Anaxie's Totally Revolutionary SoO Retribution T16 BiS & Theorycraft

[anaxie]

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...ye/details/95/
Here is your guilld's damage to Essence of Anima for the entire night. You are losing to a Mistweaver Monk. I understand some guilds run the same DPS on every boss regardless if it's a good comp or not. Just don't pretend that Ret is a "extremely viable" DPS class for Ra Den.

If you were to talk about Rets being a good single target class for Ra Den and we bring a decent raid CD, that is a much more believable story.

You are aware this was our first night of progression? You are aware early wipes happen when learning? I SURELY hope you are also aware that I said I dont dps the first spawn that has lust and trinkets up for people nuking. I'm going to kill it Monday or next week Wrath spamming. It's going to happen so deal with it. It's viable for melee heavy guilds.

Let me make this in big bold letters for you to read. Most guilds who are sub 10 in their region do not have the ability to class stack. Believe it or not we don't require mandatory alts either. Alot of guilds don't and this is a workaround for more Anima orb dps rets can use in their raids for progression.

[Deleted]

Having your ret spam Wrath is indeed viable if you need hybrid ranged/melee. windwalkers, rogues, ferals and frosts can do similar.

[Zoaxlis]

Charles, all I think Anaxie is trying to say is that Ret having the ability to damage orbs without having to move out and mess up the Debuff passing it gives Raids a incentive to bring a Ret over other Melee DPS. Especially now that ret Single target dps after the 5.3 Sword of Light buff is Very solid. Seeing that during progression dying due to orbs hitting the boss is the main reason to wiping, having a melee be able to effectively DPS the orbs can be pretty huge, no matter if you are lower damage than everyone else.

[anaxie]

Charles, all I think Anaxie is trying to say is that Ret having the ability to damage orbs without having to move out and mess up the Debuff passing it gives Raids a incentive to bring a Ret over other Melee DPS. Especially now that ret Single target dps after the 5.3 Sword of Light buff is Very solid. Seeing that during progression dying due to orbs hitting the boss is the main reason to wiping, having a melee be able to effectively DPS the orbs can be pretty huge, no matter if you are lower damage than everyone else.

It's worse then that Zoax, we are so melee heavy they soak in the rotation too. Not like it's that hard <it's not>.

Think we are doing 7 melee and 6 healers or some shit. But we have no issues it's mistakes killing us damage have been fine every pull since we did the Symbiosis / couple class respecs.

---------- Post added 2013-05-23 at 08:12 AM ----------

One minor detail I forgot to mentino about those logs I linked. I didn't start doing symbiosis until 9-10 pulls in. ranged have 1st orb of 25 pulls and 10 FULL boss pulls on me. Oh shit guess I'm not hanging with the mistweavers anymore.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

So, symbiosis Wrath... does it proc our meta or would you want to swap meta gem for that (it's only like 1200-1500g on my server to swap it).
I'm actually curious enough to play around with it... :P

[Deleted]

I follow this thread alot, And i have yet to find a definitive answer

IS hc SPARK better than HC PRIMO, im fully aware you get a lot more haste from spark. But the on pull burst from a the hc primo trinket is surley better with the stacks you can build up(RPPM), Especially when your sitting at 14k+ haste.

Would be great to get some feed back(the constructive type)

[anaxie]

You are, attempt 10 --> end of raid: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...s=8883&e=15227 x]


That being said, Ret wrathing is entirely "viable" in terms of using less ranged, but it's by no mean a valid substitute to a ranged. Ra-den is far less "Stack ranged, use 3-4 melee" heavy now though with the ilvl upgrades and everyone having massive weapons/Trinkets.

That being said, it's true that it's misleading when you say rets are good on the orbs, because in reality they're not compared to any properly played ranged, and guilds getting there in a few weeks may have their rets use this argument for no good.

Which is why I stressed that it's the alternative to melee heavy rosters that need to find a way to make up the damage. The only thing at the point in the game you can wipe to on Ra-den are general fuck ups and orbs hitting boss. DPS on the boss shouldn't even be an issue with all the gear. Gear is exactly the reason we are able to get away with 7 melee / 6 heal and potentially kill it so long as general mistakes don't cause a wipe.

---------- Post added 2013-05-23 at 01:50 PM ----------

So, symbiosis Wrath... does it proc our meta or would you want to swap meta gem for that (it's only like 1200-1500g on my server to swap it).
I'm actually curious enough to play around with it... :P

You are going to judge the orb too for double Jep which should set off a few capacitates. You don't exclusively wrath on the fight. It's just for Animas.

---------- Post added 2013-05-23 at 02:22 PM ----------

Omg Dakeshi I see that 549 agility spear. Holla man lol. How much crit does 1800 agi give you like only .3% lol? I'd prolly do same thing if it dropped n take it tho.

---------- Post added 2013-05-23 at 02:30 PM ----------

Bear I am loving that tabard and weapon with that armor set unmogged. Pretty legit.

---------- Post added 2013-05-23 at 02:31 PM ----------

I follow this thread alot, And i have yet to find a definitive answer

IS hc SPARK better than HC PRIMO, im fully aware you get a lot more haste from spark. But the on pull burst from a the hc primo trinket is surley better with the stacks you can build up(RPPM), Especially when your sitting at 14k+ haste.

Would be great to get some feed back(the constructive type)

Nelda says it's great at high haste and Solscra in Supermassive puts up some pretty good numbers using Primrodius 535upgraded. I think it's down to preference and which one is higher ilvl that you own at this point.

[Deleted]

OK cool. Was under the impression that there might not be much dps in it and since im running with normal primo and normal TF spark, going through my logs Primo just seems to have a bit more about it , Regardless still haven't seen a feather drop in jikun! and that trinket isthe the game changer(even though ive posted ok ranks without it)

thanks again

---------- Post added 2013-05-23 at 03:49 PM ----------

And also the HIGH risk HOW>cs>HOW during wings is awesome when it goes in our favour!

[Deleted]

Omg Dakeshi I see that 549 agility spear. Holla man lol. How much crit does 1800 agi give you like only .3% lol? I'd prolly do same thing if it dropped n take it tho.

549 versus 543 gives:

1917 Agi
162 Sta
157 Expertise (0.46)
870 Haste (2.05%)
398 Melee DPS
1147 Melee Min Damage
1720 Melee Max Damage


vs


1868 Str
830 Mastery (1.39)

the 400 bonus weapon DPS and bonus stats likely outweigh the STR loss.

edit: this is after reforging, upgrading and gemming.

[Deleted]

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Inq Timer

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Wings Timer


I have quite a few more if you'd like them. Ones for Feather, Spark, Relic, 2pc t15, 4 pce t15, and a rotation one that's pretty simple, and works similar to regular action bars, just greys out spells on cds. I also have one that track raid CDs that are up like AM, rally, etc. I have most of them disabled other than my AM and other AMs because I didn't need them at the time, but you can turn them on and off as you please. Let me know if you want any of those.

thanks . will try these 2 out when I get home. and yeah sure, post the others. ill try them out too

[Neldarie]

Both trinkets have high value of RNG towards them (talisman and spark). Fight has to be pretty lengthy in order for spark to have a chance too. I doub't there is an obvious winner between the 2. Use what you have access to

[anaxie]

Both trinkets have high value of RNG towards them (talisman and spark). Fight has to be pretty lengthy in order for spark to have a chance too. I doub't there is an obvious winner between the 2. Use what you have access to

Pretty much. Rage beter when doing solo content anyhow. CANCELAURAMOUNTAMG. the technology... it's just not there yet to mount as a troll.

[Fiddlesnarf]

Finally got my 4peice, had a question for you guys, with your 4peice how much, if any, do you change your rotation?

[Deleted]

Finally got my 4peice, had a question for you guys, with your 4peice how much, if any, do you change your rotation?

Anaxie, if you haven't already, please add comments on this to the OP, if only to just stop people, both newb and regular, to ask this question so often. it's getting really annoying and if people would read the last 10 pages they would know.

just for you, snarf: the rotation doesn't really change. if you got a 4P proc, try to avoid using CS to prevent clipping. it's okay to use TV below 5 HP if you have 4P up and only CS ready. apart from that, only other big change is AW, where some people prefer to fish for 4P procs by using CS over HoW. it goes CS-HoW-CS-TV-repeat. if your first CS procs 4P, replace your second CS with exorcism to benefit from 2P.

[Spazzodin]

You are aware this was our first night of progression? You are aware early wipes happen when learning? I SURELY hope you are also aware that I said I dont dps the first spawn that has lust and trinkets up for people nuking. I'm going to kill it Monday or next week Wrath spamming. It's going to happen so deal with it. It's viable for melee heavy guilds.

Let me make this in big bold letters for you to read. Most guilds who are sub 10 in their region do not have the ability to class stack. Believe it or not we don't require mandatory alts either. Alot of guilds don't and this is a workaround for more Anima orb dps rets can use in their raids for progression.

How many Druids do you run? Rogues? Do you guys run a Feral and a DK? Maybe Feral death coil spam > Wrath spam? Not sure how you can call something viable when you've tested it a short amount of time, and regardless of not damaging the first orb, fall behind a Healer.

Does the symbi Wrath scale? (I've never used it)

Again, turning a possible discussion and theorycraft into "viable" or its a fact symbiosis'ing your Rets is a overall net gain. *slow clap*

[anaxie]

How many Druids do you run? Rogues? Do you guys run a Feral and a DK? Maybe Feral death coil spam > Wrath spam? Not sure how you can call something viable when you've tested it a short amount of time, and regardless of not damaging the first orb, fall behind a Healer.

Does the symbi Wrath scale? (I've never used it)

Again, turning a possible discussion and theorycraft into "viable" or its a fact symbiosis'ing your Rets is a overall net gain. *slow clap*

People seem to keep misunderstanding the log when i started doing symbiosis. Funfact on most pulls I was within only about 15% behind mages. And yes Wrath does scale quite well infact highest wrath crit I had the night was around 450k for a 1.3 sec cast time. it helps our raid, if it doesn't sound like a good idea to anyone else don't do it.

Simple concept. If you don't like it or if your raid doesn't struggle to fill the ranged kindly shut up. It's starting to get a little bit old and I doubt any rets get the wrong idea by what I ment if they are doing fucking Ra-den.

[Spazzodin]

People seem to keep misunderstanding the log when i started doing symbiosis. Funfact on most pulls I was within only about 15% behind mages. And yes Wrath does scale quite well infact highest wrath crit I had the night was around 450k for a 1.3 sec cast time. it helps our raid, if it doesn't sound like a good idea to anyone else don't do it.

Simple concept. If you don't like it or if your raid doesn't struggle to fill the ranged kindly shut up. It's starting to get a little bit old and I doubt any rets get the wrong idea by what I ment if they are doing fucking Ra-den.

Not sure why you're taking offense when I simply pointed out something and asked a few questions. Also, any melee would understand the struggle to do damage on anima, hell anyone watching a video can tell that melee suck for Ra-den overall. Not just rets.

[anaxie]

Not sure why you're taking offense when I simply pointed out something and asked a few questions. Also, any melee would understand the struggle to do damage on anima, hell anyone watching a video can tell that melee suck for Ra-den overall. Not just rets.

I may of misread the final part of your post to be condescending. Looks different now that it's later in the day. WoL needs to fix ra-den posting huge overall logs just annoys me.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

For me using a 530 (2/2 upgraded normal :< ) spark I hate it... the procrate SUCKS balls I'm talking maybe getting 3 full in a 6min fight, if a hc tf prim trinket shows up I'll most likely grab it, got 50% haste raidbuffed now so it should have an impact. Most of all though I want our guild to start getting 2h str weps dropping from heroic... started on Lei Shen last night and only one of our str dpsers that use 2handers has one and it was a coined council (535) for our other ret.
Whichever moron in blizzard that decided that it was a good idea to put weapons on shared boss loot tables should be stripped naked and forced to say sorry to everyone on stage at the upcoming blizzcon... rings, necks, cloaks and other "unimportant" item slots can be random stats, fucking random boss and whatever... having your biggest % upgrade from shared boss loot is terrible planned...

[anaxie]

Saw a 2/13H ret on my realm with a 541 unupgraded Bo-Ris. Good times.