets...

    Divine Storm probably needs a buff to 120-125% weapon damage. They could go higher if necessary.
    Yes hammer overtakes CS at 2+ targets but then you actually have to position yourself in a way that makes the wave hit atleast 2 targets which isn't always that easy.
    9thorder.com | 14/14 Heroic 25-man | West 114 | Recruiting for Warlords of Draenor!

    Follow our raids on Twitch!Bear - Retribution PoV

  15. #1475
    I hope they don't make DP passive.

  16. #1476
    I am Murloc! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Norway, Trondheim
    Posts
    5,594
    Quote Originally Posted by Valex View Post
    I hope they don't make DP passive.
    Same, I hope they buff Censure damage scaling by 10% so it deals 20% of our spellpower x5 over 15sec and make it only unique so it can only be up on one target at a time. At my current gear that would be a increase of 50k + 15k (inq) over 15sec for roughly 4-5k dps increase.
    9thorder.com | 14/14 Heroic 25-man | West 114 | Recruiting for Warlords of Draenor!

    Follow our raids on Twitch!Bear - Retribution PoV

  17. #1477
    Field Marshal bacildaf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    greece
    Posts
    62
    HotR without the need to have a target and some kind of censure spreading are good ideas but sicne patch is in about 2 weeks maybe its too late for such fixes.

    Though a +% damage on DS or HotR or sor or combination imho are easy implemended fixes from a developers point of view and they just need tuning. Thus i m really concerned why they havent even tried to test such fixes on problems they admited that exists on ptr but instead going crazy and making major changes buffs/nerfs to DKs for example who are in a good state both single/cleave.

    I think we must start to put some pressure for those issues to be fixed before its too late. Anyway hope we have something positive in the next days though i doubt...

  18. #1478
    I am Murloc! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Norway, Trondheim
    Posts
    5,594
    I'm already leveling an alt that I'm gonna ask to be gear boosted in the next 3 weeks or so, I'm not hoping for anything so late in ptr. Over half of the ptr pve testing is complete and implementing changes for classes now will mess with their data, I wouldn't expect any dramatic changes untill a month or so into 5.2
    9thorder.com | 14/14 Heroic 25-man | West 114 | Recruiting for Warlords of Draenor!

    Follow our raids on Twitch!Bear - Retribution PoV

  19. #1479
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    I'm already leveling an alt that I'm gonna ask to be gear boosted in the next 3 weeks or so, I'm not hoping for anything so late in ptr. Over half of the ptr pve testing is complete and implementing changes for classes now will mess with their data, I wouldn't expect any dramatic changes untill a month or so into 5.2
    So we won't see you whine nonstop here after you're done with your alt? Awesome!
    "Remembrance of things past is not necessarily the remembrance of things as they were."
    Juseeh
    T11 WR: 115, T12 WR: 45, T14 WR:44, T15 WR:37, T16: WR:28

  20. #1480
    Quote Originally Posted by bacildaf View Post
    HotR without the need to have a target and some kind of censure spreading are good ideas but sicne patch is in about 2 weeks maybe its too late for such fixes.

    Though a +% damage on DS or HotR or sor or combination imho are easy implemended fixes from a developers point of view and they just need tuning. Thus i m really concerned why they havent even tried to test such fixes on problems they admited that exists on ptr but instead going crazy and making major changes buffs/nerfs to DKs for example who are in a good state both single/cleave.

    I think we must start to put some pressure for those issues to be fixed before its too late. Anyway hope we have something positive in the next days though i doubt...
    Because they're not doing AOE tuning yet.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •