Anaxie's Totally Revolutionary SoO Retribution T16 BiS & Theorycraft

[Sturmcantor]

With BiS I imagine a Darkmist Vortex proc in collusion with BL can grant a 2second-ish CD on HoW. Obviously it will never be spammable, but as long as its not higher than two GCD's of a CD, "nearly-spamming" it proves to be the way to get higher dps.

By this i mean JUST using HoW during SW other than to use HP

With any gearset HoW's cd is 2 GCDs under SW until you have more than 50% haste. Outside of SW it takes 200% haste to hit a 2 second CD on HoW.

[Saferis]

You can't just use Hammer of Wrath as a HP builder until you have ~200% haste.

What do you propose to use instead, then?

From my knowledge HoW is ranked at highest priority, and if it can be nearly-spammed without wasting 2 GCD's wouldn't that be beneficial?

Only until my OmniCC can actually conjure a timer cooldown on its window pane, I nearly-spam it because i find that using any other spell during that GCD (Unless its a raid cooldown/Execution Sentence/HP ability) proves to be a DPS loss. CS does not nearly come in close comparison to HoW's damage; Exorcism does, but with a substantial enough mastery rating, HoW eventually will pull ahead. I do occasionally use Exo during SW when it's up, but when i can get enough mastery to make waiting an extra half-GCD to use HoW again beneficial, I will.

With bloodlust and a haste (on-use or proc trinket) i find myself nearly-spamming it since i reach a ~2 second CD on HoW. Maybe even less. I currently have 18.5% passive haste; IBW adds about 5%, then BL with 30%.

[Sturmcantor]

If you are using only HoW at a near 2 second CD during SancWrath you are wasting 50% of your globals. Please don't suggest to people that this is a good plan.

You can only use 1 attack per 1 second max anyway, so if you have a choice between

a) 0 - HoW, 1.86 HoW, 3.71 HoW, 5.56 HoW, 7.42 HoW, 8.42 TV, 9.42 HoW, 11.28 HoW, 13.14 HoW, 14.14 TV, 15.14 HoW, 17 HoW, 18.86 HoW, 19.86 TV, 20.86 HoW, 22.72 HoW, 24.58 HoW, 25.58 TV, 26.68 HoW, 28.54 HoW, 29.54 TV

and

b) 0 - HoW, 1 Exo, 2 HoW, 3 J, 4 HoW, 5 TV, 6 HoW, 7 J, 8 HoW, 9 TV, 10 HoW, 11 Exo, 12 HoW, 13 TV, 14 HoW, 15 J, 16 HoW, 17 TV, 18 HoW, 19 J, 20 HoW, 21 TV, 22 HoW, 23 Exo, 24 HoW, 25 TV, 26 HoW, 27 J, 28 HoW, 29 TV, 30 HoW

In a) (what you suggest) you have used 16 HoW and 5 TV under SW. In b) (what I suggest) you have used 16 HoW, 3 Exo, 5 J and 7 TV in 9 seconds. You just lost 3 Exo, 5 J, and 2 TV because the additional 0.14 seconds you are avoiding delaying HoW per use only at the cost of using every global gives you 1 extra HoW over a 30 second time period, which is lost anyway from having to pause to dump holy power with TV.

To be fair that last HoW in b) is very dependant on your latency to get off. So we'll call it gaining 1 HoW for the cost of 3 Exo, 5 J, 2 TV. Numbers from my last Spirit Kings kill put that as a gain of 145k from the HoW and a loss of 204k from the Exos, 265k from the Js, and 269k from the TVs. Net loss of 593k over the course of each cast of SW ignoring things like SoT or fitting a cast of Execution Sentence in (at cost of a J in b) but at cost of an HoW in a). Losing 593k every 180 seconds is a 3300 dps loss from this alone.

Also worth noting that your IBW trinket is doing very little for you here - your passive haste and BL put you over the 50% haste soft cap alone, so all IBW is doing is increasing auto attacks and Censure.

[Deleted]

Really depends on encounter but i've used HA always till i got 4 set.. Just feels better , also had more control over my dps with it.Can you link your armory maybe?

[Floross]

I have a quick question about cooldowns : I'm using SW and here's my usual opener ( at pull ) : Exo-J-CS-Inq+Guardian+Wings-HoW-filler-HoW-filler-HoW-TV-HoW-filler-HoW-ES(if ~2s left on DMC trinket proc, else filler)-HoW-TV-HoW-etc....

This okay ? With fitting an ES in place of a filler so it benefits from as many stacks of Guardian as possible + pot + DMC trinket proc ?

Also since I use a Jade Figurine in there should I delay it until the second 15 seconds of AW ?

[Deleted]

We just got our first wind lord heroic kill and I kinda wrecked dps both on our guild meter and ret only dps :P Landed on 420k in the end, 4piece is just total destruction atm x_x

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-gl...30&e=8553#Rikh - Vengeance showing it's glory as usual aswell :P

[Deleted]

Nice if you get to progress those bosses with 4set It's really good.

[anaxie]

We just got our first wind lord heroic kill and I kinda wrecked dps both on our guild meter and ret only dps :P Landed on 420k in the end, 4piece is just total destruction atm x_x

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-gl...30&e=8553#Rikh - Vengeance showing it's glory as usual aswell :P

I was able to pull 20th something and i died on the final just as final reckless went off with wings and guardian in que. Blademaster one shot me right as he went into reck... lol... still 10 million damage above everyone on Wind lord damage WITHOUT the final reck so +50 million extra.

This fight just shows how overpowered our burst is in comparison to any other class.

It will also be heavily based on pushes/ delays / 3-4 recks/ and of course if it's pushed after the icd has been ticking on trinkets so they are up during it.

It may be... impossible? harder atleast for rets to overtake parses created now because faster kills + 4 set nerf will most certainly cost you wings during reck's. Currently atleast for our attempts and calling delay on first 2nd wave. Everything lined up with rets/mages


Also Rikh. Correct me if I'm wrong but i think mastery > haste on wind lord. Confirm or deny?

I bet mastery wins. Sadly you cannot sim it you can only test because of the sheer burst associated with the phase.

[Saferis]

If you are using only HoW at a near 2 second CD during SancWrath you are wasting 50% of your globals. Please don't suggest to people that this is a good plan.

You can only use 1 attack per 1 second max anyway, so if you have a choice between

a) 0 - HoW, 1.86 HoW, 3.71 HoW, 5.56 HoW, 7.42 HoW, 8.42 TV, 9.42 HoW, 11.28 HoW, 13.14 HoW, 14.14 TV, 15.14 HoW, 17 HoW, 18.86 HoW, 19.86 TV, 20.86 HoW, 22.72 HoW, 24.58 HoW, 25.58 TV, 26.68 HoW, 28.54 HoW, 29.54 TV

and

b) 0 - HoW, 1 Exo, 2 HoW, 3 J, 4 HoW, 5 TV, 6 HoW, 7 J, 8 HoW, 9 TV, 10 HoW, 11 Exo, 12 HoW, 13 TV, 14 HoW, 15 J, 16 HoW, 17 TV, 18 HoW, 19 J, 20 HoW, 21 TV, 22 HoW, 23 Exo, 24 HoW, 25 TV, 26 HoW, 27 J, 28 HoW, 29 TV, 30 HoW

In a) (what you suggest) you have used 16 HoW and 5 TV under SW. In b) (what I suggest) you have used 16 HoW, 3 Exo, 5 J and 7 TV in 9 seconds. You just lost 3 Exo, 5 J, and 2 TV because the additional 0.14 seconds you are avoiding delaying HoW per use only at the cost of using every global gives you 1 extra HoW over a 30 second time period, which is lost anyway from having to pause to dump holy power with TV.

To be fair that last HoW in b) is very dependant on your latency to get off. So we'll call it gaining 1 HoW for the cost of 3 Exo, 5 J, 2 TV. Numbers from my last Spirit Kings kill put that as a gain of 145k from the HoW and a loss of 204k from the Exos, 265k from the Js, and 269k from the TVs. Net loss of 593k over the course of each cast of SW ignoring things like SoT or fitting a cast of Execution Sentence in (at cost of a J in b) but at cost of an HoW in a). Losing 593k every 180 seconds is a 3300 dps loss from this alone.

Also worth noting that your IBW trinket is doing very little for you here - your passive haste and BL put you over the 50% haste soft cap alone, so all IBW is doing is increasing auto attacks and Censure.

I reccomended to use a certain talent and trinket, not rotation, but thanks for your opinion.

I may have been over-exaggerating slightly when i said "nearly-spam"; i didn't mean it literally, but I was trying to put the emphasis on using HoW as much as possible during SW.

Edit: I take back what i said in the second comment. Was concentrating on something else while writing, and dint realize how stupid it was.

[Sturmcantor]

There is no special emphasis on using HoW during SW. It's top priority builder outside of SW and top priority builder inside SW.

[Saferis]

There is no special emphasis on using HoW during SW. It's top priority builder outside of SW and top priority builder inside SW.

I was simply putting the emphasis for the sake of putting emphasis. I guess I've just been excited about finally switching back to wings after a long time with HA. I just got my two piece t14 and have switched back to HA, now, however. As much as i like the original "Zealotry", it won't be as good as SW with the 4 piece, and i currently feel like I'm missing something.

It just irritates me how they now decided to drop the 4 piece in the upcoming patch; 1 min 35 sec cd wings was what i was looking forward to.

Anaxie, there's one question I thought I'd ask: At what percent haste do we stop gemming for haste>str? I know its probably something above 20% or so, but does it also vary upon your current str rating? (For example, if someone had full BiS but 18% haste)

[JeanJacket]

noob question, whats better normal sha of fear axe with the 500 str gem in it, or heroic starshatter?

[Sturmcantor]

There is no set % haste to stop gemming haste at - it depends on your strength/weapon/trinkets/other secondaries.

[rahkarn]

Hey guys, I've been struggling over whether or not to swap jc for engineer. One site I've read says that is an equivalent str boost to blacksmithing and jewelcrafting, but I've heard claims that it is a large dps increase to go engineer, due to its dc aligning perfect to ES.

I tried to sim the difference, but I only get errors when I try. Does anyone have some numbers for the difference?

---------- Post added 2012-11-21 at 01:39 AM ----------

noob question, whats better normal sha of fear axe with the 500 str gem in it, or heroic starshatter?

I'd like to know this as well. As I understand it weapon dps is the best increase we can get, so if I had to guess I would say starshatter is better.

[mels]

Question, I currently have Heroic Starshatter and Normal Shin'Ka, Execution of Dominion WITH Legendary Gem, is Heroic Starshatter still better than Normal Sha of Fear weapon even with a gem?

[Deleted]

Cruel punishment, writing that, is.

[JeanJacket]

Question, I currently have Heroic Starshatter and Normal Shin'Ka, Execution of Dominion WITH Legendary Gem, is Heroic Starshatter still better than Normal Sha of Fear weapon even with a gem?

I would like to know this as well since I am in the same situation and can only afford 1 dancing steel enchant.

[Saferis]

There is no set % haste to stop gemming haste at - it depends on your strength/weapon/trinkets/other secondaries.

Well we are gemming for haste because the value of strength is not yet at double of that of haste (Since gems give twice as much haste than str), right? So shouldn't reaching a certain % of haste degrade its value in terms of strength? I've seen a few sims of different people, and they each had different ratios of haste-strength. Some had ratios with which strength was double the value, so wouldnt that person not gem for haste?

My thoughts would be that after a certain, uh, "plateau" lets call it; haste's value decreases somewhat "exponentially", dependant on your current value. Other than of course haste proc/on-use trinkets and maybe a specific weapon, don't other variables come into play here?

I would like to know this as well since I am in the same situation and can only afford 1 dancing steel enchant.

Look at the strength gains, and compare the two weapon damages. Starshatter is good for the expertise gain, but a Normal Shin'Ka might pull ahead given its superiority through strength (mainly because of the legendary gem). If you're currently struggling with reaching the exp cap, Starshatter may be better just to reach that cap.

[Deleted]

Hello Anaxie,

was wondering since the start of t14 since haste has such value over str isnt it worth considering using tier shoulders and either nullification greathelm or the legs from will of the emperor even if they are lower ilvl but higher haste value in our bis list?

Does anyone have a character profile with bis gear and reforge just to see the stats thanks

[anaxie]

i suggest using Tier shoulders IF you own a Heroic Kings' guard chestplate. You should be able to get all heroic items except H:E: neck, Dread shadow ring, H:T15Helm, H:T15 Shoulders and hit overcapping should not be an issue even for draenei.
When you decide to take the Dread ring and Heroic Tier helm is when you need to be ready to swap to misshaped / H:T15 Chestplate.

Also sidenote doing some rough napkin math of the stats... more specifically HIT items will gain with the +8 ilvl VP upgrade system. For draenei atleast you should be fine taking all normal items on list + swapping everspark H elite neck for congealed neck off Garalon + 180 Crit to cloak or if tailor just enjoy that.

This pretty much leaves you at less then .1 over hit which is fairly easy to ignore considering how bloating stats are currently.

Non draenei are perfectly fine taking H everspark and turning it into a 524 item. You might need to replace a lightning jade in the assault belt with a quick suns if overcapping enough that most of the hit is wasted. This is factoring in the VP upgrade system obviously.

---------- Post added 2012-11-22 at 01:15 AM ----------

Hello Anaxie,

was wondering since the start of t14 since haste has such value over str isnt it worth considering using tier shoulders and either nullification greathelm or the legs from will of the emperor even if they are lower ilvl but higher haste value in our bis list?

Does anyone have a character profile with bis gear and reforge just to see the stats thanks

Those could be in the bis list... if you want a huge drop in strength and 11% hit.

---------- Post added 2012-11-22 at 01:18 AM ----------

noob question, whats better normal sha of fear axe with the 500 str gem in it, or heroic starshatter?

Starshatter H:
1294 str , 20413 wpn damage

Shin'ka N:
1223 str, 19,303 wpn damage
+ 500 str gem

Shin'ka +429str VS Starshatter +1,110 wpn damage

Take starshatter

Also VP upgrade that shit in 5.1 and it will almost be 21900-22k top end. mmmmm delicious.

---------- Post added 2012-11-22 at 01:39 AM ----------

I was simply putting the emphasis for the sake of putting emphasis. I guess I've just been excited about finally switching back to wings after a long time with HA. I just got my two piece t14 and have switched back to HA, now, however. As much as i like the original "Zealotry", it won't be as good as SW with the 4 piece, and i currently feel like I'm missing something.

It just irritates me how they now decided to drop the 4 piece in the upcoming patch; 1 min 35 sec cd wings was what i was looking forward to.

Anaxie, there's one question I thought I'd ask: At what percent haste do we stop gemming for haste>str? I know its probably something above 20% or so, but does it also vary upon your current str rating? (For example, if someone had full BiS but 18% haste)

Getting higher ilvl wpns will inflate rating stats. if haste is losing value it's because of the weapon. I wouldn't be surprized in T15 getting a 26-28k Top end weapon if Mastery starts climbing above strength too.

If it's not the weapon it's likely the lack of 4set.