1. #3421
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    DS still gonna be too low should be 100% bonus then we can call it game.
    That's what I think should happen, but they'd probably nerf us somewhere else.

  2. #3422
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    Also the proc rate is still 25% on finisher vs current 40% on CS. Way to fucking low

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-20 at 03:12 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Neldarie View Post
    Personally I rather have the 50% increased dmg removed and make it a passive proc like Sudden Doom used? to be. With haste levels of next tier every GCD will be precious.
    Nail on the head.

  3. #3423
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revvo View Post
    How often do you dip below 30% though. Current SS is a nice thing to abosrb damage when you KNOW damage is coming.
    exactly what revvo said, with the current SS, for a fight like tortos i can LITERALLY take 0 damage, that's pretty significant. as of now, i RARELY dip below 50% yet alone 30%, id like to see it's value changed to proc at maybe 15 to 20% hp and give that much of a shield and still keep a slightly nerfed version of what it is now. this would allow some protection on others if you want, AND a small saving grace. then again as i said before we cant ask for everything all the time :/

    i do like the sudden doom idea for our t16 4 piece bonus someone threw out earlier could be interesting, but i still wouldn't throw away a AOE heavy tier bonus for what seems to be a aoe/cleave heavy raid.

  4. #3424
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    -I get this feeling that other then damage adjustment's we won't see a whole lot of changes to 4 PC. This very well could wind up as a Divine Purpose DPS raid. The lower cooldown guardian leans towards this with extra burst outside the normal rotation. I'm not sure how often mastery will come into play but if we can end up getting the core roation down to spamming TVS and DS that proc off eachother we we may be looking at some considerable dps. Especially during our NON cooldown based dps timeframes with the new guardian CD and trinkt mechanics. If the legendary is infact a 600 ilvl wpn the weapon ALONE will be 52-54k weapon damage.. That is my fucking weapon damage now with all my strength combined.

    IF this happens. we will be taking Divine purpose. HA is out of the question if 4 set remains how it is. Pray it's a mastery/haste tier. Things are about to get nasty.

    Keep in mind it is NOT solely a 24k weapon damage gain. No no no. 5% from art of war AND 30% from our base core talents The SoL talent alone turns the weapon <if it is infact a weapon> into an extra 31,000 weapon damage.

    Is everyone getting that tingling feeling I am?

    If we do NOT see legendary weapons I'm pretty sure the ilvl 470-475 HTF 2/2 weapons will make a considerable impact.

    My only concern <and it should be noted is that Divine purpose TV casts will waste potential Divine storm procs. It makes me with the shit was auto fire even more and shows us SOME flaws in the design surrounding the bonus.

    But then the flip side is if they were auto fire I doubt they could proc divine purpose. We may be just delt a huge RNG hand that we have to deal with according to the scenario , single target or aoe. Unless of course Divine storm gets buff to be Equal to templars verdict so the ability can be forgotten completely leading to a far less clunky as fuck rotation going forward.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-20 at 05:00 AM ----------

    Unless I'm wrong current DS should be hitting for 250% if you factor in armor and inqu as if it was a physical hit. If they buffed it to say 65%/70% AND put the proc rate at a flat 40% I think we may of hit the nail on the head.

    This would also lead to TV being removed from action bars for the tier and Divine Purpose 100% mandatory if it isn't already from bonus / talent synergy.

    So new plan push for 65% additonal damage and 35% chance on finisher just so it mirrors Crusader strike. It's a tuning adjustment we likely will get. I feel arguments that at 50% it just barely below TV by around 5% they may aswell gut the ability entirely and streamline DS as the new premier ability and bonus that defines us for the tier.

    Doesn't matter if anyone wants it or not the Blender Stormadins are coming back. This time they are set to ludicris speed. Spin like a fucking top. Is that paladin bladestorming? NOPE better!
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-06-20 at 05:06 AM.

  5. #3425
    Stood in the Fire Neldarie's Avatar
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    Ye it all depends on the wep dmg ranges will be like next tier. But if it follows current progression it will be Haste>Crit>Mastery (with goak changes and current set bonus loses).
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  6. #3426
    Quote Originally Posted by Neldarie View Post
    Ye it all depends on the wep dmg ranges will be like next tier. But if it follows current progression it will be Haste>Crit>Mastery (with goak changes and current set bonus loses).
    I'd bet you that mastery will always overtake crit unless your weapon's ilvl is below your current ilvl.

  7. #3427
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    I'd bet you that mastery will always overtake crit unless your weapon's ilvl is below your current ilvl.
    Keep betting because it's not the case by simply looking at t14/t15 numbers adding meta (that stays = increases crit), sha-touched gem (that we lost = -crit), SoL buff (that we recently recieved = +mastery) and adding in goak changes (+crit) (talking single target btw not AE or other double dipping +%dmg taken bs).

    Bottomline: Mastery as a stat is just piss poor in scaling with ilvl (for ret).
    Last edited by Neldarie; 2013-06-20 at 07:21 AM.
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  8. #3428
    Hi mates! Today i have changed my sockets from 80str/160haste to 160exp/160haste ! So i have 6% more mastery , no haste loss and become a little bit crit BUT loose 640str! Before i simmed my stat weights and exp was higher than str! So what you think is this stupid what i have done or can i give it a try today on farmraid?

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  9. #3429
    Quote Originally Posted by Flowe View Post
    Hi mates! Today i have changed my sockets from 80str/160haste to 160exp/160haste ! So i have 6% more mastery , no haste loss and become a little bit crit BUT loose 640str! Before i simmed my stat weights and exp was higher than str! So what you think is this stupid what i have done or can i give it a try today on farmraid?

    Armorylink: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...lôwe/advanced
    You did that because Mastery simmed higher than strength, so you gemmed expertise/haste gems so you could reforge expertise on your gear to mastery (or not reforge mastery to expertise). I did the same about 1.5 week ago, barely noticed a difference though.
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  10. #3430
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    Made some gem and reforge changes today as well, 10.1k mastery with might. I'll check back after lei shen progress and see if I noticed any difference (will nerd my logs).
    went up around 1k mastery for roughly 360 str loss and got much closer to exp cap as well so gained some stats one way or another anyways.

    Still have str/haste gems in some pieces because I can't reforge away more exp and I'm already slightly over exp cap (like 40 rating or so) my gear is good (apart from the disgusting hit sword) so it's easy to make changes
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  11. #3431
    Quite different, but a very improtant topic: i see nothing changed with T16 about having 2 x hit and 2 x exp on slots. Melee are in a big disadvantage here - we got capable stats on 4 of 5 tier slots, where casters like locks got 2hit items on 5 slots. Thats why we are floating over caps in hundreds of wasted stats through all raid content.

    Maybe post this somewhere on forums or GC tweets: Ret in HC gear got 7.35% exp 7.97% hit from a t16 tier alone so 15.32% capable stats from 4 items with 15 slots available, where warlock or mage got 8.3%hit, so they have a plenty room for items with hit. Especially when more than a half items got hit on them.

  12. #3432
    Quote Originally Posted by Pawelek View Post
    Quite different, but a very improtant topic: i see nothing changed with T16 about having 2 x hit and 2 x exp on slots. Melee are in a big disadvantage here - we got capable stats on 4 of 5 tier slots, where casters like locks got 2hit items on 5 slots. Thats why we are floating over caps in hundreds of wasted stats through all raid content.

    Maybe post this somewhere on forums or GC tweets: Ret in HC gear got 7.35% exp 7.97% hit from a t16 tier alone so 15.32% capable stats from 4 items with 15 slots available, where warlock or mage got 8.3%hit, so they have a plenty room for items with hit. Especially when more than a half items got hit on them.
    I believe these items are just placeholders and can and will change. you'll notice they're just scaled up versions of T15, or at least they were last build.

    in general, regard everything you encounter on the PTR with a distrusting eye until it's put to live.

  13. #3433
    Quote Originally Posted by Don Vito Corleone View Post
    I believe these items are just placeholders and can and will change. you'll notice they're just scaled up versions of T15, or at least they were last build.

    in general, regard everything you encounter on the PTR with a distrusting eye until it's put to live.
    That's what I noticed as well, same model, same stats, same gem slots. They probably just used it to show the set bonuses.
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  14. #3434
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    anaxie, while i was testing the new 4 piece the only time any proc would be wasted with DP is IF you use the DS proc WITH dp up as well, this may be a bug but i dont know. as it stands we would only waste procs like that on pure AOE where we just spam DS.
    As for replacing TV with DS permanently, i don't see it being a problem as long as they keep the damage bonus on the tier set.
    and yes, the current T16 is just place holder with the bonuses on the last set, we still have no idea what stats are on it(PLEASE GOD! NO MORE HIT! 11% WAY MORE THAN ENOUGH!) i also hope it looks cool too, almost had a heart attack over how horrendous the season 14 set looked like and thought that was the t16 set, i nearly cried.

  15. #3435
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reghame View Post
    anaxie, while i was testing the new 4 piece the only time any proc would be wasted with DP is IF you use the DS proc WITH dp up as well, this may be a bug but i dont know. as it stands we would only waste procs like that on pure AOE where we just spam DS.
    As for replacing TV with DS permanently, i don't see it being a problem as long as they keep the damage bonus on the tier set.
    and yes, the current T16 is just place holder with the bonuses on the last set, we still have no idea what stats are on it(PLEASE GOD! NO MORE HIT! 11% WAY MORE THAN ENOUGH!) i also hope it looks cool too, almost had a heart attack over how horrendous the season 14 set looked like and thought that was the t16 set, i nearly cried.
    That bug needs reported and DS needs a extra bump to fully replace tv single target.
    I feel like if they want to do this bonus a que / charges should be applied somewhat how raging blow charges for warriors work. Right now we have a talent we are likely to be using and the set bonus working against eachother. Our charges need to stack.

    They need to confirm what is going to take priority on usage too. 4 set or DP? Which will be consumed first?

    Also I mispoke about replace DS with TV. The bonus is only applied to the PROC divine storm. This could turn out quite clunky. My head fucking hurts.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-06-20 at 06:02 PM.

  16. #3436
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    That bug needs reported and DS needs a extra bump to fully replace tv single target.
    I feel like if they want to do this bonus a que / charges should be applied somewhat how raging blow charges for warriors work. Right now we have a talent we are likely to be using and the set bonus working against eachother. Our charges need to stack.

    They need to confirm what is going to take priority on usage too. 4 set or DP? Which will be consumed first?

    Also I mispoke about replace DS with TV. The bonus is only applied to the PROC divine storm. This could turn out quite clunky. My head fucking hurts.
    Was confused about the ds/tv replacement thing. Thanks for clarifying.
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  17. #3437
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    That bug needs reported and DS needs a extra bump to fully replace tv single target.
    I feel like if they want to do this bonus a que / charges should be applied somewhat how raging blow charges for warriors work. Right now we have a talent we are likely to be using and the set bonus working against eachother. Our charges need to stack.

    They need to confirm what is going to take priority on usage too. 4 set or DP? Which will be consumed first?

    Also I mispoke about replace DS with TV. The bonus is only applied to the PROC divine storm. This could turn out quite clunky. My head fucking hurts.
    4-set should be used first if they're both active and you're using Divine Storm. Proc rate should be a bit higher imo but maybe 25% will work.

    In terms of our single-target damage, however, I think the better solution is buffing our 2-set to 10%.

  18. #3438
    Stood in the Fire Neldarie's Avatar
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    Agreed. I don't really think the new 2set is enough to just lose current 4set outright for.
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  19. #3439
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neldarie View Post
    Agreed. I don't really think the new 2set is enough to just lose current 4set outright for.
    Of course it isn't current 2 set double dips hand of light damage increasing it twice. Would new AoW double dip? it's very easy tho. 150% holy damage swirl with a lower proc frequencey and extra gcd OR a 275% holy damage strike with one GCD and nearly DOUBLE proc frequency. Let's not forget the impact of Seal of truth procs and the Mastery damage from a Holy TV vs DS. it's pretty far behind currently unless it's a significant add fight. Essentially it means over a great deal of the first month or 2 of progression you will be better off keeping and swapping between TWO different sets of tier gear. That is fucking awful design.

    It doesn't make me excited to get my new tier set like I have been for the entirety of the expansion. Infact I'm inclined to pass on everything unless we are looking at a significant add fight outside nazgrim and Garrosh.

    Most importantly let's remember DS is a NORMALIZED that is a 3.3 speed whirlwind. TV is NOT normalized so your weapon damage on your character sheet is untouched. If you know anything about ret you know how significant a dps drop .3 Speed on a strike is. it's several THOUSANDS in weapon damage at this point.


    For a comparison on just how much damage we are losing lets simply go with our bread and butter. HOLY TV + Crusader strike VS Normal TV and 150% DS. I mean we have to compare 2 GCD's afterall. It's only fair.

    This proc HAS to be put off the GCD. I cannot stress this enough
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-06-20 at 08:11 PM.

  20. #3440
    Isn't the proc rate outer shit too? I mean it's not really 40% vs 25%, isn't it rather 40% every ~3.3 seconds vs 25% every ~ 7-8 seconds?
    Last edited by Meanor; 2013-06-20 at 09:15 PM.

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