Anaxie's Totally Revolutionary SoO Retribution T16 BiS & Theorycraft

[Solsacra]

sorry, i must have missed the part where you asked for evidence, i can't find it, care to point where the question was posed? looks to me like you jumped in for the sole intention of trolling.

[Charleslol]

sorry, i must have missed the part where you asked for evidence, i can't find it, care to point where the question was posed? looks to me like you jumped in for the sole intention of trolling.

Where is your evidence?

[Krekko]

Thread is open again, no mud slinging and keep the discussion moving forward and civilized please.

All requests for supplemental information shall be asked in an appropriate manner and you shall treat your fellow posters with respect - Krekko 32:95

[anaxie]

It's this attitude that makes you annoying Anaxie. You assume too much. When will you learn rank 1 parses mean absolutely nothing? You keep coming back here tier after tier and proclaim yourself to be the God of Ret Paladins. Why? Because you get a few rank 1 parses?

It's sad that EJ died because you could go there for information and not have to deal with egos.

likewise, I find you annoying because all you do is come here and park your whaaambulance

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You can say I'm ignorant all you want, you can all turn and attack me, but I'm just curious as how you can have a theory-crafting discussion without any links to logs or evidence as even a point of discussion. I never once said "Mastery was wrong", all I asked was to show any form of evidence yet you result to name calling. Stay small.

We have our own way of throwing around ideas which suits us you don't enjoy how we do it blacklist the thread cutie

[Spazzodin]

Thread is open again, no mud slinging and keep the discussion moving forward and civilized please.

All requests for supplemental information shall be asked in an appropriate manner and you shall treat your fellow posters with respect - Krekko 32:95

I'm curious as to how "Where is your evidence?" is not an appropriate manner. This isn't Kindergarten and I'd like to think that most in this thread are adults.

But, so be it.

Anaxie, do you have any World of Logs parses or Simulation Warcraft links to support this discussion of Mastery vs Haste with T16 for the 5.4 PTR? If so, I would love a chance to take a look at them! Thanks.

[Tanyn]

If we switch out the Asgorathian Blood Seal and Bubble-burst Bracers for Bloodclaw Band and Bracers of Blind Hatred to utilize some more Exp/Mastery gems instead of Str/Mastery gems we would see a -480 Str, +1.84% Mastery, +.75% Crit, -1.92% Haste difference. Depending on the weights might be something to consider? All depends on the actual stat weights. Not arguing with the BiS list you have out there just seeing if there's any alternatives.

[anaxie]

480 str and 830ish haste beats 450mast n 450 crit IMOsounds like your missing stats lost n gained

[Killmour]

For progression, I'll be going with the haste stack setup and using SW on most fights still. Boss damage will still be very important, and I've had the most success on ptr using SW so far. DP can be great for parses, and I have a feeling that will be the main talent people use to parse with on add fights, but parses almost always are about gaming fights and especially this coming tier will be about who gets the most procs and who can game the fight the most to let them aoe the most.

Be smart about your choices, if you are trying to progress and adds are dying quickly, it's not worth sacrificing boss damage to play like a slime. If it's farm and your raid does not mind, do whatever.

[anaxie]

For progression, I'll be going with the haste stack setup and using SW on most fights still. Boss damage will still be very important, and I've had the most success on ptr using SW so far. DP can be great for parses, and I have a feeling that will be the main talent people use to parse with on add fights, but parses almost always are about gaming fights and especially this coming tier will be about who gets the most procs and who can game the fight the most to let them aoe the most.

Be smart about your choices, if you are trying to progress and adds are dying quickly, it's not worth sacrificing boss damage to play like a slime. If it's farm and your raid does not mind, do whatever.

I was thinking about this too how should do nice damage with the incoming mastery. Static trinkets help keep how damage high And predictable esp on pull. I'm sure while using tisr16 a h won should be a huge upgrade to a huge hit

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Posti



I think its mostly about maxing new won an do 4set synergy

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Omg posting from phone. is fucking annoying

[Revvo]

For progression, I'll be going with the haste stack setup and using SW on most fights still. Boss damage will still be very important, and I've had the most success on ptr using SW so far. DP can be great for parses, and I have a feeling that will be the main talent people use to parse with on add fights, but parses almost always are about gaming fights and especially this coming tier will be about who gets the most procs and who can game the fight the most to let them aoe the most.

Be smart about your choices, if you are trying to progress and adds are dying quickly, it's not worth sacrificing boss damage to play like a slime. If it's farm and your raid does not mind, do whatever.

Yeah I'll be doing this as well. If anyone remembers HHorridon progression, DP was nice for cleaving, but SW singe targeting the adds was probably better for killing it. I feel that's how next teir will be as well.

[anaxie]

If u aren't using dp or not making the most of our tier sticking with sw u nay aswell just keep t15 and grab trinkets wpns n offpieces couple mastery slots n 580 won make holy TVs way more regarded then now

Edit this phone auto spell shit is gonna make me throw it

I.a sub t15 in a list n see whats happens stats wise we already say we are gcd locked

[Skulldancer]

Hey Lets keep it real..... We need to appreciate Revvo, Anaxie, Solsacra and the rest who donate time and there mind's to people like me TRY to be on the cutting edge of Ret DPS. Its obvious that they want to help us. Not trying to be on anyone's d!ck or kissin @$$..... Just keeping it real. The people who complain arent contributing NOTHING to help.

[Mcbenchpress]

@Solsacra- hows the playstyle with only 30% haste? Do you feel yourself sitting on dead gcd's due to the lower haste or does the combat cycle stay pretty smooth? How's your uptime on the exo debuff via the 2pc? I'm really looking forward to our new gemming/reforging methods for next tier, but I want to get all the information I can before I commit to it. The easy math shows that our new emphasis on weapon damage and finishers is really going to cater to mastery (even more so now in T15), but haste has been reliable so far in MoP. Granted, the DS bonus and DP change things in favor of a HoL based build and our HP cycle (inq refresh to inq refresh) is doubling, allowing us more finishers between buff refreshes.

I don't have the time to test much during this PTR cycle, so asking questions is the best I can do these days.

[Solsacra]

@Solsacra- hows the playstyle with only 30% haste? Do you feel yourself sitting on dead gcd's due to the lower haste or does the combat cycle stay pretty smooth? How's your uptime on the exo debuff via the 2pc? I'm really looking forward to our new gemming/reforging methods for next tier, but I want to get all the information I can before I commit to it. The easy math shows that our new emphasis on weapon damage and finishers is really going to cater to mastery (even more so now in T15), but haste has been reliable so far in MoP. Granted, the DS bonus and DP change things in favor of a HoL based build and our HP cycle (inq refresh to inq refresh) is doubling, allowing us more finishers between buff refreshes.

I don't have the time to test much during this PTR cycle, so asking questions is the best I can do these days.

The playstyle isn't very different, the rotation is slightly slower - but not by as much as one might think. you wont find yourself sitting on your hands much, if at all, perhaps only once every 15-20 seconds will you have a wait period longer than say, a second (on average). i opted for the 30.1-30.4% haste range to allow for the 13th 'tick' of hammer of wrath while under the effects of SW, since you only really receive the 14th tick at 40% haste. i found it best to stack mastery for the opening burst and following CD cycles. your sustained dps will drop a bit, not so much that you'll fall far behind a haste build, its strength really comes from making your CD's that much stronger, which honestly thats what the spec is about at the moment. certain fights it will perform very well, and others your better off going with haste. i'd say its just up to preference honestly, if you have atleast ~545 ilvl. managing the exo debuff is how ive always handled it, the uptime difference is not noticeable. still the basic CS>judge>exo rotation if the debuff is up, if not exo>CS>judge.

[Revvo]

The playstyle isn't very different, the rotation is slightly slower - but not by as much as one might think. you wont find yourself sitting on your hands much, if at all, perhaps only once every 15-20 seconds will you have a wait period longer than say, a second (on average). i opted for the 30.1-30.4% haste range to allow for the 13th 'tick' of hammer of wrath while under the effects of SW, since you only really receive the 14th tick at 40% haste. i found it best to stack mastery for the opening burst and following CD cycles. your sustained dps will drop a bit, not so much that you'll fall far behind a haste build, its strength really comes from making your CD's that much stronger, which honestly thats what the spec is about at the moment. certain fights it will perform very well, and others your better off going with haste. i'd say its just up to preference honestly, if you have atleast ~545 ilvl. managing the exo debuff is how ive always handled it, the uptime difference is not noticeable. still the basic CS>judge>exo rotation if the debuff is up, if not exo>CS>judge.

Yeah I played with the full mastery build for a bit, before I went back to haste, just to ensure clean farm kills(was about a month ago). It pretty much just feels like playing with the amount of haste you had last teir. It makes you much, much more bursty, and really puts emphasis on you getting a good opener+good wings throughout the fight. It shines on cleave fights(ofc). I'm considering trying it again for these last few weeks of farm.

[Killmour]

The playstyle isn't very different, the rotation is slightly slower - but not by as much as one might think. you wont find yourself sitting on your hands much, if at all, perhaps only once every 15-20 seconds will you have a wait period longer than say, a second (on average). i opted for the 30.1-30.4% haste range to allow for the 13th 'tick' of hammer of wrath while under the effects of SW, since you only really receive the 14th tick at 40% haste. i found it best to stack mastery for the opening burst and following CD cycles. your sustained dps will drop a bit, not so much that you'll fall far behind a haste build, its strength really comes from making your CD's that much stronger, which honestly thats what the spec is about at the moment. certain fights it will perform very well, and others your better off going with haste. i'd say its just up to preference honestly, if you have atleast ~545 ilvl. managing the exo debuff is how ive always handled it, the uptime difference is not noticeable. still the basic CS>judge>exo rotation if the debuff is up, if not exo>CS>judge.

Haste is still better for single targets. It's important to separate what damage is important for whichever fight you are doing. If you are parse hunting during progression you are not doing your raid any favors, you should be doing whatever does the most damage to whatever needs it the most. Sometimes that is aoe damage, but some times it is not. For instance, when we were progressing on Lei shen, we were killing ball lightnings in less than two globals. It wasn't worth it for me to re-gem and re gear myself for aoeing since my damage on the ball's really did not matter. What mattered was my damage on the boss.

[Solsacra]

Haste is still better for single targets. It's important to separate what damage is important for whichever fight you are doing. If you are parse hunting during progression you are not doing your raid any favors, you should be doing whatever does the most damage to whatever needs it the most. Sometimes that is aoe damage, but some times it is not. For instance, when we were progressing on Lei shen, we were killing ball lightnings in less than two globals. It wasn't worth it for me to re-gem and re gear myself for aoeing since my damage on the ball's really did not matter. What mattered was my damage on the boss.

That is basic knowledge, i wouldn't want someone padding needlessly in my raid group either, the point, is that what you said is just that. putting the damage where it matters(i only started doing this six weeks ago, well into farm where bosses are facerollable anyway). there is so many factors that could swing the favour in one direction or the other. what this is, is just a proof of concept per se, that mastery can compete when needed in other fields. that's it. this is something for those of us serious about progression that will need to keep in mind with the coming tier.

[Mcbenchpress]

It seems like were all on the same page here (at least in regards to ToT): Haste is more reliable, but mastery shines for AoE and parse gaming. Now, I haven't been really parse chasing this tier due to RPPM fuckery, so I've stuck to haste in pretty much every scenario. With that said, it probably doesnt hurt to prepare ourselves for the inevitable swap to a mastery build for T16, and with Solsacra's info we can go in informed at the very least. Granted, haste builds can reliably produce more single target damage in most scenarios (arguable though), its probably too early to say how the rest of the raid will fare on add/AoE scenarios. Probably the best thing we can all take home here is to play it on a guild-to-guild basis and run with what works best for your group. (read: how many warlocks does your guild have).

[Revvo]

It seems like were all on the same page here (at least in regards to ToT): Haste is more reliable, but mastery shines for AoE and parse gaming. Now, I haven't been really parse chasing this tier due to RPPM fuckery, so I've stuck to haste in pretty much every scenario. With that said, it probably doesnt hurt to prepare ourselves for the inevitable swap to a mastery build for T16, and with Solsacra's info we can go in informed at the very least. Granted, haste builds can reliably produce more single target damage in most scenarios (arguable though), its probably too early to say how the rest of the raid will fare on add/AoE scenarios. Probably the best thing we can all take home here is to play it on a guild-to-guild basis and run with what works best for your group. (read: how many warlocks does your guild have).

Not to mention RPPM changes lowers the value on haste as well.

EDIT: PS Sol, I like your transmog

[Fabulicious]

Hi, changed my professions from BS/Alch to BS/Eng. I wonder when I should use the gloves? Should I macro it with ES?

thanks!