1. #1861
    Quote Originally Posted by Anafielle View Post
    Can't say I have a problem with that. B-) Mostly kidding, I haven't seen a reason to sit any class yet. Normal modes yo...
    Yeah, but mages seem to be doing poorly (until heroic BiS fire, which is gonna be stupid good), and locks are doing very well.

    Sha of Fear Melee hit You 372908 Physical. (766625 Overkill) (Critical)
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  2. #1862
    Quote Originally Posted by Revvo View Post
    Yeah, but mages seem to be doing poorly (until heroic BiS fire, which is gonna be stupid good), and locks are doing very well.
    Sounds like shit mages then, because mages are not doing poorly at all atm.
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  3. #1863
    Quote Originally Posted by Juicy View Post
    Sounds like shit mages then, because mages are not doing poorly at all atm.
    In comparison to locks/boomkins they are. Granted our mages don't like to play fire. Frost is broken, and arcane isn't nearly as good.

    EDIT:Also if you quote this image I'll slap you because it is not at all accurate.
    http://simulationcraft.org/520/Raid_T15H.html
    Last edited by Revvo; 2013-03-08 at 10:32 PM.

    Sha of Fear Melee hit You 372908 Physical. (766625 Overkill) (Critical)
    Begging us to buff is sometimes easier than trying to beat the boss.(Source)

  4. #1864
    Legendary! anaxie's Avatar
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    Rets are going to be fucking gods end of this tier.

    #1 4pce is what we are waiting on to explode
    #2 with the 42% haste level we should hit we get alot of things. 1.08 sec GCD, FOUR second hammer TWO under wings, THREE second CS great with our tier bonus, FOUR second judgement. AND a TEN second exorcism giving a non AoW debuff 2pce a 60% uptime.
    Just for kicks our auto swing should be 2 seconds with windfury + haste. Our Guardian is going to wreck shit since he gets our haste.

    Get four pieace, get a 541 weapon, get the RPPM trinkets and hit the 40% haste level, Sitback and lol at how broken that level of haste makes us.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-03-08 at 11:15 PM.

  5. #1865
    Quote Originally Posted by Revvo View Post
    In comparison to locks/boomkins they are. Granted our mages don't like to play fire. Frost is broken, and arcane isn't nearly as good.

    EDIT:Also if you quote this image I'll slap you because it is not at all accurate.
    http://simulationcraft.org/520/Raid_T15H.html
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-gu.../?s=119&e=328#
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-gu...s=1462&e=2000#

    Frost seems fine to me.
    "Remembrance of things past is not necessarily the remembrance of things as they were."
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    T11 WR: 115, T12 WR: 45, T14 WR:44, T15 WR:37, T16: WR:28

  6. #1866
    Compared to where mages were last patch? They were miles ahead of other dps. Not to mention their pets/frozen orb bug on a bunch of bosses this teir.

    Sha of Fear Melee hit You 372908 Physical. (766625 Overkill) (Critical)
    Begging us to buff is sometimes easier than trying to beat the boss.(Source)

  7. #1867
    Legendary! anaxie's Avatar
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    OK holy shit. Ret thread not the mages are doing poorly thread. Stop it

  8. #1868
    Stood in the Fire Neldarie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anafielle View Post
    US top 50
    That's not hardcore....


    And well set bonuses do look nice and good, trinkets however look pretty horrible and should bring us backwards. In regards to being gods, I strongly doubt it and disagree. Active dmg/burst cooldown class can only scale that far. Lack of strong passive dmg every other class gets will be the bane of that belief.

    Another thing is lets look at those actual set bonuses: 0set you have one important filler during CDs = hammer, 2set you suddenly have 2 = hammer + exo, and when you finally get to 4set you have 3 = hammer + exo + cs. So let's think again and take into account those crazy haste levels. You can instantly see how active dps style backfires. No matter how much haste you have 1 global will never become 2, so you're stuck sailing the I can't dump all important resources boat. While I do personally like the set bonuses alot, since they will do great good for our sustained dps, but ye let's not get carried away since during the burst their mechanics do backfire on each other and become somewhat "counter-productive".

    Good Rets (or well ANY other class tbh) will always have space/slot in any raid/enviroment (yes even 10man). Problem is not that however. Main problem is average players + beginners (new people) starting with shit spec.
    Last edited by Neldarie; 2013-03-09 at 02:42 AM.
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  9. #1869
    Legendary! anaxie's Avatar
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    The CD situation isn't as horrible as you are making it sound. Regardless we should find out if Exo debuff or a holy TV would be better during wrath spam, Then you can't ignore censure either with 30%+ haste levels. Then we will need to see if it double dips increasing hand of light through HoW+6% and HoL+6% twice.

    I'm sure a super powered TV doing the extra damage would be nothing to scoff at either.

    Honestly though with 4 set and the cooldowns abilties will have at late tier haste levels. I'm not worried about anything, least of all sustained.

    AoE is still a concern but what can you do. Maybe i can beg to sit ontop of horridon when hes EZ mode farm status :P
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-03-09 at 03:19 AM.

  10. #1870
    Stood in the Fire Neldarie's Avatar
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    Pretty sure they said somewhere that neither of the setbonuses will double dip HoL. And CD situation is basically 25% uptime for us , so it is rather big portion of >total damage<.

    Only class thats worse than ret @ scaling meleewise = DK, hence their truckton of buffs this tier.
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  11. #1871
    Legendary! anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neldarie View Post
    Pretty sure they said somewhere that neither of the setbonuses will double dip HoL. And CD situation is basically 25% uptime for us , so it is rather big portion of >total damage<.

    Only class thats worse than ret @ scaling meleewise = DK, hence their truckton of buffs this tier.
    Actually GC confirmed that HoL will be affected. Well of course have to test.

    No surprise since HoL is increased by 5% spell debuff afterall.

    Nelda let me tell you antoher reason the 42-50% haste threshold is so amazing. If you use say... AHK I'm pretty sure most people are spamming HoW ect. even with .3 sec left on it's CD. However, At these haste levels 1 sec GCD links with alot of FLAT numbers. at that Value CS is a FLAT second almost, HoW? Flat, Judge? Flat

    All these .3 .4 .5 secs of wasted time build up alot. When our haste gets to a point where We have 1 second GCD, and WE HAVE flat second abilities not 4.8 Sec hammers but 4 second hammers. We are going to see ALOT of returns on this. The GCD is rets resource afterall.

    42% haste is reachable with Full BiS non thunderforged. TF some amazing slots like weapon? Belt, Hands, Rings, anything. Haste bulks up more. If VP+ returns well climb well into the 45% haste area ect. Hopefully these metas attacks are able to count as procabble attacks. Would help a ton with these RPPM trinkets.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-03-09 at 03:49 AM.

  12. #1872
    Stood in the Fire Neldarie's Avatar
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    It still doesn't affect the real problem which is scaling with gear/stats/w-e. Our 4set during cd "clusterfuck" is the exact same reason why DKs scale poorly (overflow of resources). GCDs don't scale esp on such minor numbers. Passive dmg like whites/deep-wounds/poisons do. All we got to show for it is GoaK (10% uptime lawl, and well censure). Poor trinket design is really big issue too considering how much % of our total dmg is burst.

    Ret do look really good now for progress because all we got were flatout buffs in all areas (AE, SotL, free minor boost via old t14 4set). But scaling problem will remain, that's why simcrafts may not be accurate and all but they do tell the tale (because ye its math,which even if innacurate shows the real picture).
    Last edited by Neldarie; 2013-03-09 at 03:56 AM.
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  13. #1873
    I don't know if ppl actually took time to look but the simcraft has the old 4set bonus of the lightning strike damage that would have taken place of the TV making TV do less overall damage then hand of light. Which also means it would be an overall increase in damage since a holy tv would do more then a lightning one for obvious reasons. Cheers.

  14. #1874
    How much haste rating is 42%

  15. #1875
    Quote Originally Posted by silverhatred View Post
    How much haste rating is 42%
    Around 17,851

    Sha of Fear Melee hit You 372908 Physical. (766625 Overkill) (Critical)
    Begging us to buff is sometimes easier than trying to beat the boss.(Source)

  16. #1876
    by my estimation its about 17850

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-09 at 07:55 AM ----------

    you guys answer fast tonight

  17. #1877
    The Patient Prometheous's Avatar
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    To address our 2/4pc bonuses, maybe we can push the idea of having them add in HotR and somehow add DS to it as well. Just so that our bonuses arent punishing us for AoEing.

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  18. #1878
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prometheous View Post
    To address our 2/4pc bonuses, maybe we can push the idea of having them add in HotR and somehow add DS to it as well. Just so that our bonuses arent punishing us for AoEing.
    Hey raid leader. Yeah I gotta sit on Horridon sorry :< not allowed to aoe.

  19. #1879
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    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Hey raid leader. Yeah I gotta sit on Horridon sorry :< not allowed to aoe.
    Oooor, hey raid leader, I really have to tunnel the boss. But not for rankings, it's because my gear wants me to.

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  20. #1880
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anafielle View Post
    Yes. Absolutely honestly. US top 50, we run two mainspec rets. Ran them just fine through 16/16H, no plans to change in T15? Raidbots says that slightly over 1 ret per 25 was average all through last tier for 25 man guilds, which sounds fine to me for one spec from a 3 spec class. I honestly have no idea what you're talking about.

    And ret has looked fine so far through TOT normals. Check TOT logs, no one is sitting ret paladins?
    First of all, normal mode.
    Second of all, US top 50? are you kidding me? go check eu+us top 50 and check the number of rets vs the number of other dps specs.
    Third of all, if you actually have rets on the top of your meters this tier your guild dpsers isn't up to par. Only fights where ret should be "high" on dps is Jin'Rokh and maybe Horridon if we're allowed to sit on the boss to abuse the stacking damage taken debuff on him.

    Ret, while not being totally unviable, is a drag to any guild who's gonna push ranks this tier. That's not jibberish/QQ, that's a fact. When progress is over in a month or so we'll get help from blizzard, probablly a Divine Storm buff (although I do see GCs point with ret's being quite potent with clumped aoe) the thing is that rets is "meh" in everything we do and top guilds would rather take someone who's awesome at ONE thing in order to push a boss kill.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-09 at 11:30 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Revvo View Post
    Yeah, but mages seem to be doing poorly (until heroic BiS fire, which is gonna be stupid good), and locks are doing very well.
    Locks make me sick atm, in a month or so fire mages and warriors will do the same thing, fucking multidotters and crit scaling specs... every fucking expansion they blow up at some point and become OP as fuck...

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-09 at 11:33 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Rets are going to be fucking gods end of this tier.

    #1 4pce is what we are waiting on to explode
    #2 with the 42% haste level we should hit we get alot of things. 1.08 sec GCD, FOUR second hammer TWO under wings, THREE second CS great with our tier bonus, FOUR second judgement. AND a TEN second exorcism giving a non AoW debuff 2pce a 60% uptime.
    Just for kicks our auto swing should be 2 seconds with windfury + haste. Our Guardian is going to wreck shit since he gets our haste.

    Get four pieace, get a 541 weapon, get the RPPM trinkets and hit the 40% haste level, Sitback and lol at how broken that level of haste makes us.
    While I agree with you completely you'd be silly to take tier over shadow priests and locks this tier, they'll demolish everything sadly. I've already passed on all conq tiers so far because the dps specs we share tier with are so much better.

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