Question about the trinkets:
Currently using normal Final Orders + Relic of Xuen (both fully upgraded). Should I be bothering with any of the normal mode ToT trinkets? If so which one? Surely worth replacing Relic with one of them at the very least? Also askmrrobot is listing the VP vendor trinket as BiS which is obviously wrong, but is it worth using at all?
Wish I had a working brain for this shit haha.
Iron Qon is a shit fight for melee in general if they haven't fixed the hitbox issues from PTR, havent personally done Twin Consorts/Lei Shen yet, but Lei Shen looks like a strong fight for us aswell where we can compete with most classes on.
Last edited by Juicy; 2013-03-09 at 05:08 PM.
Regarding Ret DPS compared to others, if you're not getting beaten by almost every other class in almost every situation, the people playing them suck. That's all there is to it. The only classes that shouldn't beat you consistently are Monks and Shamans - that's it.
Hey, I'm from Ask Mr. Robot. I see that the trinket list here is different, and a few people disagree with the trinkets we recommend. I'm stalking MMO-C forums to find people who disagree and do some theorycrafting. Trinkets are tough, but we simulate all of them to get the average uptime (here's a list of those simulated values). This takes the RealPPM into account, as well as a person's Haste. Here's some in-depth details about how we handle trinkets. Also, we're using the latest proc information from Ghostcrawler.
That being said, I'd like to make sure everything is working right on our trinkets, just in case one of them needs adjusting. For this exercise I'm using the stat weights of: STR (3.52), Haste (1.93), Exp (2.5), Crit (1.46)
- Brutal Talisman (522): 1467 EXP and 1764 avg STR from proc = (1467 * 2.5) + (1764 * 3.52) = 3668 + 6209 = 9877
- Darkmist Vortex (509): 1300 STR and 1580 avg Haste from proc = (1300 * 3.52) + (1580 * 1.93) = 4576 + 3047 = 7623
- Spark of Zandalar (522): 1467 Haste and 697 STR from proc = (1467 * 1.93) + (697 * 3.52) = 2831 + 2454 = 5285
- Primordius Talisman (522): 1467 Crit and 957 STR from proc = (1467 * 1.46) + (957 * 3.52) = 2142 + 3369 = 5511
As you can see from that math, the Brutal Talisman destroys the other trinkets. Now, let's do a reality check with napkin math regarding these trinket procs:
- Brutal Talisman: 15% chance for 15 sec w/ 75 sec ICD. That is a 20% uptime. So 20% * 8800 STR = 1760 STR
- Darkmist Vortex: 15% chance for 20 sec w/105 ICD. That's a 19% uptime. So 19% * 7796 = 1481 Haste
- Spark of Zandalar: Get 10 stacks once every 2 minutes (5RPPM). 20 sec duration over 120 seconds = 16% uptime. 16% * 8279 = 1325 STR
- Primordius Talisman: 3 RPPM. So it's up for 10 sec out of every 20 sec for a 50% uptime. 50% * 1538 = 769 STR
Now, Haste affects the RPPM, so let's apply about a 30% buff from extra procs to the two RPPM trinkets. NOTE!! Mr. Robot factors in your actual Haste when ranking the trinkets for your character. Anyway, the new numbers would look like this:
- Brutal Talisman: 1760 STR
- Darkmist Vortex: 1481 Haste
- Spark of Zandalar: 1325 STR + 30% = 1722 STR
- Primordius Talisman: 769 STR + 30% = 1000 STR
So my question to all of you: am I missing something? (It's possible, we have data coming out our ears for our 5.2 updates). Or do you prefer the other trinkets for a different reason, since a lot of trinkets just come down to personal preference for people. Or does the math work out and make sense and Mr. Robot's original rankings are right?
Edit: added to answer megraam: it will be very rare to stack it past 3. Even stacking to 3 is probably not that common. It should proc 3 times per minute, on average and last for 10 seconds, so you need procs to happen pretty quickly to even get to a stack of 3.
As far as I know, for the talisman, the expertise aren't extra stats, you're going to be expertise capped anyway, therefore you need to calculate its value using our highest non-cappable stat, and even then it's a bit iffy, because that 1467 expertise might not fully become haste from reforging, parts may become crit or mastery. That's why you're overvaluing it.
Someone from the Mr. Robot team, cool. After reading your post I have a side remark regarding your stat weights:
Personally I think (in most circumstances) Exp (and hit) should, at best, be of equal value to our strongest non-capable secondary stat.
I know that we have some more experienced rets here, so I ask if you would agree with my logic?
Pinkcrusader, what would your reasoning be for setting them equal to your strongest non-cappable secondary stat? What are you trying to achieve with that? (note, that has NO snooty undertone, I'm really just curious to the reasoning... but you know how tone of voice gets lost on the internetz)